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How hyped are you?

  • A little hyped

    Votes: 98 15.7%
  • A lot of hyped

    Votes: 50 8.0%
  • WALNUUUUUTSSSSS

    Votes: 222 35.5%
  • Hyped enough to eat this whole bag of walnuts

    Votes: 63 10.1%
  • Hyped enough to bite this moose

    Votes: 37 5.9%
  • Hyped enough to scramble a dozen eggs

    Votes: 39 6.2%
  • Hyped enough to be even more hyped, like, cyclical or something

    Votes: 116 18.6%

  • Total voters
    625
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Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
Sorry if already posted but it's looking like E3 might be cancelled too.

Yeahh sadly was to be expected, however I still think that we will get to see something like maybe streams without crowds or hands on. Companies already invested money into preparing for it so might as well have a person on stage do a presentation to camera without audience.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,399
Yeahh sadly was to be expected, however I still think that we will get to see something like maybe streams without crowds or hands on. Companies already invested money into preparing for it so might as well have a person on stage do a presentation to camera without audience.

If E3 is cancelled it would be cancelled for everyone the whole point is people shouldn't be traveling and gathering with people from different parts of the world and then traveling back.

Studios will still have announcements to show so I'm sure there will be direct style videos to be apart of but there no point for anyone to travel to LA to do so.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,583
Can someone give me a cool gameplay example that would use adaptive force feedback triggers?

Here you go:

www.wired.com

Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5

Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.



More infos here :

blog.us.playstation.com

An Update on Next-Gen: PlayStation 5 Launches Holiday 2020

Featuring a new controller with haptic technology and adaptive triggers.

www.resetera.com

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT6| - Mostly Fan Noise and Hot Air

Now that PS5 is confirmed for next Holiday, I'll need every ounce of willpower I can summon to keep myself from buying a PS4 Pro. I'm gonna want it for FFVII Remake and TLOU Part II, but I don't need it...



Shooting bows will have diffeernt levels of resistances than shooting with a shotgun.

Also you can think of fishing games where you feel the strength of a bigger fish pulling you away and you have to push the triggers harder and if coupled well with the motion control shaking it like you shake the rod to pull it back plus the new haptic vibration you feel as if you were really fishing.

Another example is like sword battle and boss battles so when an enemy clashes his sword against yours and you have to mash QTE button frantically to liberate yourself from the grip of the higher pushing force of the enemy, it will be more realistic to push the button harder to get the advantage over him.
 
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Dashful

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,399
Canada
I know, and I said that it doesn't make sense, but series x is one of two systems and is a premium system aimed at hardcore crowd willing to pay premium price, Sony can't do that with a single console, they have to account for casuals too. It's really unnecessary to increase price per console for marginal performance increase.

...

MS chose to go with two systems one for casuals cheaper and weaker and one for hardcore expensive and more powerful, sony has to do middle to accommodate both crowds. Matt himself said "xbox targeting one system would look different than one targeting two systems"
Funny I don't recall MS actually announcing a second weaker system. 🤔
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
If E3 is cancelled it would be cancelled for everyone the whole point is people shouldn't be traveling and gathering with people from different parts of the world and then traveling back.

Studios will still have announcements to show so I'm sure there will be direct style videos to be apart of but there no point for anyone to travel to LA to do so.
Yeah I didn't mean on stage in LA, should of been more clear. Meant it like stage or w/e in their own presentation places.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Read Drkeos post above because things don't just magically work like that.

I'm basing everything with price target in mind and what they did with PS4 to keep price down and what targeting high price console did to PS3.

Some others are basing their thought process on wishful thinking or just lack of sense how things work, but DrKeo put it perfectly so read that then keep price in mind and whom they are trying to target with one system and then look at the competition and think about whom each of the two systems is targeting and what was possible to get for that money.

Something like for example MS releasing xbox one x as premium console and xbox one s as mainstream console, with price in mind and target audience and one system do you think Sony would go with PS4 Pro design or would they push it like xbox one x? (series x is even more ambitious than one x was) One system has to accommodate casual crowd as well as hardcore, if you price too high you lose casuals to competition, you can only absorb so much per console loss so why unnecessarily increase cost of that console for such little gain?

That's my thought process!
What about DrKeo post refuted my question? They could have used the rx 5700 as a building base....So again why didn't they? If you are going to take Dr.Keo words as gospel than... You are also going to take his github bible as your book of choice. So 36cu at 2000ghz.... Why not take a design that they, AMD, is already creating and take that as your base and safe save, :), even more money?

Question- how old are you? They are going to do it the way they have always done it.... First the hardcore than when the system gets cheaper the casuals will buy it.. Like every gen before this one.....
 
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anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
I guess if you ignore 99% of what he said and cherry pick a handful of words you can come to that conclusion.
Cherry picking is the reason he was pestered to comment in the first place. People were reading too much into the AMD statement, causing the line of questioning toward him. But I could see how you could miss that implication in my statement if you cherry pick.
Didn't Klee also state that RT was different?
We already knew Sony was interested in photon mapping. That doesn't necessarily mean the HW is different. Sony using non-standard HW violates Occam's Razor.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
I guess if you ignore 99% of what he said and cherry pick a handful of words you can come to that conclusion.

Didn't Klee also state that RT was different?
No.....you are mixing up people... I don't remember the magazine/website that said that... It's in one of the OT
So leaks are only worth something if they fit your narrative. Got it.
Your new avatar is messing me up!!!
Thats what we got to look forward to huh.

I'll pray for the forum once all the specs are revealed for both consoles.
It's going to get much worse...... You never been to hell have you...... Let me tell you all about my adventure into the.......to be continued! remake 2 will come out soon. see you then :P
shinjilaughing.jpg
 
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AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
what did you all eat for dinner tonight? chipotle or some shit?

this thread is super spicy tonight. gloves are coming off.

i love it.
 

褲蓋Calo

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 1, 2020
781
Shenzhen, China
Thing is, AMD doesn't offer Sony and MS a product. It's not like "here is a 5700, there is a 5800, and that's the 5600, please choose one". AMD offers MS and Sony an architecture with all its available building blocks and methodologies, Sony and MS have their own engineering teams that build their own blocks or change existing ones AMD has offered them ("special sauce") and then, in a combined effort, Sony's/MS's engineering teams and AMD's engineering teams build a custom iGPU. That's why Cerny's job is so important, he isn't a shopper going around and selecting parts like a PC builder, he is part of an engineering team that is designing an actual GPU. So it's not like AMD gives both different products, AMD provides a platform and services for MS and Sony to build their own GPU. If a console's GPU sounds similar to an existing AMD GPU because it has the same CU count, it's just a coincidence, they are different products.
[unrelated to the rest of your point] Are you sure they license IP blocks from AMD then put together(design) the SoC themselves? I knew MS kinda of did that with Xbox 360 Slim, but I'd imagine newer console SoCs be more integrated, hence it should be Sony/MS make the specification then AMD builds it for them.
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
What about DrKeo post refuted my question? They could have used the rx 5700 as a building base....So again why didn't they? If you are going to take Dr.Keo words as gospel than... You are also going to take his github bible as your book of choice. So 36cu at 2000ghz.... Why not take a design that they, AMD, is already creating and take that as your base and safe even more money?

Question- how old are you? They are going to do it the way they have always done it.... First the hardcore than when the system gets cheaper the casuals will buy it.. Like every gen before this one.....
You don't just take a gpu and slap things on it, and 36cu would be like using 5700xt architecture RDNA1 and slapping RT to it. They already have to design the chip doesn't matter on what architecture it's based on. You are just looking at short term of cost to design, what about cost to produce each chip? RDNA2 would be lot more expensive for same mm^2 for each chip made.

Github data is hard fact data at that point in time, RT wasn't tested on the chip and that's it in my opinion. Based on Albert Panello, person who actually went through console design/release cycle, saying that chip couldn't drastically change in that amount of time I'll bite. Even though it sounds like a ridiculous idea to us we do not know the reasoning behind why they would go with such a design.

I'm 35, been through quite a few of these! True, but 7nm+ is a new process that AMD is going for, typically consoles release at process that is cheaper and when newer ones are well established and price reduced they jump on it. Going straight to 7nm+ would mean going for the highest price and waiting a long time for price to come down. Besides don't you think that Sony is afraid of PS3 repeat? Besides, the journalist of the original article that you guys said confirms RDNA2 and RT said exactly same thing as what I have been saying.
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
Cherry picking is the reason he was pestered to comment in the first place. People were reading too much into the AMD statement, causing the line of questioning toward him. But I could see how you could miss that implication in my statement if you cherry pick.

We already knew Sony was interested in photon mapping. That doesn't necessarily mean the HW is different. Sony using non-standard HW violates Occam's Razor.
Reading too much into a statement? "As publicly known both next gen consoles are powered by Radeon and have hardware RT" to you equals RDNA2 architecture confirmation and that it was already public knowledge? LOL

The Journalist said that AMD has not confirmed anything regarding RDNA1 or 2 or using AMD RT, which is exactly what Engineer said, only certain people were looking to connect one segment with the other to come up with "confirmation".

You invoked Klee to show how he confirmed it, but ignored how he also said that RT is different in the two.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I'm basing everything with price target in mind and what they did with PS4 to keep price down and what targeting high price console did to PS3.
but why? has someone told you that sony is targeting $399? you seem to be pretty certain that sony is going with $399 when all the evidence is pointing to a high $450 bom. there was a bloomberg article that mentioned it and then zhuge said he heard something similar. thats not a $399 console. thats a $499 console. $450 if they are willing to sell for a $70-100 loss.

if they were trying to copy their ps4 strategy, they wouldve released this thing with a bom of $381. even then they had to take a $60 loss because the retailer cut and distribution costs were around $80. i would imagine, a $450 bom would have the same $80 surcharge minimum. why would sony sell a $530 ps5 for $399?
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
So leaks are only worth something if they fit your narrative. Got it.
When did I say that credible leaks are not worth it if they don't fit my narrative? You are calling people completely misinterpreting what was said in plain language some leak? Did you also look at the twittet from the journalist who wrote the original article about it? He said exactly same thing that I have been saying.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,671
We already knew Sony was interested in photon mapping. That doesn't necessarily mean the HW is different. Sony using non-standard HW violates Occam's Razor.

This is an important statement for people to understand. Going forward, there is little financial incentive to be too divergent from the core AMD architecture, as this will hamper future backwards compatibility functionality.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
You don't just take a gpu and slap things on it, and 36cu would be like using 5700xt architecture RDNA1 and slapping RT to it. They already have to design the chip doesn't matter on what architecture it's based on. You are just looking at short term of cost to design, what about cost to produce each chip? RDNA2 would be lot more expensive for same mm^2 for each chip made.

Github data is hard fact data at that point in time, RT wasn't tested on the chip and that's it in my opinion. Based on Albert Panello, person who actually went through console design/release cycle, saying that chip couldn't drastically change in that amount of time I'll bite. Even though it sounds like a ridiculous idea to us we do not know the reasoning behind why they would go with such a design.

I'm 35, been through quite a few of these! True, but 7nm+ is a new process that AMD is going for, typically consoles release at process that is cheaper and when newer ones are well established and price reduced they jump on it. Going straight to 7nm+ would mean going for the highest price and waiting a long time for price to come down. Besides don't you think that Sony is afraid of PS3 repeat? Besides, the journalist of the original article that you guys said confirms RDNA2 and RT said exactly same thing as what I have been saying.
First paragraph: Not what i said......Also talking about cost. Lucky for Sony that their worst selling console is still a pretty good number ;) So they are going to be alright if the system is a bit over the "normal" price lol :D

Second Paragraph: No one said otherwise! But acting like its telling all the story instead of part of the story is weird as hell. Sure for MS he did and it is valuable information but that doesn't mean that he knows when or why Sony decided to delay PS5 and if they could have changed the system.. He said about 18months or so. Luckily people are saying the decission to delay it happend in 2017.... enough time to redesign if that actually happen :)

Third Paragraph: No i don't think so. Fear is never a good advice partner. You just need to calculate the risk involved with it and not go bath shit crazy :). But all of your assumptions are: Sony does not want to spend money and does not know how to create a system and that they are bound by a 399 system... I think both are going to be 499,99euro.
 
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CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,611
Texas
I'm not mega familiar with the switch to be honest, I'm not sure what unique things games tend to use ,

but If I were to guess...
There are less specifics to deal with overall thanks to messaging and parties and whatnot being bare bones, this
Some of the games being designed / ported with mobile in mind which have touchscreens and gyros by default.
Smaller porting houses a singular focus on porting to switch with staff who have a lot of love for the Nintendo hardware.


A friend of mine worked for a dev back in the 360 days and I remember him telling me that his colleagues simply did not understand what achievements were and how games were using them, he had to fight really hard to get the game he was working on to have anything beyond finish level 1 , finish level 2 , complete the campaign on hard.

Perhaps there is still an awareness component that prevents these things happening.

Thanks for the perspective. I'm excited for the new DS5 features for what I *KNOW* their first party will be bringing to the table but it sure would be great if Sony could find a way to motivate third parties to take advantage of those things too.

Hell, I was playing Stardew Valley on Vita today and was bummed by how minimum-effort the control scheme felt. Didn't even make use of the back pad or allow any options beyond cursor visibility.
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Yeah, I try not to depend on avatars to recognize people but it's hard sometimes. Had the Monster Boy one for a long time too.
I know it was beautiful.... I don't know... i usually first look at the avatar before looking at the name, makes it easier to skip certain people because sometimes they are annoying ;P
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
but why? has someone told you that sony is targeting $399? you seem to be pretty certain that sony is going with $399 when all the evidence is pointing to a high $450 bom. there was a bloomberg article that mentioned it and then zhuge said he heard something similar. thats not a $399 console. thats a $499 console. $450 if they are willing to sell for a $70-100 loss.

if they were trying to copy their ps4 strategy, they wouldve released this thing with a bom of $381. even then they had to take a $60 loss because the retailer cut and distribution costs were around $80. i would imagine, a $450 bom would have the same $80 surcharge minimum. why would sony sell a $530 ps5 for $399?
Just target audience and that article, that BOM increased to $450, while for xbox it was what $460-$520(that's $550-$600 console before increase in chip prices). If they release just one console at same price as MS high end console and Lockheart comes out they are screwed. That's why it wouldn't make sense to me.

Didn't someone also do the math according to leaked size of the chip and came up with it being like $30-$40 more expensive on 7nm than PS4 chip was, on 7nm+ if would be even more than that.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,903
Montreal
Just target audience and that article, that BOM increased to $450, while for xbox it was what $460-$520(that's $550-$600 console before increase in chip prices). If they release just one console at same price as MS high end console and Lockheart comes out they are screwed. That's why it wouldn't make sense to me.

Didn't someone also do the math according to leaked size of the chip and came up with it being like $30-$40 more expensive on 7nm than PS4 chip was, on 7nm+ if would be even more than that.

You seem to be talking in a lot of absolutes about things that are far from absolute. The BOM article had a few very questionable errors in it that made it not the most accurate thing in the world and Sony is far from "screwed" if their high-end console costs the same as Microsoft. Also, your margins are not realistic, as console makers can take a loss on hardware and you are grossly overinflating chip price increases.

I.e. Nothing you are saying has basis in reality.
 

Shambala

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,537
You seem to be talking in a lot of absolutes about things that are far from absolute. The BOM article had a few very questionable errors in it that made it not the most accurate thing in the world and Sony is far from "screwed" if their high-end console costs the same as Microsoft. Also, your margins are not realistic, as console makers can take a loss on hardware and you are grossly overinflating chip price increases.

I.e. Nothing you are saying has basis in reality.
I gave up trying to reason with the poster you replied to. I just reply with emojis 😂. Your post sums up my exact thoughts.
 
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