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How hyped are you?

  • A little hyped

    Votes: 98 15.7%
  • A lot of hyped

    Votes: 50 8.0%
  • WALNUUUUUTSSSSS

    Votes: 222 35.5%
  • Hyped enough to eat this whole bag of walnuts

    Votes: 63 10.1%
  • Hyped enough to bite this moose

    Votes: 37 5.9%
  • Hyped enough to scramble a dozen eggs

    Votes: 39 6.2%
  • Hyped enough to be even more hyped, like, cyclical or something

    Votes: 116 18.6%

  • Total voters
    625
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HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,157
A reveal doesn't mean they have to open up preorders. MS revealed the series x, but didn't open up for preorders either.

thats a good point.

i still dont think its a good idea to reveal the console without preorders, because you are wasting the boost you're gonna get from it. but assuming they are both gonna sell every console they are able to manufacture until launch, that may not be such a big deal.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,700
Tokyo
Because the BOM on that would be higher than the XBOX One X and the die size would be larger. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely. Unless you're into $599.99 USD.

Unless Sony gets some crazy new deal on RAM I am going to say it is impossible to get those specs with the BOM being $450. However, that is if the BOM is $450, could be more we don't know. I am wondering how much their specialized SSD is going to cost them.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,861
OK.

Well, believe whatever you want to believe then. The reason why we even mentioned the Jag kit in a video was not just for "shits and giggles" or to spread negative rumours for no reason.
But for?

You can believe whatever you want to as well, it can sounds completely ridiculous but be actually be true. Just like your jaguar kit claims.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,376
Unless Sony gets some crazy new deal on RAM I am going to say it is impossible to get those specs with the BOM being $450. However, that is if the BOM is $450, could be more we don't know. I am wondering how much their specialized SSD is going to cost them.
The SSD speed is the most interesting to me & no one seems to be talking about it at all, 9 tf vs 12 tf not so much, because it's going to come down to 1800p vs 4K, with people pretending the difference is huge.
MS out here shadow boxing and flexing while Sony takes their time to stroll to the ring when they're ready.


The great console war hype 😂😂
is Microsoft gonna end up like the white guy at the end of that movie lol.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,700
Tokyo
The SSD speed is the most interesting to me & no one seems to be talking about it at all, 9 tf vs 12 tf not so much, because it's going to come down to 1800p vs 4K, with people pretending the difference is huge.

is Microsoft gonna end up like the white guy at the end of that movie lol.

The SSD is what most devs have been raving about too. People are loving it. I wonder how much of a game changer it will actually be. I know load times will drastically decrease but also assist streaming ability for games could overall improve. If Spider-man only had 20mb/s of memory for graphic streaming, and it looked and play amazing, I wonder how much it can improve with simply double the amount.
 

Brees2Thomas

Member
Dec 27, 2019
1,525
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rumors suggest 16GB GDDR6 memory. To achieve that there are two options: a 256-bit bus with 2GB chips, or a 512-bit bus with 1GB chips. That's either 72 or 144mm^2. The rumor also specifies 96 ROPs, which is 32 less than present in four full SE frontends. They must be subtracted out, leaving 109.9mm^2 for frontends and the GPU common core. It seems to me that core might need to be bigger for such a large chip, though, with a more parallel scheduler, more ACES, etc. If I'm incorrect here let me know, but this may add back 7.8mm^2. Finally there's the I/O, which I assume will remain unchanged at 40.7mm^2.

All together, the total chip area without any WGPs is between 222.6 and 302.4mm^2, depending mostly on memory interface but also on the core. WIth a final chip size of 505mm^2, that leaves between 202.6 and 282.4mm^2 occupied by WGPs. Of which there would be 40 for an 80CU part. That equates to somewhere between 5.1 and 7.1mm^2 per WGP, or anywhere from 23.5% to 72.2% bigger than the corresponding 5700 WGPs. I can't conceive of any way that RT support, or even added ML cores, could raise CU size so dramatically as the high end. I think it's therefore pretty safe to say that "Big Navi" will have a 512-bit memory bus.

Even so, this leaves pretty big WGPs. A 23.5% growth would put the GitHub-configured XSX above even the biggest estimates of the total die size. Rather than 394mm^2, a 2SE 60CU/56active chip with 320-bit bus would end up at 414mm^2. (A 256-bit "Big Navi" would put XSX at 474mm^2, another strike in favor of 512-bit bus.)

Could we get the RDNA2 WGP smaller? After all, RT plus improved tensor cores only adds ~20% on the Nvidia side. Well, I presume 80CU Navi is a full chip with a binning process for a 72CU variant to maintain yields. But if it's an insular offering with no binning, it could have 44 WGPs to allow deactivation. That'd bring each down to 4.6mm^2, pretty close to the 4.4mm^2 I estimated for an 8% RT increase.

I think that's pretty unlikely to be the case. But there are all sorts of changes to cache amounts which could alter the number. Even just bumping ROPs from 96 to 128 would bring the WGP growth factor down to 18.5%.

tl;dr
- If "Big Navi" has 16GB GDDR6 as rumored, I predict it'll have a 512-bit bus, as rare as that is
- The rumored chip size does suggest the new hardware features are raising the CU size more than previously projected
- This new growth factor is enough that it calls the assumed configuration of XSX into question
* Maybe the XSX CUs don't have all RDNA2 features
* Maybe XSX has fewer CUs overall than we thought
* But maybe other hardware changes make up the difference, and XSX is exactly as believed.

P.S. We don't know the actual size of the PS5 APU. But it can be pointed out that a 40CU version a la GitHub could have the larger WGPs and still be 15%+ smaller than the XSX chip size with the original smaller ones. This opens the possibility that PS5 might have fewer but more sophisticated CUs, like PS4 Pro did versus the Xbox One X.
So now we have to speculate on how "sophisticated" the CU's are? As if this topic wasn't complex enough for non-techies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,897
The SSD speed is the most interesting to me & no one seems to be talking about it at all, 9 tf vs 12 tf not so much, because it's going to come down to 1800p vs 4K, with people pretending the difference is huge.
It is definitely more interesting than TFs.

SSDs will have an actual impact upon the way games are designed. TFs can't compete with that.
 

MykhellMikado

Alt account
Banned
Jan 13, 2020
823
OK.

Well, believe whatever you want to believe then. The reason why we even mentioned the Jag kit in a video was not just for "shits and giggles" or to spread negative rumours for no reason.

sounds like you're saying DF doesn't post things unless they have good reason to believe they are true...

Taken in context 12Tflop XSX was true
And thoughts of using jag in PS5 was true..
What else could be true? 🤔
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
I'm amazed that anyone in games journalism appears on forums under identifiable names, I sure as hell wouldn't. Imagine constantly being asked to explain all the decisions you made in your job by a bunch of strangers on the internet.
 

FirewalkR

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
London
Has to be today, or else there goes my avatar which I've had since pretty much when Cyberpunk 2077 was first announced in 2013, back on gaf.

It's a good thing Transistor will have a backlog today so he might skip a few... uhhh I mean, get well soon Transistor!
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
Filed from 2016 and it is not like the current rasterizer. It is about using a rasterizer able to rasterize multiples sizes of polygons per pixel efficiently. the title of the patent is "parallel micro polygon rasterizer" and in current rasterizer, this is not efficient to rasterize small triangles. It can help for example with geometric vegetation or hair or be able to tessellate silhouette of most object or character without it costing too much performance for example.
Oh I see. I was talking about the tessellator part where it creates primitives from high order surfaces.

Didn't realized the point of the patent was a rasterizer that is able to consume those triangles lol
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,542
I'm amazed that anyone in games journalism appears on forums under identifiable names, I sure as hell wouldn't. Imagine constantly being asked to explain all the decisions you made in your job by a bunch of strangers on the internet.

Seriously and people complain that insiders and media are driven off the board then ask why.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
But for?

You can believe whatever you want to as well, it can sounds completely ridiculous but be actually be true. Just like your jaguar kit claims.

The difference in these two situations is the source. I know broadly in this thread people tend to validate the source based on whether or not they like the information, but it should be the other way around.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Unless Sony gets some crazy new deal on RAM I am going to say it is impossible to get those specs with the BOM being $450. However, that is if the BOM is $450, could be more we don't know. I am wondering how much their specialized SSD is going to cost them.
You will only get that when supply by far exceeds demand. There is no need for anyone to go backwards accommodating a company giving out discounts at a time when there is far greater demand for memory than there might be supply.
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
I am jumping into this thread for the first time in weeks. I'm seeing mentions of PS5 potentially packed with jaguar? Is this a reliable rumor? ugh
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,151
I agree with Alex, the newest 4chan leak does sound like a lot of rubbish. I'm betting on 9.2 TF PS5.
 
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