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PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
- Start date
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It's not a question of if Google will shut down Stadia, but when they shut down Stadia, IMHO.
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The controller (which history suggests will one day be called the DualShock 5, though Cerny just says "it doesn't have a name yet") does have some features Cerny's more interested in acknowledging. One is "adaptive triggers" that can offer varying levels of resistance to make shooting a bow and arrow feel like the real thing—the tension increasing as you pull the arrow back—or make a machine gun feel far different from a shotgun. It also boasts haptic feedback far more capable than the rumble motor console gamers are used to, with highly programmable voice-coil actuators located in the left and right grips of the controller.
Combined with an improved speaker on the controller, the haptics can enable some astonishing effects. First, I play through a series of short demos, courtesy of the same Japan Studio team that designed PlayStation VR's Astro Bot Rescue Mission. In the most impressive, I ran a character through a platform level featuring a number of different surfaces, all of which gave distinct—and surprisingly immersive—tactile experiences. Sand felt slow and sloggy; mud felt slow and soggy. On ice, a high-frequency response made the thumbsticks really feel like my character was gliding. Jumping into a pool, I got a sense of the resistance of the water; on a wooden bridge, a bouncy sensation.
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Exclusive: A Deeper Look at the PlayStation 5
Now that the name is official, we've got more details about Sony's next-gen console—from the haptics-packed controller to UI improvements.www.wired.com
Force feedback for triggers, and two new highly precise vibration motors, connected to analogue sticks.
It looks like we are loosing the full blown "entire controller is vibrating" rumble, but we are getting transformative new tech that can directly impact the gameplay [or at least, offer better immersion].
Here's my updated specs (or wishful thinking I guess) of next gen:
PS5:
CPU: Zen 2 8C/16T @3.4Ghz,32MB L3
GPU: RDNA2 Navi based [email protected] 9.2TF,HW RT+VRS (call it however you want I still bet Sony's api will have some version of it)
RAM: Unified 16GB GDDR6 with 576 GB/S BW
SSD: Heavily customized with RW speeds >5000 MB/S
I/O: 1x HDMI 2.1,3x USB 3.2 Gen 2, 1x USB Type-C with Virtual Link support for easy PSVR 2 connection
MIsc: Wi-Fi 6,Bluetooth 5.0
Price: 499$,really can't see it being lower honestly.
Series X:
CPU: Zen 2 8C/16T @3.6Ghz,32MB L3
GPU: RDNA2 Navi based [email protected] 12.2TF,HW RT+VRS
RAM: Unified 16GB GDDR6 with 576 GB/S BW
SSD: customized with RW speeds ~3500 MB/S
I/O: 1x HDMI 2.1,3x USB 3.2 Gen 2
MIsc: Wi-Fi 6,Bluetooth 5.0
Price:499$,can see MS taking bigger loss here than Sony
Hoping for a surprise in the GPU department of PS5,but I'll definitely be happy if the 2 machines will end up being something like what I speculated-
It will make it easy for me to use the PS5 as an exclusives machine only and the Series X for the rest,just like the 360/PS3 days.
PS5:
CPU: Zen 2 8C/16T @3.4Ghz,32MB L3
GPU: RDNA2 Navi based [email protected] 9.2TF,HW RT+VRS (call it however you want I still bet Sony's api will have some version of it)
RAM: Unified 16GB GDDR6 with 576 GB/S BW
SSD: Heavily customized with RW speeds >5000 MB/S
I/O: 1x HDMI 2.1,3x USB 3.2 Gen 2, 1x USB Type-C with Virtual Link support for easy PSVR 2 connection
MIsc: Wi-Fi 6,Bluetooth 5.0
Price: 499$,really can't see it being lower honestly.
Series X:
CPU: Zen 2 8C/16T @3.6Ghz,32MB L3
GPU: RDNA2 Navi based [email protected] 12.2TF,HW RT+VRS
RAM: Unified 16GB GDDR6 with 576 GB/S BW
SSD: customized with RW speeds ~3500 MB/S
I/O: 1x HDMI 2.1,3x USB 3.2 Gen 2
MIsc: Wi-Fi 6,Bluetooth 5.0
Price:499$,can see MS taking bigger loss here than Sony
Hoping for a surprise in the GPU department of PS5,but I'll definitely be happy if the 2 machines will end up being something like what I speculated-
It will make it easy for me to use the PS5 as an exclusives machine only and the Series X for the rest,just like the 360/PS3 days.
You can hear it.
In case you can't:
Cerny on the 2nd wired article:
Oh I know. Just thinking it is hilarious that people thought Sony would just go with a GPU that only has 36CU like the PS4Pro and no RT despite the fact that Sony repeatedly said the PS5 has RT.
It really is a given that PS5 would have VRS even if it's their own version, just as they have multithreading that was to be a big thing with DX12. As well as Tier2 RT.
These new hardware addons inside DS5 are also reason why DS4 will [IMO] not be supported for PS5 games.
In a new Rocksteady game, Batman can insert his hand into a safe lock and we can feel with the trigger the exact sweet spot for lockpicking. Also, the mere walking can inform us about the texture of the ground via vibration on thumbsticks. If Two Face leads blindfolded Bats across his hideout, we can later recreate the route by only remembering the thumbstick vibration of packed dirt, grass, freshly dug dirt, water puddles, etc.
On DS4, for all that we would only get crude rumble vibrations or audio/visual cues.
Since we entered March already. I think Sony's plan was and is to reveal the PS5 one day before or after Microsofts E3 Press Conference. Not sure if it will be a State of Play or in a building, but that's the only reasonable two dates I can come up with at this hour.
I'm not mega familiar with the switch to be honest, I'm not sure what unique things games tend to use ,
but If I were to guess...
There are less specifics to deal with overall thanks to messaging and parties and whatnot being bare bones, this
Some of the games being designed / ported with mobile in mind which have touchscreens and gyros by default.
Smaller porting houses a singular focus on porting to switch with staff who have a lot of love for the Nintendo hardware.
A friend of mine worked for a dev back in the 360 days and I remember him telling me that his colleagues simply did not understand what achievements were and how games were using them, he had to fight really hard to get the game he was working on to have anything beyond finish level 1 , finish level 2 , complete the campaign on hard.
Perhaps there is still an awareness component that prevents these things happening.
Hmm I just think it's extremely unlikely that Sony will use non-AMD solution for their hardware ray tracing.
Was Microsoft trying to throw out some kind of juke? Fake out?
This thread only had two pages when I opened it 😆😆😆
I hear it's public information already that both next gen consoles are powered by Radeon, not that they are both based on RDNA2.
Where does it say that RT is the sole feature of RDNA2 and that both consoles are based on RDNA2 as you are claiming?
Is it not possible for PS5 to have different RT solution and still use Radeon GPU? Or is it not possible for PS5 to use AMD RT and still be based on Navi(RDNA1), just as PS4 borrowed from GCN2? Didn't Klee mention that their RT is different?
What if Sony took AMD RT and made improvements to it and customized it in their own way?
Doesn't this guy say that things he just said are already public knowledge? Wether PS5 is based on RDNA1 or 2 is not public knowledge, so wouldn't those things contradict each other?
While everything you and others that say this is true...we are refuting:
Mark Cerny for ray tracing (not you or those that refute this clip, this is another subject altogether)
This AMD engineer saying RDNA 2 for both consoles.
It's just gonna be the same song n dance until Sony says RDNA or RDNA 2. Even then I know some folks will be like naw, let's wait for DF to do their breakdown.
I just wanna know if this is the case, what does that mean for the github data?
I 100% agree with you, but we don't know anything for sure as nothing has been confirmed. And if they are using AMD RT solution we don't know what the rest of the chip is based on or if they did any improvements to RT.
How dare you question the sanctity of github?
I would have thought it obvious when they say it is using Radeon and Native RT for both nextgen boxes that both Xbox and PS will be getting the same hardware but I guess we will have to wait for the words from the horses mouth to silence the naysayers.
Any racing video games.
Any game who wants to reproduce different trigger for each weapon.
Etc.
Ahhh I see, I believe that missconception is when he says "next gen" he's not talking about consoles, but saying next gen AMD RDNA aka RDNA2 has RT in it. And then says on other note we all know both consoles are powered by Radeon and have RT. (Didn't know that anyone was still refuting Sony having RT)
In order for PS5 GPU to be RDNA2 it would have to be based on that which includes entire architecture not just RT.
I personally see PS5 as being RDNA2 based as highly unlikely, first because of timelines and how uncertain it was if RDNA would even be ready for 2020. Second thing is higher cost of doing RDNA2 based than RDNA.
It doesn't mean anything for github data, just that RT wasn't tested in that data.
for me it's feedback on braking and pressing on the accelerator in driving games.
Hmm, It could be my middle aged mind playing tricks on me but I'm sure that inclusion of achievements were one of the things Microsoft insisted on as part of Xbox 360 games dev? I never worked on the design side so I'm not 100% sure.
We still have ot13 and ot14 to use it. No need to blow that one early. It's too good.
This may just not be the case this time around. If the adaptive triggers are as big a deal as I think they can be, a lot of games would want to get in oni because it would just become the best way to do certain things.
Time will tell I guess.
It's highly likely at this point that the PS5 uses RDNA2, regardless of what people say. Sony will have been aware, as were MS, of what AMD would have available in late 2020. It's basically they either spend a huge fortune on R&D for their own, customised RDNA1 chip with RT or they use a form of the chip that AMD was going to make anyway and take advantage of additional features. The only reason I can see them not going RDNA2 is if there were severe problems in development
Maybe but not worth believing any specs until Sony confirms it someday.
RT is not the only feature of RDNA2, simply having RT does not make PS5 have RDNA2.
Making a chip based on RDNA2 would surely be more expensive than based on RDNA1 with AMD RT added.
Wether RDNA2 would be ready for 2020 was very uncertain, even Navi was delayed, they were going to release console in 2019 and then changed their mind and made changes to the chip. Would it not be cheaper to add AMD or w/e RT instead of making entire new chip from scratch, and which do you think is more likely?
No, it would be far cheaper to use an AMD chip already capable of HW RT, in which case an RDNA2 chip is the most obvious solution; like I said, Sony would have been well aware of how far along RDNA2 chips were in development, just like MS, and the only reason to not go with that is if there were clear problems in development; this also discards the fact that Sony very much won the last time they gambled on future tech and that would heavily influence their decision.
Also, if Sony was planning to release the PS5 in 2019, they would have altered that plan a long time ago: IIRC Matt hinted at plans changing around 2017.
I like how you keep posting that Sony can't afford RDNA 2 and instead spent pointless R&D money (that AMD had already spent) to insert their RT tech inside RDNA 1. I don't even.
My head hurts.
I've been screaming for more Gyro support across PlayStation gaming for years.
It was awesome in the few Vita games that supported it. Getting headshots in UC:GA and Killzone were incredibly satisfying. I don't know why Sony haven't pushed it as an optional control scheme in all their first party games since every PS platform since PS3 has supported it. FYI - Vita gyro isn't used over remote play - for games that used DS4 Gyro either...
I think for some reason - devs seem to think it works only on portable systems - even though it works less well because you inevitably tilt the screen away from you and light interferes with visibility.
Although I recently saw Rushy tweet recently about MotorStorm Gyro controls - there was internal resistance to implementing it(even from him) but he was glad they did - as it allowed handicapped gamers to play. He didn't explain the internal resistance though.
Besides different guns having different levels of trigger resistance, they could let you customize like trigger sensitivity. Battlefield V for example let's you set how little or much you want to press L2 and R2 to aim and shoot. With the option of maxing resistance in tandem, you could have triggers behave like short pull buttons.
I won't name the developer but they are supporting stadia and there is a growing air of concern about the product. It's not just the game library and dev support that's the problem. Google should have done a proper beta run up instead of launching the beta.
If it's cheaper then why is PS4 based on GCn1 and using some of GCN2 features instead of just going full blown GCN2? Newer tech is more expensive and process shrink also increases the price further.
So you are saying it's cheaper building brand new chip from scratch with all the portions of the chip being newer and more expensive than using a chip you already designed and adding a single thing to it. Yes and in 2017 release time for full RDNA2 chip were uncertain, since even RDNA got delayed going full RDNA was risking delaying your console for the second time.
Didn't Klee also say that their RT is different, so if they are both based on the more expensive RDNA2 and using what is already available how are their RT solutions different then?
Also, both Ms and Sony knew that AMD would be working on 80CU unit, does that mean consoles will have that? How can you say for certain that they were both targeting same price?
Didn't Matt also say that xbox series x would be beefier if xbox series s is a thing, in other words a premium console and low budget console, does that mean Sony was just targeting a premium console and ignores 90% of the userbase?
Final Roll Call for Team 14 tflops. Who is with their captain?
Sony got no money for RDNA2? Didn't Sony cancel releasing in 2019 in 2017? That would make it a 3 year time frame to do other things. Do you really think Sony is that incapable of looking at the future and basing their decisions on that??
I feel like you are searching for any excuse that you can find to make sure that PS5 is not RDNA2.... I hope you are very wrong :D
The question has always been if the consoles would be RDNA2, or simply have some RDNA2 features bolted onto them.
Microsoft have since confirmed their console is RDNA2. We don't know which category Sony is in yet.
Where did I say that they can't afford it? I said it doesn't make sense to me for them or MS to do it, but MS will be having a premium and budget consoles gives them bigger and smaller BOM. It's not rocket science, that being based on RDNA2 every single chip would cost more to produce vs one time fee to add it onto a chip you already spent R&D money on instead of spending R&D money on brand new chip and every one of those chips costing more.
Again if it's cheaper to go newer tech then wby isn't Ps4 GCN2?
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