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PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Did she ever say secret sauce for MS? when she did, it was in the context of PS if I remember correctly.
I'm always very interested to see the little customizations each one does. Usually they're not huge but can give some insight into what their respective studios are focusing on and what they think their API needs help with.
Weren't AMD caught using disparate settings in benchmarks before. It wouldn't strike me as weird if they counted VRS
I think lots of people on this forum have trouble with premature speculation.
They recently posted on Reddit that they didn't want to overhype RDNA2. So 🤔
Yup. It's pretty crazy, it's a fairly big change in real time rendering paradigm, moving away from shading in screen space and doing it in object space. You can read a pretty great primer here.
Big idea is that your shading isn't coupled to screen (and viewport) pixels anymore. You're now shading objects and storing the shades as textures. So, when you you're building your viewports, everything, all the geometry that shows in both only needs to be shaded once - and that will be the vast majority of stuff.
Since shading is decoupled from screen/viewport pixels, you can shade different objects at different rates - spatially and temporally. Say, everything that is far in the background can be shaded at lower resolution, or anything that is dark in color, or anything that is in your peripheric FoV - i.e. it can help with both VRS and foveated rendering. And, unlike VRS, since the shades are per object and persistent in memory, you can decide to shade some stuff at half, a quarter of the frequency only, reusing shades for the other frames.
It's pretty powerful. It has a higher initialization cost than normal rendering, but once you increase scene complexity a bit and make some use of optimization, it can get much, much cheaper.
Yeah, I think Dr Su mentioned it when she had Phil Spencer on stage with her at some occasion. She also mentioned that backward compatibility was very hard thing to do and there was something in the silicon to help with it (certainly on Xbox One X).
Given that only AF was out of the box improvement and the rest was patched titles only I don't to see how that moved the expectation needle much relative to past high end revisions (hell even DSi had a few enhanced titles).
With DRS + unlocked framerate in a lot of recent titles giving you resolution and framerate upgrades without hacks, and the really high profile stuff will get patched anyway, I question if there's anything else worth bothering with.
Thanks for the explanation, I understand it now. Definitely sounds powerful. Oh well fingers crossed haha. Seems like plenty of scope for next next gen at the very least.
Could you find the source for this?
For PS5 I found these:
I couldn't find anything for Scarlett for anything published in 2019/20.
I think rdna 2 with custom sony/ms things that amd might implement in rdna 3 natively sounds more likely than the other way around?
That's what people assumed with Sony RDNA1 with RT and VRS from RDNA2 but that was thrown out quite quickly. I highly doubt either are using RDNA 3 features especially since we don't even know what RDNA2 fully is
How the heck is this running at all let alone at 2x the frame rate and a higher resolution?
This is straight sorcery.
is this emulator one that requires a lot of specific game optimizations in order to run things or is it a solid universal one? Cause if it's the later then I hope Sony engineers are taking some hard looks at the code behind it.
Is there any indication that Sony will be launching PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time? If MS is still planning on doing it, Sony may going for it as well... not sure I like the idea but if we end up with a 9TF PS5 and a more powerful Pro, I dont think I would mind that
Last time I checked, it was really finicky and would only work on some games. And it requires some mighty powerful hardware.
PREDICTION:
PS5:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.2 GHz
11.059 TF GPU (48 active CUs @ 1.8 GHz)
16 GB GDDR6 available to devs (18GB total) @ 18 Gbps on a 288-bit memory bus
1 TB SSD @ 6 GB/s
$500
Series X:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.6 GHz w/
12.288 TF GPU (60 active CUs @ 1.6 GHz)
13 GB GDDR6 available to devs (16GB total) @ 18 Gbps on a 256-bit memory bus
1TB SSD @ 4 GB/s
$500
Series S:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.4 GHz w/
4.096 TF GPU (20 active CUs @ 1.6GHz)
9 GB GDDR6 available to devs (12GB Total) @ 16 Gbps on a 192-bit memory bus
512 GB SSD @ 4 GB/s
$350
PS5:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.2 GHz
11.059 TF GPU (48 active CUs @ 1.8 GHz)
16 GB GDDR6 available to devs (18GB total) @ 18 Gbps on a 288-bit memory bus
1 TB SSD @ 6 GB/s
$500
Series X:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.6 GHz w/
12.288 TF GPU (60 active CUs @ 1.6 GHz)
13 GB GDDR6 available to devs (16GB total) @ 18 Gbps on a 256-bit memory bus
1TB SSD @ 4 GB/s
$500
Series S:
8c/16t Zen 2 CPU @ 3.4 GHz w/
4.096 TF GPU (20 active CUs @ 1.6GHz)
9 GB GDDR6 available to devs (12GB Total) @ 16 Gbps on a 192-bit memory bus
512 GB SSD @ 4 GB/s
$350
Last edited:
ah so it's not really a universal solution then. Likely it requires a lot of game specific hacks and modifications to work. That's a shame. Got pretty excited there for a second
still pretty damn imprsssive that it's able to run that well at all though given the HW it is emulating
It's pretty universal, but as they're still developing it, implementing stuff and optimizing what's there, stuff kinda works on a case-by-case basis. Cell weirdness aside, PS3 is much closer to how we do things currently than the pretty primitive and odd ways the PS1 did 3D graphics, for instance.
We didn't know what ps4 looked like till e3 lol Microsoft showed the Xbox first also last gen and made fun of Sony. Look how that played out 👀
Xbox Series X Will Have Backwards Compatibility On Day One
In order to ensure a smooth transition to the next console generation, Xbox Series X will play all of your Xbox One games the day it comes out.
www.gamespot.com
This was also true for XB1 IIRC.
Good morning fellow spectators!
Holy shit this is amazing just by the fact they have it running 4k/60. Sony just need to hire these guys to work on PS3BC for the PS5 if it is not a feature upon release.
Anyway, any new news? I see someone arguing about RDNA3 for some ungodly reason even though RDNA2 hasn't even been released yet.
Holy shit this is amazing just by the fact they have it running 4k/60. Sony just need to hire these guys to work on PS3BC for the PS5 if it is not a feature upon release.
Anyway, any new news? I see someone arguing about RDNA3 for some ungodly reason even though RDNA2 hasn't even been released yet.
She essentially said the same thing about Xbox to the same person just 8 months prior to that particular interview here :
AMD CEO describes key gaming partnerships with Sony, Microsoft: We're helping them with their 'secret sauce'
Jim Cramer discusses Advanced Micro Devices' meteoric rise with the executive that made it happen, Dr. Lisa Su.
And again back at Computex last year, both AMD and MS shared a stage where they discussed their 'Deep Partnership', 'From console to cloud':
I really don't see the point in trying to read into any of those 'secret sauce' quotes. All AMD are doing is providing a positive comment about their relationship with key partners. What do you expect them to say exactly?
She essentially said the same thing about Xbox to the same person just 8 months prior to that particular interview here :
AMD CEO describes key gaming partnerships with Sony, Microsoft: We're helping them with their 'secret sauce'
Jim Cramer discusses Advanced Micro Devices' meteoric rise with the executive that made it happen, Dr. Lisa Su.www.cnbc.com
And again back at Computex last year, both AMD and MS shared a stage where they discussed their 'Deep Partnership', 'From console to cloud':
I really don't see the point in trying to read into any of those 'secret sauce' quotes. All AMD are doing is providing a positive comment about their relationship with key partners. What do you expect them to say exactly?
Because the person I quoted said they "confirmed" secret sauce for both?
Why take his harmless statement and make something combative out of it? Just why?
Publishers are going to want to start showcasing their next-generation content before long, which is why I expect Sony's unveiling to happen in order to open the floodgates of demos on their hardware. Otherwise all we'd see are Xbox demos, and that seems like a competitive mistake you wouldn't want to make.
As for Lockhart? I just don't see where talking about it makes any sense at all until price enters the equation. I firmly expect we won't see any official news until around E3, and possibly later.
since the xbox is already rdna 2.0 likely at 7nm+ with a big ass die. that to me shows that they went for power savings over more density. iirc, 7nm+ lets you have 20% more density or 10% more power efficiency. i wouldnt be surprised if thats what they went with.
since both ps and xbox are rdna 2.0 and 7nm+, it stands to reason they are both using the same 7nm+ process. same goes for that big navi that is supposed to be 505mm2 with 80 CUs. this lines up with the 405mm2 xbox series x die which should leave around 340mm2 for the gpu.
if the github leaks are true, thats 56 cus with rt. so what exactly did klee, reiner and others were told?
12.5? 13? 14? how does sony get an extra tflop or two out of the same exact hardware? did MS not cut the L3 cache in the cpu? i highly doubt it.
that leaves us with hbm. i really dont see how sony can go with higher clocks unless they have hbm. ive long assumed both have the same number of CUs. but with MS going with a giant tower design, i have to wonder what sony could be doing to push clocks even higher than MS. hbm is the only thing i can think of since we are likely already both on 7nm+.
unless, sony is going with wide and slow. like really wide and slow. seeing as how both ms and amd have gone with large dies, its likely that the costs of producing dies that big isnt exactly 2x or even 1.5x like amd made them out to be. i wouldnt be surprised if sony went with a massive die as well with more CUs or maybe even chiplet design.
so hbm or massive die or chiplet design. otherwise i cant make sense of klee's specs.
since both ps and xbox are rdna 2.0 and 7nm+, it stands to reason they are both using the same 7nm+ process. same goes for that big navi that is supposed to be 505mm2 with 80 CUs. this lines up with the 405mm2 xbox series x die which should leave around 340mm2 for the gpu.
if the github leaks are true, thats 56 cus with rt. so what exactly did klee, reiner and others were told?
12.5? 13? 14? how does sony get an extra tflop or two out of the same exact hardware? did MS not cut the L3 cache in the cpu? i highly doubt it.
that leaves us with hbm. i really dont see how sony can go with higher clocks unless they have hbm. ive long assumed both have the same number of CUs. but with MS going with a giant tower design, i have to wonder what sony could be doing to push clocks even higher than MS. hbm is the only thing i can think of since we are likely already both on 7nm+.
unless, sony is going with wide and slow. like really wide and slow. seeing as how both ms and amd have gone with large dies, its likely that the costs of producing dies that big isnt exactly 2x or even 1.5x like amd made them out to be. i wouldnt be surprised if sony went with a massive die as well with more CUs or maybe even chiplet design.
so hbm or massive die or chiplet design. otherwise i cant make sense of klee's specs.
Hi :) Are you a developer with access to development kits, or is this what you think is very likely? Thanks!
We have to have some kind of talking points since Sony isn't revealing anything. So "clover" configurations, rdna 3 and XSeX having no secret sauce it is.
👀
They're just making predictions, they've been doing it for almost all the past OTs.
Thanks for clarification! Most people write something like "My Predictions" before posting specs, that's why I was a little bit unsure if it were a prediction or actually true specs ;)
Combative in your eyes. I stated facts. Show me where I didn't. If u can't then refrain from quoting me with baseless accusations thank you 👍
It's not about whether you stated "facts", it's about the original comment being a harmless "gee, weird we haven't seen what the PS5 looks like yet" without a hint of bias or anything else and you somehow turning it into "lol member when MS fucked up". I can't "show you were you didn't" either as I don't recall MS ever making fun of Sony for not showing the PS4??
You platform warred and loled while doing it. Don't be disingenuous.
I believe Major Nelson Tweeted something along the lines of 'Console reveal without actually showing the console??'.
I think we're saying the same thing - I just mean it would be a repeat of what they did with the PS4 Pro's GPU. Were the Vega features in that chip always Vega features from the beginning, or were they originally conceived for the Pro?
User banned (3 days): Platform wars. Hostility.
Prove that I did. I stated what happened 7 years ago and tell me it wasn't funny when it happened. You guys have too much feelings invested into these things 😂. How bout you pm me let's join up and play some games 💪
Good question. And yeah it kind of become the same thing in the end.
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