I think Halo will define when XSX launches, so based off history could be as early as September or November. I think October will be most likely.
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PS5 Speculation |OT12| - Aw hell, Transistor's running this again?
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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There is no difference between physical and digital games, if it plays one form it plays the other.
BC is a key pillar in Sony and Microsoft's next-gen strategy, so I don't think it's a weird obsession at all, especially in the digital era.
I beg you please show me an official statement from Sony that details they are backwards compatibility program. BC is not one bullet fit all and kill all. Can I play my physical PS4 games on PS5, can I play digital PS4 games on PS5, can I put my Max Payne 3 PS3 disk into PS5 and play it, or do I have to have a digital version for PS3 games to be BC on PS5, or better still is PS3 games BC on PS5 at all??
I think it is worth keeping in the back of your mind that they might also slow the SSD speed down for bc mode or tie it to a "beta" boost mode only, perhaps limited to the sata interface of the Ps4
There may well be games that freak out if they load that fast - especially if Sony don't perform per title testing.
They've already set that scene by talking about how the Spider-man demo was was a custom build to take advantage of it.
I'd expect big improvements, but I would pare back those expectations from "super speed".
But coming back to what the original comment was, I think it would be a shame if those are the only benefits we see.
The 16xAf , improved AA and resolution increases that MS introduced with the Xbox One's BC have set an expectation that things should look better too.
I'll be disappointed if they don't do similar things for Xbox One games running on SX.
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User banned (2 weeks): Antagonizing. History of similar behavior. Account in junior phase.
Well if you know for a fact then please share a link giving me details and procedures for that backwards compatibility to work. I know for a fact how it works on Xbox one X and it is very safe to assume it will be the same for Xbox Series X.
Don't be disingenuous the poster has raised some good points and the note about Spider-Man being a custom build to take advantage of the SSD is also important
Just wanted to say, I think these are very fair betting conditions you set up and if anyone refuses them, it just means they either had no serious intentions on betting in the first place or have never been confident in themselves. I don't know which sounds more pathetic
I thought the custom element was speeding up spiderman and his swinging, kinda the opposite problem to older games loading quicker.
If Sony is serious about BC they didnt started doing it last year but most likely years ago.
I think it makes both financial and marketing sense to do it has they can run around with "Play all generations with the ps5" and use the psnow to put all does games there and if, they will continue to support the ps3 games in stream mode then it makes sense to change hardware as early as possible since they will not be making cell processers forever.
Holy shit did you lose an avatar bet with Transistor?
you may be right but I remember watching the load in video and it definitely loaded in quicker on the SSD but was still a custom build.
For users it will be no difference at all (or supposed to be at least) but server side physical and digital have different licenses on Playstation platform. Also there is the fact that PS3 Blu-Ray might be different to PS5 Blu-Ray. PS1 and PS2 disks are also in question since they are in different format altogether and I do not know the specifics of Blu-Ray backwards compatibility with DVD and CD, if they have to use different lasers for BC games for older consoles, it will also add to BOM, or they might scrap disks altogether and just go with digital only.
Lets say details are uncertain. PS5 have BC but in what shape and form, nobody knows...
My take on RT and VRS Data missing in the Github leak is, that they simply ran the Ariel (assumed RDNA1) test procedure on Oberon (RDNA2?) to compare architecture gains/problems with one another, so of course there is no RT/VRS info due to Ariel being RDNA1.
Yes, I have only ever had the other avatar, everything feels wrong. I mentioned the swinging because its kinda the opposite of BC and the game is being pushed to being almost a new version, I'm not expecting anything like that for other games.
It'll hit close for sure. I'm curious to see the differences if the gulf stays true. I hope the gulf is smaller though.
I mean, they don't have to cover all versions.
For PS5 BC all I expect is a suitably modified APU that makes 99.x% of PS4 games run as is when you put the disc in (or load the digital copy). Just like PS1 BC on PS2 as an example. Any game enhancements would be a bonus. I don't expect anything other than PS4 BC.
Yeah 'super speed' as you put it will most likely be case by case basis and not applied to all games with the flick of a switch.
"But coming back to what the original comment was, I think it would be a shame if those are the only benefits we see.
The 16xAf , improved AA and resolution increases that MS introduced with the Xbox One's BC have set an expectation that things should look better too."
This is what we should discuss about BC on Sony's side and try to skew the results in our way by pressuring Sony for doing at least the same basic improvements. Or better yet ask for even more improvements. While the reality is we don't know the details.
And this is why I said that IGN poll had that result => People are most curious about their BC implementations more than anything bc it is based on company policy while RT, SSD, adaptive triggers and all that is based on Studios making games, while BC is an all encompassing feature that might make or break Sony's next gen in terms of repeating PS4 vx Xbone used games policy -> remember Sony's used games video and how they dropped the mic on their reveal. For this gen BC is one of those crucial moments of how the public will view either company and their platforms.
Yep, I still remember the X360 vs PS3 vs PC comparison days. How simple they were.
I'm leaning toward this too. Those in possession of the Github files have said that in places it reads like the Oberon data has been pasted in to the Ariel test file structure. Maybe the switch of architecture to RDNA2 led to the comparisons being put together like this?
Well that's the thing, what do the specs look like for a custom Raytracing chip?
And how do you benchmark that alone?
Don't forget setting the resolution to 1080p, 1440p and 2160p, VRR enabled and disabled (although I don't think they have the tech to test framerate in VRR)
With AMD announcing RDNA2 for PS5 I think it's time for the speculation to move on to new guesses and scenarios.
It's clear that Sony is using a 2020 GPU with state of the art AMD GPU technlogy and it's clear that they're making a premium device.
Tons of assumptions about Sony being locked with an outdated GPU design because of a 2019 launch, about having a tacked on non-AMD ray tracing support and other silly stuff have pretty much been debunked as bullshit.
Under these circumstances the idea of a PS5 GPU with 36CUs and less than 10Teraflops is now absolutely laughable.
RDNA2+ 7nm simply allows for more than that at a design level and at the target price of these consoles and the same is obviously true for both Microsoft and Sony. 36CUs is simply ridiculous, it's an old gen setup used in PS4 Pro as well that AMD is officially positioning in current cards as a 1080p/1440p solution.
I'm not convinced that 2GHz is feasible in consoles in any case even with the better power efficiency of RDNA2 and Microsoft is already proving that.
They are on RDNA2 as well, their console is huge and they designed a big chip not running anywhere close to 2GHz.
If 2GHz was easy to do we should assume that Microsoft badly designed Series X and I don't think that's the case.
About PS5 I think that looking at the progression between PS4 and PS4 Pro, PS5 will have an extra 18CUs compared to the Pro and they're targeting three times the teraflops of the Pro.
So 54CUs running at about 1.8GHz. In this way they can easily disable groups of 18CUs having both PS4 and PS4 Pro modes.
I expect PS5 and Xbox to be pretty much identical with a difference of less than a teraflops depending on final clock speeds.
So this is pretty much my prediction hoping that specs are unveiled soon although I fear we'll have to wait until April if not May.
It's clear that Sony is using a 2020 GPU with state of the art AMD GPU technlogy and it's clear that they're making a premium device.
Tons of assumptions about Sony being locked with an outdated GPU design because of a 2019 launch, about having a tacked on non-AMD ray tracing support and other silly stuff have pretty much been debunked as bullshit.
Under these circumstances the idea of a PS5 GPU with 36CUs and less than 10Teraflops is now absolutely laughable.
RDNA2+ 7nm simply allows for more than that at a design level and at the target price of these consoles and the same is obviously true for both Microsoft and Sony. 36CUs is simply ridiculous, it's an old gen setup used in PS4 Pro as well that AMD is officially positioning in current cards as a 1080p/1440p solution.
I'm not convinced that 2GHz is feasible in consoles in any case even with the better power efficiency of RDNA2 and Microsoft is already proving that.
They are on RDNA2 as well, their console is huge and they designed a big chip not running anywhere close to 2GHz.
If 2GHz was easy to do we should assume that Microsoft badly designed Series X and I don't think that's the case.
About PS5 I think that looking at the progression between PS4 and PS4 Pro, PS5 will have an extra 18CUs compared to the Pro and they're targeting three times the teraflops of the Pro.
So 54CUs running at about 1.8GHz. In this way they can easily disable groups of 18CUs having both PS4 and PS4 Pro modes.
I expect PS5 and Xbox to be pretty much identical with a difference of less than a teraflops depending on final clock speeds.
So this is pretty much my prediction hoping that specs are unveiled soon although I fear we'll have to wait until April if not May.
Yo, I hear the new LG OLEDs are gonna another couple of TF to that.
I don't see how anyone couldn't be wowed or see a generational leap with:
Resolution isn't the only aspect that can scale without altering design/scope.
In a theoretical environment where XSX is 12TF and PS5 is 9.2, a dev could release both games at 1800p and use the same reconstruction method for each. With this approach the XSX version could use the remaining gpu compute to enable visual effects that are noticeably absent on the PS5 version.
I don't think this will be the case (I think both devices will be ~12TF) but i think it's important to note that while these devices might be designed for resolution scaling from native 4k->1080p, that may not be the approach devs take for their games.
with XSX (and ps5) I hope devs avoid native 4k and instead use reconstruction techniques on lower internal resolutions and use the resulting compute savings for face-melting graphics. When it comes time to scale for Lockhart, this could mean toning down the graphics instead of taking the internal resolution down to unacceptable levels. And I'd be perfectly ok with that.
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Finally I can make use of the cell processor in my toaster and get rid of the frame pacing issues in Bloodborne
The Division 1 looked amazing and the scale was massive in terms of open world detail. That blew me away.
We really taking that gameplay for representation huh? XD
So if there's a chance that we could be waiting for a May/June/July PS5 reveal, how do you think the Godfall reveal, happening "very, very soon," will be done?
Lol on PC it did look like that on Ultra tbf. Not even just the graphics though. The detail.
Also I wasn't taking it for gameplay representation.
Not to get side tracked, but I got Divison 2 on the cheap when it was on sale recently. Not really overly interested in military/realistic shooters but boy did I make a mistake on sleeping on that one.
The game is phenomenal!
I think we should really think about what "really really soon" means for the gaming industry.
I played on PS4
It is! I've been running through it over the last week!
Game Development is constrained by budget and man power. If the straight resolution scale is the most effective means of cross platform development then that's what will happen in the majority of cases.
Why would you development more features for a lower install base unless you were paid to do so or competition demanded it. We already saw it this generation with most titles being identical with the exception of a resolution and frame rate increase.
With the RDNA2 confirmation I feel there is weight to a 54 cu ps5 with lower clocks than xbox and sitting in the 10 Tf range.
I really dont see Sony doing anything outside of a traditional console design and targeting 400 dollars. That's what makes sense to me. So I see it being less power than an X but a sleeker more traditional console design and cheaper than the X, unless ms wants to take a serious hit on the box.
I really dont see Sony doing anything outside of a traditional console design and targeting 400 dollars. That's what makes sense to me. So I see it being less power than an X but a sleeker more traditional console design and cheaper than the X, unless ms wants to take a serious hit on the box.
Realistically what different would 2TF make to thermals and thus design and noise?
The SSD is going to be a major contributor to heat, I'd be wary of another noisy playstation if they go for sleek.
I'm pretty sure that if they were wanting to target a lower price than XSX they would want a smaller chip, not just an equally large chip clocked slower. A smaller chip would imply 36, not 54.
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And these posts show my actual knowledge on the matter lol.
Thanks for the input, so if they are targeting cheaper sku a 36 cu chip would yield more but need to be clocked higher? This would increase temps too right? Is this where the argument for 36 cus and 9tf or less comes from?
Evil, do you think it makes sense that older ps5 dev kits wouldn't have had raytracing support at all? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
So bearing in mind MS has 12TF confirmed, they have to be at, what, 54cu to make it work with the clock speed limits?
I honestly don't know, but if I was to hazard a guess, I'd imagine not, perhaps those ones had more standardised components in them.
Perhaps some of the higher clocked variances in later models were to facilitate some RT like features in development before the custom hardware hits (it that's what it is)
What exactly is a "more traditional console"?
Is your definition constrained o shape and form or to internals? Because if its shape and form, does that mean the GameCube is not a traditional console?
I believe that as long as a console has a CPU, GPU, RAM, Storage, controller and requires you to plug it into a TV that makes it traditional. It being slim and flat or being a cube or a pyramid is just its form factor. Or you really think they couldn't have fit an XSX into the chassis of the OG XB1? Cause its about similar in size by volume.
Well up to a point. They are really suceptable to thermal issue as you get up in speed and load right now. Heatsinks are not just dressing, as they can just shut off if bad, or throttle speeds to stay in thermal stability.
Hdds have air and metal do dissipate heat with, ass well as a ton more surface area
This really isn't true at all. Go play just about any graphically intensive cross-platform game on a high end PC, then play that same game on an Xbox one.
In addition to resolution and framerate differences, you'll see a ton of graphical effects toned down, replaced with less demanding ones, or completely missing. In addition, you'll see other losses fidelity like more aggressive LODs, reduced draw distances, and simpler character models. Top of the line pc users get all sorts of exclusive, computationally expensive, graphical features even though very few gamers have top of the line PCs.
For visuals, The top down approach is much more efficient for multiple hardware targets. Creating high quality assets isnt wasteful, even if fewer people can use them in that state, because these HQ assets are the source of the lower quality assets.
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Yeah, I think I'm done with the github madness. I think, lol. You make a good point. Nav10 was specifically linked to Oberon, none for Arden. hmqgg said Nav12 when asked on Twitter about Series X. So many breadcrumbs for Oberon and Nav10.
All I know is PS5 being RDNA 2 flips everything on its head right now.
Why yes, yes it is...welcome.
Will bang.
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