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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Transistor
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Because if [MY PLASTIC BOX OF CHOICE] is not stronger than [THE OPPOSITE PLASTIC BOX] the universe will explode.
He said one lead artist. And lead artist or technical artist and they need to know because you will need to know how much(texture, polygones and so on) you can push inside the pipeline.
Lee cash is game director at EA motiive.
C. You believe Klee and the other insiders. If you do the PS5 is more optimized whatever TFs.
GPU/TF is not the only one criteria (especially if it's pretty close, like 11/12)
Best exemple: how many Android devices are slower than iOS with more RAM (4 vs 8 or 10/12)?
Most people believe there is truth in both, hence the lack of consensus on a number.
God i hope not, after years of speculating we are this close to actual release and it all just disappears like that till next year.
That hurts just to think about...
if people are really worried about the difference wouldn't they use Matt's comment about them being about a 10% difference?
I think i will be happier not knowing everything about the PS5 yet, if we have to wait for spring next year to play with it.
The opposite of a gulf in power ? Xbox One and PS4.
Those are devs words (negligible difference, close in power, their basically similarly spec'd)
and it comes down to services and exclusives next gen.
Lol its funny because specs really won't matter, only who has the better exclusives will. 3rd party pubs will have to optimize for whatever the weaker console is anyway.
By doubling down I mean until word was out that it wasn't. More that he was clear his info was that it was canceled than that he wouldn't acknowledged he might be wrong.
Does this line of thinking still apply to those that not only plan on buying the ps5, but still prefer Sony's offering?
I'm not feeling where this thread is heading yet again.
No time for reason... when "insiders" cant be "trusted" anymore.
I trust Matt.
Transistor Why are there not two threads for the consoles yet? This thread isn't promoting healthy discussion.
One console we know everything about (form factor, Specs (apart from clock speed of CPU and ram and price)
The other console we know nothing about. It's more speculation. Discussion will not progress ... its NOT because there isn't anything to talk about, but a passive aggresive tone from both sides. The Github leak is a simple issue.
This argument will go on and on until it drives members from participating in this thread.
Group A believe it is final or near final SoC.
Group B believes it's not the full picture, it's either BC testing of some sort or software testing using the old SoC for a 2019 release etc.
The two sides will never ever agree. But this argument is ruining this thread.
This rages on page after page and it's really not a welcoming thread to many.
In the interest of legitimate discourse, should the PS5 and Xbox Series X not get their own threads now?
If not, when will it happen?
And.. what are the criteria for it to happen?
I would just like to know why we haven't gotten two seperate threads yet?
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People will argue the semantics of the word "close", or argue that the person is a journalist and not a tech guy, or that it is all hearsay.
Exactly the veracity of Oberon is verified at 100% and the truth on Sony side until May 2019 .
14tf?
Project Eplison?
32GB memory?
Aaww shit, here we go again.
Ok....couldn't that mean way back then those could have been actual targets?
14tf at 2Ghz..?
Agree. There is a Team C.
And I don't even think the PS5 will have more tf than Series X. I just don't think the PS5 will be 9.2 But I'm not gonna sit here and say it's not possible.
It's still yet to be determined that the github results are the final amounts for PS5, despite it matching Series X damn near to a tee.
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Some of it is in bad faith (they have a bias and choose to believe a reduced number of sources). Some of it is respectful deference. Plans change and Matt is "allowed" to be wrong because he was speaking about the state at the time.
I mean, surely it wouldn't be surprising if both the PS5 and the Series X had to be pushed to next year, because of manufacturing issues due to COVID-19?
+1
They all spoke about target specs. You can reach the specs or fail to reach the specs. For example PS3 GPU was downgraded from 550 Mhz to 500 Mhz and it was after the official presentation of the machine. If MS say 12 Tflops, it is because they are sure they will be able to reach this spec.
Klee said too maybe Xbox will be mre powerful at the end.
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Didn't that Bloomberg article say the cost to produce the PS5 had gone up to around $450? That to me seemed to indicate they would like to release it at $400 but maybe can't now because of some part increases. It's just hard to grapple with the PS5 being as powerful as the XBX in terms of Tfs while still aiming to launch at around $400. Seems more plausible the PS5 is cheaper and has a less powerful GPU but makes it up elsewhere with a faster SSD etc. Schreier alluded to the fact it's not just going to be about Tfs and that there is more to comparing the output of these boxes than that.
5 months is almost half a year so no, I wouldn't say that's over the coming months, that's 3 months max but they said that two months ago (in January) yeah?
so yeah, too fucking long.
github? did someone from there promis more info?
True there has been insider talk saying could be higher, but there has been insider talk saying the opposite too. Or rather that it will be around 9, so I don't know what to believe anymore. But right now it seems like the rumors is making 9 sound more and more believable.
I read this wrong, I thought you said 9 is too low for you. But anyway yes, mS did the same thing with Xbone, which was originally 1.6 GHz but was bumped up to 1.75 GHz and 800 MHz bumped up to 853 MHz. So even if Sony comes out with 12 or 13, mS could just bump the Series X before launch.
Even though it has been explained to me before, convincing myself it's going to be 9 or lower just disappoints me if the mS console already has higher numbers. But if it does turn out to be weaker, but performance wise we don't see that much of a difference then it truly doesn't matter but it all depends on how software will perform.
What CU would it be to indicate 9+ if 36CU indicates 8 and up? But the CU number is also definitely a rumor yeah..?
This is the first I've heard anyone think it could be as high as 13+, but if it is, what do you think it will be priced at?
Hey there era, I'm new here and I wanted to start with a short introduction of myself like you did what feels to be a couple of 100 pages ago.
Son_of_Oden, 35M, mech./el. engineer, taken, proud cat daddy, lurker since the infamous Github leak in OT8, current sanity-level: OT11 and beyond, Team Sony since PSX with a 360 and some Nintendo handhelds in the mix, longing for a true generational leap (which IMHO is a given for the XSX, so an honest bravo to MS!)
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I just wanted to barge in because I haven't seen my kind of reasoning for the whole github debacle yet from any other users (or I overread it...):
Let's assume Sonys development baseline back in 2015/2016 was to double the Pros TF with a 8,4TF PS5.
This goal must have changed in an instant when Scorpio was revealed at E3 2016 and there was already chit-chat of it being 6TF, because a next-gen console which is (if you round the 1,8 and 2,4TFs --> 2TF) exactly the difference from PS4 Pro to XOX faster is quite difficult to market as next-gen?
Furthermore I think keeping the CU-count unchanged from PS4 Pro and just hoping for a frequency/TF doubling due to power efficiencies given by a smaller manufacturing node is just a REALLY lazy engineering/development principle.
All said, I'm really having a hard time believing github is the whole truth and Sony/Cerny fucking up this monumentally... (because 9,2TF@36CU2GHz is never gonna happen! Max. 1,85GHz and then we are almost back again at double Pro power)
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My speculation: Clover Design with 3SE/54CUs at 1,7-1,85GHz
Son_of_Oden, 35M, mech./el. engineer, taken, proud cat daddy, lurker since the infamous Github leak in OT8, current sanity-level: OT11 and beyond, Team Sony since PSX with a 360 and some Nintendo handhelds in the mix, longing for a true generational leap (which IMHO is a given for the XSX, so an honest bravo to MS!)
----
I just wanted to barge in because I haven't seen my kind of reasoning for the whole github debacle yet from any other users (or I overread it...):
Let's assume Sonys development baseline back in 2015/2016 was to double the Pros TF with a 8,4TF PS5.
This goal must have changed in an instant when Scorpio was revealed at E3 2016 and there was already chit-chat of it being 6TF, because a next-gen console which is (if you round the 1,8 and 2,4TFs --> 2TF) exactly the difference from PS4 Pro to XOX faster is quite difficult to market as next-gen?
Furthermore I think keeping the CU-count unchanged from PS4 Pro and just hoping for a frequency/TF doubling due to power efficiencies given by a smaller manufacturing node is just a REALLY lazy engineering/development principle.
All said, I'm really having a hard time believing github is the whole truth and Sony/Cerny fucking up this monumentally... (because 9,2TF@36CU2GHz is never gonna happen! Max. 1,85GHz and then we are almost back again at double Pro power)
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My speculation: Clover Design with 3SE/54CUs at 1,7-1,85GHz
Believing Klee and other insiders does not conclude that the PS5 is more powerful. Just that there isn't a huge gap between them. That's a very console fanboy outlook you got there.
ah, yes which reminds me that Matt also said if he had an opinion of guessing, he was also saying that MS might be more powerful too.
I was very specific about software developers, yes. Of course, if the person describe as developper is a level designer or a character designer, yes, there is no reasons for them to know specs.
But if someone in the gaming world (Klee, in this case) is saying his developer friend showed him gameplay, I assume he is in the software team. Maybe I am wrong on that.
What game engine do you think will produce the best results next gen? Unreal? Decima? Is Cryengine going to make a splash?
OP
OP
We still have an active thread for the Xbox Series X spec reveal right here:
Xbox Series X: What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming (12TF, RDNA2 & Zen 2, Hardware Raytracing, Variable Rate Shading) OFFICIAL SPECS
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/02/Xbox_ShortBullets_JPG.jpg?w=1920 TLDR - 12 Teraflops Custom RDNA 2 & Zen 2 Processor Variable Rate Shading Hardware Accelerated DirectX Raytracing Custom Built SSD Quick Resume for Multiple Games Dynamic Latency Input HDMI 2.1...
www.resetera.com
Nothing is going to stop the SOC / TF / whatever nonsense battle from occurring, so why split the threads. We keep it contained here. Series X discussion on the known stuff can be talked about in the above thread.
sigh
1. Yes, it costs money, but Gamepass already has millions of subscribers who won't be getting 'free' subs. And any money spent is recouped from future subs. Given the value Gamepass brings, I'd be shocked if the folks who cancel are a large percentage.
2. I'm not sure why you think most of these studios are new or have no experience making games. But OK.
Well that would be the logical conclusion to that line of thinking. REGARDLESS OF GAP, THERE IS A GAP. ONE WILL HAVE A SLIGHT EDGE.
Was there not a consensus that the PS5 had the edge? Or am I wrong on this.
Also leave me out of the console fanboy crap. If that is how you interpreted my post that is on you.
No I think he is lead artist or lead tech artist but if you think the artist need to know thje spec because the work they will created can make the consoles run like shit. I would say than lead programmer, lead artist or tech arist knows earlier than other.
No there was no consensus about which one will be more powerful.
So, you're saying even after the PS5 spec reveal the threads will remain one?We still have an active thread for the Xbox Series X spec reveal right here:
Xbox Series X: What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming (12TF, RDNA2 & Zen 2, Hardware Raytracing, Variable Rate Shading) OFFICIAL SPECS
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/02/Xbox_ShortBullets_JPG.jpg?w=1920 TLDR - 12 Teraflops Custom RDNA 2 & Zen 2 Processor Variable Rate Shading Hardware Accelerated DirectX Raytracing Custom Built SSD Quick Resume for Multiple Games Dynamic Latency Input HDMI 2.1...
Nothing is going to stop the SOC / TF / whatever nonsense battle from occurring, so why split the threads. We keep it contained here. Series X discussion on the known stuff can be talked about in the above thread.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
Welcome to the madhouse.
I and many others agree there's more to the github results.
OP
OP
Probably not. We'll have a Series X thread and a PS5 thread at that point. A lot of it depends on how much is revealed.
Transistor:
If there is an OT12 do you post the whole bet thing still in OT11 or will it moved to OT12 ?
From your last post I interpret that you say the Series X thread replaces the next gen thread for Series X discussion ?
Will there be 2 next gen threads for Xbox if Lockhart will announced ?
If there is an OT12 do you post the whole bet thing still in OT11 or will it moved to OT12 ?
From your last post I interpret that you say the Series X thread replaces the next gen thread for Series X discussion ?
Will there be 2 next gen threads for Xbox if Lockhart will announced ?
Ok. Heres to hoping enough is revealed to warrant a split. I think a divorce is in good order for the sake of Era members hoping for quality and progressive discourse.
weeks? no. just three days.
he actually replied to me when i pointed out he said bingo to the math, not the CU count.
My post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...r-see-staff-post.159131/page-75#post-27483765
Klee's reply: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...ark-tower-see-staff-post.159131/post-27484006
Klee has been nothing but open about everything. he has given us detailed impressions of the game he saw. he has literally quoted the conversations he had with his source regarding double digit tflops. he went into almost dangerous level of detail when recounting his trip to california. he has given us our name, his credentials and has been vetted by with two different ADMINS on this board. Sure they cant verify his info but he has shared that info with them.
no one has been this open about the info and their sources. not even tom warren or jason.
Series X and Lockhart are family of devices, one thread should be sufficient. (like One X and S, PS4 and Pro)
What a weird and reductive way of looking at this thread. It definitely has more than two camps.
I personally put zero stock in any insiders whatsoever. I'm way to skeptical a person to start doing that.
And while I put zero stock in insiders, I actually do believe that Github is legitimate data (anyone denying this is being an idiot).
However having said these two things, I'm 100% convinced that the PS5 will not be 9.2TF. It is either going to be around 8tf +- or it's going to be higher than 9.2tf. Meaning that while I believe Github to be legitimate data, I also believe that it lacks context.
No way in hell that a Console is going to run an igpu at a constant 2ghz clock. It would be insane for more than one reason:
*It would run crazy Hot and thus would need very good cooling. (expensive and most likely loud)
*It would be very energy inefficiënt because the higher the clocks the more volts you need to throw at the damn thing for it to run stable. The power draw does not rise in a lineair fashion.
*It would most likely require some binning because not all chips are made equal and some might have trouble getting to a stable 2ghz. (expensive)
There are probably some more reasons i'm forgetting but I think I have listed enough to make it clear that it is very very very unlikely that the PS5 will run at 9.2tf with 36CU's. If it has 36 CU's it will most certainly run with lower clocks and thus have around 8tf or so.
So it really comes down to this: Do you believe that Sony is going to release a 8tf PS5 while the competition has a 12tf console?
I personally don't think this will be the case so I am making the assumption that the Github data does not show the entire picture (we know it doesn't cause it's missing RT for the supposed ps5 chip) and that the PS5 will have more than 9.2tf. Not because i believe any insiders but because the github data makes very very little sense to me. I also doubt that the PS5 is going to be higher than 12tf because that number is already insane to me.
Tldr: there are more than just two sides dude. Claiming otherwise seems a bit like fanboy drivel.
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Word of mouth dictating the stronger console will definitely have some impact. If there's a power difference between PS5 and XSX, it absolutely will not be anything major. More than likely it'll just mean bragging rights for having "the most powerful console". Of course this has marketing potential for the masses, but most powerful is the crucial deciding factor only for a handful if you look the whole market, gamer or casual. It just seems like some people make it like whoever has the console with more Tflops is going to be the market leader.
MS has had a great roll out thus far and to me they seem to be making the right moves, but as things stand they just aren't going to beat the worldwide appeal and recognition of Playstation if things don't change in some major way. A major change in my book would basically need a big fuck-up from Sony, and a (possibly) slightly smaller Tflop count certainly isn't one.
Also, imo people aren't going to just hop between ecosystems chasing the most powerful console, bc it's just not that easy to change. You have your trophies/achievements, bc-games, invested time, familiarity. It's time and money invested in a big way.
Perhaps my division of camps was a bit extreme. I also think that it isn't black and white but more of a gray area. Wasn't trying to be fanboyish or whatever. I agree with the rest of your post.
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