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How hyped are you?

  • A little hyped

    Votes: 98 15.7%
  • A lot of hyped

    Votes: 50 8.0%
  • WALNUUUUUTSSSSS

    Votes: 222 35.5%
  • Hyped enough to eat this whole bag of walnuts

    Votes: 63 10.1%
  • Hyped enough to bite this moose

    Votes: 37 5.9%
  • Hyped enough to scramble a dozen eggs

    Votes: 39 6.2%
  • Hyped enough to be even more hyped, like, cyclical or something

    Votes: 116 18.6%

  • Total voters
    625
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chowyunfatt

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
333
Oh my! some of the things brought up over and over are quite amusing, it's like arguing is the sky blue.. well it it BUT not always the same blue.
Some funny stuff. I only hope Sony releases some info soon for a lot of people's sake, I couldn't care when it is but I'm sure some here are seriously going to have mental breakdowns, or even worse before it's over.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
806
An odd number of SEs other than 1 is very uncommon. I don't know a single product that comes with 3 SEs. It is usually 1, 2, 4.
I mean currently do we even have a product that has more than 2 shader engines as AMD calls them? I'm pretty sure every GCN and Navi chip using the SE architecture has only 1 or 2 at this point.....

As I've learned in this thread, never say never. I was almost certain we were talking about RDNA1 with some RDNA2 features for next gen consoles (because AMD has RDNA2 tied to 7nm+ on their Rosanne roadmap slides). Lo and behold we have confirmed RDNA2 for Xbox. A year and a half ago I thought there was no way we were getting PCI-E gen4 NVME SSDs in the next gen consoles, but it turns out I was wrong. Never say never!
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
I mean currently do we even have a product that has more than 2 shader engines as AMD calls them? I'm pretty sure every GCN and Navi chip using the SE architecture has only 1 or 2 at this point.....

As I've learned in this thread, never say never. I was almost certain we were talking about RDNA1 with some RDNA2 features for next gen consoles (because AMD has RDNA2 tied to 7nm+ on their Rosanne roadmap slides). Lo and behold we have confirmed RDNA2 for Xbox. A year and a half ago I thought there was no way we were getting PCI-E gen4 NVME SSDs in the next gen consoles, but it turns out I was wrong. Never say never!
Xbox One X has 4 SEs for instance
 
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Adum

Member
May 30, 2019
925
As I've learned in this thread, never say never. I was almost certain we were talking about RDNA1 with some RDNA2 features for next gen consoles (because AMD has RDNA2 tied to 7nm+ on their Rosanne roadmap slides). Lo and behold we have confirmed RDNA2 for Xbox. A year and a half ago I thought there was no way we were getting PCI-E gen4 NVME SSDs in the next gen consoles, but it turns out I was wrong. Never say never!
Don't forget that before the leaks happened many here were skeptical of next-gen consoles having even Vega64 tier performance.
 

Vaizard

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
294
Hopefully, we will get a clearer picture of what is happening with the Cornavirus in 3 more months and how it's going to affect the consoles.

Tier 2 here we come!

Really hope for some news soon. Looking forward towards some real tech discussions instead of this he sa(i)d/she sa(i)d bickering. Though still amusing =)
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
XSX should have 3 SEs though. With 2(4) CUs disabled. Otherwise they would need to disable 12 Cus for the 56 CUs they work with. Or am I completely out of touch right now ?
I expect XSX to have a 56/64 CU setup with 2 SEs. Why I think that? Because the calculated size of such chip would fit into the range of what was measured based on the chip image from Phil Spencer. If you go 4 SEs for instance, the chip gets too big especially with a 320-bit memory bus.

Edit:
Doesn't mean it has to be the case. Those calculations are all based on PC GPUs. They of course do not incorporate any customizations like reducing / adding cache. That said, a 3 SE setup doesn't make sense especially in the wake of BC for Xbox One. Those consoles has 2 SEs or 4 SEs (Xbox One X is the latter).
 
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TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
This year would be the best year to go to E3 as a participant of Xbox Fanfest. Why corona why ;-;
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Xbox One X has 4 SEs for instance

XSX should have 3 SEs though. With 2(4) CUs disabled. Otherwise they would need to disable 12 Cus for the 56 CUs they work with. Or am I completely out of touch right now ?

Xsx has 2 SEs (64 ROPS) according to AMD test docs. Idk about X1x, but I think pretty sure it's 2 SEs (32 ROPs). EDIT: See Colbert's post.

Total number of CUs in a 2 SE Navi GPU needs to be a multiple of 8, since there are 4 shader arrays with same number of WGPs (active or inactive), and then each WGP has 2 CUs.

I.e.
Navi 10: 40
Xsx: 64 (56 enabled). Could be 56 on chip with all enabled, but I doubt that'll be the case for yield purposes.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
Xsx has 2 SEs (64 ROPS) according to AMD test docs. Idk about X1x, but I think pretty sure it's the same.

Total number of CUs in a 2 SE console in RDNA / 2 needs to be a multiple of 8, since there are 4 shader arrays with same number of WGPs (active or inactive), and then each WGP has 2 CUs.

I.e.
Navi 10: 40
Xsx: 64 (56 enabled). Could be 56 on chip with all enabled, but I doubt that'll be the case for yield purposes.
Xbox One X has 4 Shader Engines a 10 CUs.
 
Sep 19, 2019
2,273
Hamburg- Germany
I expect XSX to have a 56/64 CU setup with 2 SEs. Why I think that? Because the calculated size of such chip would fit into the range of what was measured based on the chip image from Phil Spencer. If you go 4 SEs for instance, the chip gets too big especially with a 320-bit memory bus.

Edit:
Doesn't mean it has to be the case. Those calculations are all based on PC GPUs. They of course do not incorporate any customizations like reducing / adding cache. That said, a 3 SE setup doesn't make sense especially in the wake of BC for Xbox One. Those consoles has 2 SEs or 4 SEs (Xbox One X is the latter).

That makes sense for sure was just thinking that 4 SEs would be definitvely too much and 2 SEs with so many CUs doesn't exists currently iirc.

Do you think RDNA 2 could introduce triple Cus ? Then 2 SEs would be the perfect match.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
This like needs to be threadmarked :-)
This is a very nice post. Everyone always thinks that everything is going to be the same, but just because they have similar foundations doesn't mean that they are both the same. Look at PS4 Pro vs Xbox One X, they had a lot of similar things, but at the end of the day it was clear that they were very different.


What about DrKeo post refuted my question? They could have used the rx 5700 as a building base....So again why didn't they? If you are going to take Dr.Keo words as gospel than... You are also going to take his github bible as your book of choice. So 36cu at 2000ghz.... Why not take a design that they, AMD, is already creating and take that as your base and safe even more money?

Question- how old are you? They are going to do it the way they have always done it.... First the hardcore than when the system gets cheaper the casuals will buy it.. Like every gen before this one.....
As I've said 500 times in the past, the Github leak is messy enough for there being more than 36 CU. IMO it's either 36 or 54, but I'm not even sure 3 SEs is possible.

[unrelated to the rest of your point] Are you sure they license IP blocks from AMD then put together(design) the SoC themselves? I knew MS kinda of did that with Xbox 360 Slim, but I'd imagine newer console SoCs be more integrated, hence it should be Sony/MS make the specification then AMD builds it for them.
Maybe I wasn't clear, I don't think they put together the soc themselves, they probably have a dedicated AMD team that designs the soc with them in a long collaboration process.

An odd number of SEs other than 1 is very uncommon. I don't know a single product that comes with 3 SEs. It is usually 1, 2, 4.
Avatar is back, where is the cheesecake?
Regarding SEs, I'm not sure what RDNA 2 will look like, so who knows if 3 SEs is possible or not. If we were still in GCN era, the XSX would have needed 4 SE, but with RDNA they can use 2. Maybe 3 are possible with RDNA.

XSX should have 3 SEs though. With 2(4) CUs disabled. Otherwise they would need to disable 12 Cus for the 56 CUs they work with. Or am I completely out of touch right now ?
If they want to disable CUs for yields, the minimum will be 2 X #SEs. So if they have 3 SEs, it will be at a minimum of 6 CUs disabled (and always divisible by 2 x #SEs).

I expect XSX to have a 56/64 CU setup with 2 SEs. Why I think that? Because the calculated size of such chip would fit into the range of what was measured based on the chip image from Phil Spencer. If you go 4 SEs for instance, the chip gets too big especially with a 320-bit memory bus.

Edit:
Doesn't mean it has to be the case. Those calculations are all based on PC GPUs. They of course do not incorporate any customizations like reducing / adding cache. That said, a 3 SE setup doesn't make sense especially in the wake of BC for Xbox One. Those consoles has 2 SEs or 4 SEs (Xbox One X is the latter).
Github already showed us 2 SEs (64 ROPS) :)
 

Mitchman1411

Member
Jul 28, 2018
635
Oslo, Norway
I'm almost positive PS5 won't be using RDNA ray tracing, mainly because AMD's RT solution is likely to be designed with DXR in mind.
Not saying that it definitely won't be adopted by Sony. But Sony's proprietary API would be in disadvantage, imho.
So I wanna see what Sony brings to the table.
DXR is also proprietary for MS. It's just an API, if it does the job, it's fine. GNM is just extended with RT, it's well known and familiar for developers by now having been used in the PS4 too.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Yo that avatar got me crying laughing 😂
Honestly though I dont really mind, its pretty damn funny.

Im more concerned that I didnt get a reveal of the PS5 on my birthday which would have been great.
What is with that guy's hair. That can't have ever been in fashion, and I'm kinda confused by the sheer physics of how it retains that shape.
Never heard of the guy before so it was quite the shock to me too :D
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
Hmm, It could be my middle aged mind playing tricks on me but I'm sure that inclusion of achievements were one of the things Microsoft insisted on as part of Xbox 360 games dev? I never worked on the design side so I'm not 100% sure.
Ah yeah, it was mandatory. But games became more creative with them , post-crackdown.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
Haha thanks. It is so hard to keep on track sometimes. This thread just moves too fast recently and "important" stuff often gets overlooked.

I have a good feeling once the specs will be revealed for both consoles you will feel very satisfied Colbert . ;)
I actually did not know that either that it was derivable from Github (or I forgot it - old man lol). Always nice to see things add up from different angles (die size calc and github in this case).

I already feel satisfied with both consoles and the expected specs. The good thing is, it only can get better if I am wrong with the PS5.
 

Deleted member 27551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
660
I actually did not know that either that it was derivable from Github (or I forgot it - old man lol). Always nice to see things add up from different angles (die size calc and github in this case).

I already feel satisfied with both consoles and the expected specs. The good thing is, it only can get better if I am wrong with the PS5.
This is how i see it with I'm satisfied with the specs and it's a bonus if ps5 is a little more powerful than the github suggests.
Honestly I'm kinda hoping it is that because if it's very close to the series X or a bit better I'm not sure I'd buy the xbox. I'm pretty much looking for an excuse to buy it as just love that new console feel.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
I should say, for clarity, the article didn't give detailed first hand impressions of the triggers specifically, but did say:



It then went on to give more extensive hands-on impressions of the grip rumble specifically rather than the triggers, but the trigger functionality wrt varying resistance was confirmed.
Really curious to see how this works in practice.

For instance say that you are playing one of those shooters where the weapon can jam. In this case the trigger would put up so much tension that you can't even press the button?

Or in the example of a bow, would they get rid of the timing mechanic where the char pulls the arrow and just make it harder for you to pull the trigger, but once you do the arrow can shoot instantly?
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
Really curious to see how this works in practice.

For instance say that you are playing one of those shooters where the weapon can jam. In this case the trigger would put up so much tension that you can't even press the button?

That relates to the 'stopping distance' thing I mentioned. In the patents there's a mechanism to push the back 'stopper' to any point along the trigger's travel. So that, yes, you can 'stop' the trigger being pushed at some point. Or you could say, stop it half-way, and then when the user is applying a certain level of pressure, release it suddenly, to give a sense of something breaking. Or stop it at a certain point to indicate distance to a hit (e.g. if you're swinging a sword with R2, you could stop the travel of the trigger depending on when the blade hits something. If you swing through without hitting anything the trigger would just travel all the way down - in that way, communicating spatial relationships through the trigger). Or even use the stopper to apply pressure in reverse direction of the trigger's travel - so, like in one example, you could simulate the controller being full of liquid, so when you squeeze down on the trigger on the left side, the 'liquid' pressure increases on the other side and pushes the right trigger up and out, and vice versa.

An actual 'dead-stop' stopping mechanism that prevents travel or even can move the trigger back out to another programmed position adds so much that I'm deathly curious to see it confirmed in real impressions. The Wired article did not, nor did it preclude it either. I'm really hopeful it's there.

Otherwise, it'd be a case of varying resistance on the way down the travel of the trigger, but whether the resistance could actually be so strong to stop trigger travel without that adjustable stopper, I'm not sure.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
It seems weird to me, that they would already delay the launch, before they know if there are supply constraints or not.

I don't know about that tweet, but if factories are x weeks behind schedule with no sign of improvement, is it not conceivable that they know certain deadlines are blown now, without actually being in Q2?

I think it's at least very conceivable that they're having to wargame out a delay scenario now, and/or are delaying reveal marketing until things are clearer.
 
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