I am just pointing at that, yes, dev in a studio knows specs that other people in it doesn't. And I don't think a QA person needs to know the specs to do his work. A dev does (by specs I mean target specs).
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Not before November, I reckon.
They've still got plenty of time to get set up.
Very few developers get the first version of the kit anyways and the final kit, like the really final one, devs get those only months from launch, like six months. Albert Panelo had a great post about that. That's why launch games are always terrible, developers don't get final hardware until months before launch so the team works in uncertainty until the very last part of development.
This is from Albert:
Jesus Christ, you are a hoot (pun intended).
Depends, I worked at big companies with thousands of employees like Amdocs and Elbit, I worked at medium size startups like Guesty and I've worked in ~10 people startups that built POS as SAAS that I rather not say the company's name. In all of them I was a Software Engineer, at different ranks. There are things that are on a need to know basis that no one tells you, there are things you can't tell other people, etc.. Even with a small 10 person startup (which in it I was #3) there were things I couldn't tell the lower-ranking employees.
How can a spec sheet say what it is NOT? A spec sheet would mention the TF, that is why nobody is supporting the insiders. None of them have given hard data except some vague comments. I understand that they have NDAs, but, in that case, it is better to say nothing at all. OMHO ofc.
I'm saying we have no idea and trying to reach any sort of conclusion in terms of the PS5s power through MS's way of talking about their own console is completely nonsense.
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PS5 yes but no official spec for the CPU has been announced by MS Besides AMD Zen 2z no cores and definitely no GHz.
As Software Engineer, did you work, yourself, on project you didn't knew the target specs ?
I know about NDA, I am under NDA too.
If all the specs are the same between the ps5 and xsx expect 9 vs 12 TF they would be very close in power. Even moreso if Sony has something like a better SSD solution.
8 core 16 thread has been known for a while now.
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sorry but checked the link, I only saw custom AMD Zen 2. Nothing about cores or threads.
yes, the likely scenario is 8/16 but MS has not said anything official yet. I don't even remember if the windows central leak with the 12 Tf said anything about the CPU.
Ahh ok, I must be getting mixed up. there was a table when I look showing 8 core Zen 2. I cant see it being anything else either.
This gave me flashback from when people used to go on similarly about Sony/Blueray. Anyway, is this even true? And if so, is that how the deal is structured? For each console sale MS gets a percentage? How do we know Sony didn't just pay a fixed amount for the services?
Not much more than a TF's difference between the two, I believe that the PS5 will be in the range of 11-13TF, possibly a little higher or lower, not enough to make a big difference.
Although, I don't rule out that there could be a greater disparity with the difference being made up via some other fancy tech.
I feel the same way about the so called 9.2 vs 12 gap.
I would say MS is doing everything mostly right in the service and hardware category. I still need to hear about price and exclusives that aren't Halo/Gears/Forza, though, before I actually decide to drop money on it. My 1X with GamePass could keep me satisfied for the next 2 years if the price and games are not that exciting.
Did we ever get any confirmation that a deal was finalized regarding the Azure servers? Because all the announcements I've seen were about a MoU, and that ain't a deal, fam.
yeah, it was a bit more complicated as a deal, it was also a deal about AI and imaging sensors, so both companies did okay out of it.
no there is no actual deal as far as we know just a Memorandum of Understanding. The claim of a finalized deal is nonsense.
I thought Sony had moved some stuff outside of playstation to the azure servers already.
Agreed. Companies this large tend to have complicated relationships. Microsoft and Sony are both well diversified companies, so they probably pay each other for various reasons. Anyone using Android tends to pay MS for IP reasons, and I'm sure MS has to pay Sony for their AV related IP as well.
There's no contract per se. As far as we publicly know they're still negotiating a deal. That's all the MoU is - an agreement to negotiate as yet unsigned contracts.
In the meantime PS Now patters on with its own infrastructure as before. They could continue to build on that to serve the PS5 launch period, if they want PS5 streaming sooner rather than later.
Nope. Not that we know of, anyway.
(In terms of 'do they know each others' specs', though, I think this is all immaterial - I'm sure they do, unofficially)
If you think one year before release when a few people in a studio have the information, other don't have it. I would say end of 2019 studios receiving spec sheet and having devkits all game engine, rendering developers and artist were knowing the spec. This is not 18 mnths before release. and he said his friend is one lead.
He never said the XSX have 64 CUs, this was not the first time he does it. He just said your maths are ok. He said it another times to someone before this because he find it amusing. Every littleword he said was interpreted someone remembering what he said first time said he just said the maths are ok and he said bingo. He will never give any number linked to CUs or other things particulary when you gave your identity before.
The only things he said clearly is XSX is a bit above 12 Tflops RDNA. And he said target specs of PS5 a bit above XSX.
But we don't need confirmation, people forget why he talk the first time. He talked because people were saying Andrew Reiner(Gameinformer) is a liar and they worked together at EGM and he said people have no idea about how credible Andrew Reiner. From the first day he said what Andrew Reiner told is true.
No, all they did was sign a memorandum of understanding for exploring a potential partnership.
Oh okay, i thought Crackle had been moved or something.
Doesn't matter, i obviously got the wrong end of the stick.
So here is what I'm getting at. This thread is divided into two camps:
A. You believe Klee and the other insiders. If you do the PS5 is more powerful. No middle ground. It is. The question is then by how much is it more powerful.
B. You don't believe that and you think the github thing is more relevant. I.E 9tf PS5. It seems according to this thread you have to subscribe to one or the other. You can't be 'well we don't really know' because if you are saying that you are also saying Klee is incorrect.
What the below guy said, its very dangerous to run at those frequencies with that many units.
it wasn't even a contract. It was a notice of intent for them to explore options
Yeah, i don't pay attention to the things so i just have a hazy memory of Kaz doing a deal.
That's a shame i was hoping for some interesting AI stuff coming out of it.
No you can believe other insider than Klee and Andrew Reiner. For example Matt and jschreier said the console are close in power without saying which one is more powerful. It means target specs were higher on Sony side but it doees not means final version of the console will be more powerful on Sony just that the consoles will be very close at the end. And Klee told too, he said maybe at the end, the Xbox will be more powerful.
Thank you for your sane take on this situation!
Me too....well mostly because of the one who reported me and the mod that banned me.... Took all the fun and life out of this thread for me.
Also agree with the rest of your post.
Don't think it was the weak part but the part of it being weaker, expensive and MS privacy problems.
Klee did have a single source... who he met up 2 times in 2019. Also he didn't double down on lockhart being cancelled. When news came out that it still being worked on he was the only one who took"responsibility" for his words. The rest didn't do anything like that.
Lol you went to a expensive restaurant didn't you? :) Some do ask that for burgers in Europe lol......
I paid 35euros for a pasta that tasted like chicken nuggets..... We need to research better places :P
Lol that is not splitting hairs..... You said launch exclusive... It's not.
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From the looks of it the cooling soultion would have to be that's running in Space :P.
I agree with this, attempts have been made to rectify the two seemingly contradictions by saying MS really meant power equivalents at lower Tflop counts. MS specifically tore down that theory and confirmed 12Tflops RDNA2. So now we have a situation where the PS5 has to have both a lower BoM and higher or at least similar performance for Klee to be true. Meanwhile the reports of lower BoM for PS5 line up with the lower performance of the github leak and further reinforced by Sony's own statements of waiting for the XSX price before announcing theirs.
I've never worked on desecrate hardware, but I did work on projects with NDAs and I had to work with DLL files that I was not allowed to know their contenet, a black box, which I could use but know nothing about.
In addition, it seems that you are being very specific about software developers which is true, a lot of them do need to know the specs, but developer at a gaming company is a much more general term, every artist and designer are also developers. By now probably most of a given studio knows everything, but last year it probably wasn't the case.
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I actually don't know what his friend role is, he is a tech lead?
Yeah, MS didn't seem to have mentioned the core count of the XSX's CPU yet.
So that is the first time I've heard that. Pretty much the narrative that I have read has been 'All insider's have said the PS5 has the edge and 'Nothing has changed.'
I am team C then.
The one that believes both are accurate, but that github didn't tell the complete story basically. It wouldn't even make much sense.
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