None of those things are as specific as the list of stuff he demanded, which was my entire point. He claimed that what Klee gave was too vague, and what you've listed here is equally vague.
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None of those things are as specific as the list of stuff he demanded, which was my entire point. He claimed that what Klee gave was too vague, and what you've listed here is equally vague.
Switch has the smallest numbers, but nobody cares. It's got great third party support and top notch first party games and thats why it's kicking ass the way it is. People dont care for numbers outside of forums.. most people are oblivious to numbers. and even views on a site like Digital Foundary highlights this. If MS nails their first party output, they have a winner on their hands. If they bring back a franchise like Steel Battalion (OG and not that garbage Kinect one) or Chromehounds for example, I would be sucked into their ecosystem.
Right now they only have 1 game that interests me and that's Flight Simulator... which I will play on pc (mid range), if they convince me with 5-10 exclusives, I would consider a Series X.
I both agree and disagree with you.
I don't believe they are fucking up staying silent. I also don't think anyone will care once they finally reveal everything.
But people will still remember how silent they were mostly because of how crazy it made people lol
Most of the time, yes, but not in this case. I've already explained why in previous posts, I'm not going over it a third time.
Why were they disasters? Their messaging and communication was beyond atrocious and tone deaf. Right now it's the same tone deaf play book being used.
And let's not forget the infamous, work more hours quote. Jim Ryan is still getting dinged on backwards compatibility quotes even leading to the PS5.
Your assumption is that they will announce a console that blows everyone out of the water because of their silence, but if it's anything but amazing and just OK or even worse, then their silence will be looked at as doubt in their product.
Again, and I'll make the point clear, if their console announcement is anything less than stellar, their silence leading up to the reveals will be remembered as a lack of confidence in the product.
? Dont understand. What will be the same? Either way what?
Why were they disasters? Their messaging and communication was beyond atrocious and tone deaf. Right now it's the same tone deaf play book being used.
And let's not forget the infamous, work more hours quote. Jim Ryan is still getting dinged on backwards compatibility quotes even leading to the PS5.
Your assumption is that they will announce a console that blows everyone out of the water because of their silence, but if it's anything but amazing and just OK or even worse, then their silence will be looked at as doubt in their product.
Again, and I'll make the point clear, if their console announcement is anything less than stellar, their silence leading up to the reveals will be remembered as a lack of confidence in the product.
Don Mattrick almost killed the xbox brand,
NVM, i was thinking about Phil Harrison... my bad...
-Mark Cerny via WIRED interview
Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation
Don't expect it anytime in 2019, but the next PlayStation console is well on its way—and it's packing ray-tracing support and a loadtime-killing solid-state hard drive.
Why were they disasters? Their messaging and communication was beyond atrocious and tone deaf. Right now it's the same tone deaf play book being used.
And let's not forget the infamous, work more hours quote. Jim Ryan is still getting dinged on backwards compatibility quotes even leading to the PS5.
Your assumption is that they will announce a console that blows everyone out of the water because of their silence, but if it's anything but amazing and just OK or even worse, then their silence will be looked at as doubt in their product.
Again, and I'll make the point clear, if their console announcement is anything less than stellar, their silence leading up to the reveals will be remembered as a lack of confidence in the product.
lmao you cant be serious
Haha. To be fair, Sony are taking the Crackdown 3 approach to marketing this new console. At least CD3 got released eventually though, so there's hope yet.
What market group is that? Because the general public aren't making their purchasing decisions based on teraflops. Marketing is always more effective when you show not just tell. Dropping specs is interesting to a niche group. Showing what those specs do is much more appealing to the larger audience.
serious that messaging and tone deaf approaches to marketing hurt products? Yes I'm not making an equivalent I'm pointing out that marketing, language, and communication about a product at things that consumers remember. Not saying there will be this level of mistakes made, the point is product communication is remembered.
the Switch is doing pretty remarkable after Ninty dropped support for the Wii U prematurely. But Sega garnered no confidence whatsoever in the Dreamcast partly because of how they dropped support for the Saturn.Why were they disasters? Their messaging and communication was beyond atrocious and tone deaf. Right now it's the same tone deaf play book being used.
And let's not forget the infamous, work more hours quote. Jim Ryan is still getting dinged on backwards compatibility quotes even leading to the PS5.
Your assumption is that they will announce a console that blows everyone out of the water because of their silence, but if it's anything but amazing and just OK or even worse, then their silence will be looked at as doubt in their product.
Again, and I'll make the point clear, if their console announcement is anything less than stellar, their silence leading up to the reveals will be remembered as a lack of confidence in the product.
Superficially, it may appear one may succeed and other not for the same reasons, but there are lateral strategies at play. Not only were MS tone deaf... but forced Kinect no one asked for and entered the market far more expensive than their competitor.
In the same vein.. Sony has said or done nothing on the level of what MS did or said, their just being silent and casual gamers, in fact, most gamers outside of forums are anticipating TLOU2 and Ghosts and dont even know PS5 will release this year... until Sony tells them to be prepared for it.
Same as what happens with Iphones for examplem. Enthusiasts scour the internet for news on the next one.. waiting months and months in anticipation, examining this or that patent. In the end... it dawns on everyone a new Iphone is being released only when the company says "see our future phone on this date".
I cant understand why people are of the belief theres a reason other than timing behind Sony being silent. I am thirsty for information... but when the time comes, all will be revealed.
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Yes, that's exactly true, data is encapsulated and layered inside studios so different people have different levels of access. That exactly the reason why insiders are problematic. Klee's knowledge could be fourth hand info for all we know; even inside studios, in an 18 months timeframe from launch, knowledge about next-gen is hearsay for most developers. You are getting who-knows-what-hand information from a person who gives it to you the vaguest possible way. Up until this day people are arguing about what his "you can do the math" post was referring to.
How can you even infer anything from that kind of information? I'll take a real leak with hard numbers like Flute or Github any day over vague riddles from someone with fourth-hand information relevant to who knows when.
Regarding Github, Oberon is the PS5's iGPU, you don't get to E0 stepping weeks from near-final form console (like the one Phil took home in December) with a dead APU. There is no stealth chip that we haven't heard about. The only question is, is Oberon 36 CUs or not. Github suggests it is, but it was compiled by a messy intern so it's open for interpretation. Is it possible that it's over 36? Sure. Is it possible it's 36? Sure. Does a cryptic 4th's hand rumor make 36 CU impossible? No, it doesn't.
I've largely stayed out of this thread because it's the same ten people arguing the same things for weeks but I think the Switch completely nerfs the argument that not announcing the PS5 right after Microsoft announced their new console is a mistake. I know the audiences are more similar but it is just humorous how anyone could seriously compare the XB1 reveal to the PS5. I know some of you are desperate for a particular narrative but you should probably wait for the actual announcement before frothing at the mouth.
Sony unwilling to change their plans to feed few hundred thirsty hardcore players doesnt mean they are being tone deaf.
They have revealed plenty about the consoles, and all of the revealed info is very positive to the gamer.
Hell who expected an SSD before it was revealed?!
really?
They have revealed plenty about the consoles, and all of the revealed info is very positive to the gamer.
Hell who expected an SSD before it was revealed?!
really?
Okay 👌🏼
I mean, yeah, people can and will bring it up now and then, but does it really matter in the long run? I highly doubt that
I can agree with your points to some extent, but this is basically presuming Sony has fucked up with their next gen console. So far there's nothing pointing towards that as their silence could be down to a number of factors. If their product reveal is less than stellar, then yes, they deserve every flak and backlash they got. However, until that happens, let's not jump the gun, yeah?Why were they disasters? Their messaging and communication was beyond atrocious and tone deaf. Right now it's the same tone deaf play book being used.
And let's not forget the infamous, work more hours quote. Jim Ryan is still getting dinged on backwards compatibility quotes even leading to the PS5.
Your assumption is that they will announce a console that blows everyone out of the water because of their silence, but if it's anything but amazing and just OK or even worse, then their silence will be looked at as doubt in their product.
Again, and I'll make the point clear, if their console announcement is anything less than stellar, their silence leading up to the reveals will be remembered as a lack of confidence in the product.
Steel Battalion and Chromehounds were fat from being popular games, no way they are coming back. MS has several good exclusives and more in the pipeline.
Switch doesn't compare. Most people play it in portable mode and it is viewed as a portable/3DS replacement more than as a main system like Xbox and PS. I don't know anyone that has a switch as their primary (except maybe for Nintendo diehards), it's always alongside as PS4, Xbox One or PC.
They may not make their decisions based on a single teraflop number. But when something like what happened this gen happens (where even the general press constantly hammered the message that xbone was super weak) it definitely impact people buying decisions.
Either way, the point was about the enthusiastic crowd. The ones that know and care about the specs and the ones that are making noise because they want to know more.
Yeah, it was damn near spot on for Series X.
The thing is:
Sony were, are working on BC for PS5.
MS took care of that during this gen.
They both do BC differently.
If that's the case...how can we say what we see for Oberon is final? And what was it supposed to show? I asked many pages ago maybe that's what the extra work was for, a bug in the total cu count? Maybe it got stuck in BC mode.
That data that said 'already fixed in Oberon', maybe that was Ariel data?
Ariel is the 36, 40 cu chip? Used for testing?
Oberon has more?
And that's why I wanted to start talking about it again. Ppl aren't still saying that now are they, lol.
IMO, each day something new is found out about the results, the more I'm convinced....its not confirmation of anything.
As far as Klee, he said no more GCN, they both RDNA.
He said a lil more than 12tf after the awards show. Ppl are still debating about that right now. "Could be 11.9"
Remember when ppl were still debating about GCN vs RDNA for Series X until recently...?
To me, for PS5, it's easy to not take github as confirmation of anything except maybe BC testing.
The issue with this is the Xbox One X didn't rise like a Phoenix and close in on the 110 million ps4 sales, and it was sold at discount many a time.
Didn't Klee himself said he had only a single source? That he met once at e3 and gave him some details and then later he reached again to clarify some information, and apparently ended up receiving a spec sheet.
If that's the case I don't see how any of that is definitive that the only outcome is that he is lying.
I mean it's already not a perfect track record with him doubling down on Lockhart being canceled and the February event. What makes the other data bullet proof that it's impossible to be wrong or outdated unless he lied?
Its an old patent, possibly for a cancelled "dualshock 4 pro" controller
Sony Patents DualShock 4-Like Controller With More Buttons and Different Configurations (UPDATED)
Update: the patent appears to be identical to an old one registered by Sony back in 2014. This means that the designs showcased are probably allwww.dualshockers.com
Its possible some ideas got through to the DS5, but considering we have no evidence of some of those extra buttons existence, they are likely not in the planning anymore.
Would love to see the paddles make it through, but we do not need more face buttons. Paddles are meant to take us away from moving our thumbs between sticks and buttons on a regular basis.
A scroll wheel on each shoulder though...
Sony has put together a schedule for when to announce the specs, the games, etc in a way they believe is going to maximize marketing. Some of that may have been delayed anticipating the Coronavirus.
People getting "worried" is part of the plan. Because when Sony finally gets around to it, everyone is going to be talking about it.
Maybe trust that the company that has an entire marketing wing, probably has some idea of what they're doing.
I'm just as irritated with the wait as anyone else, but that's on me. Stop assuming it'll happen on our time schedule.
It was a mid gen refresh, and to be completely fair it did propelled Xbox sales for a while.
Of course it would never make a dent as the image of xbone was severely damaged already.
Also it never made to the press like it was for early xbone. On the contrary if anything the press diminished the differences between the X and Pro.
Neither of these launch stories are true.
The Dreamcast has an excellent launch but was simply beat out in competition by the PS2. In fact Sony communicated its product and specs early specifically to hedge off Dreamcast success, Dreamcast has sold 1.5 million consoles in its first few months in the US. In reality Sega even announced that Saturn was dead at E3 1997 and that they were moving on to the next console.
On the flip side, the switch was announced 2 YEARS before launch in 2015, and subsequent data drops and communication over the next two years before release.
As I said, the standard for console launches has been a lot of consistent communication at least 12 months to 2 years in advance. The myth of cannabalization of current games and consoles hasn't really applied because at the tail end of the generation you're only appealing to price conscious casuals anyway.
I don't know of any marketing plans where getting your consumers worried about your product is a viable strategy.
Thank you! It's so rare to get a voice of reason in this thread. Saying Sony is taking a tone deaf approach is pure ignorance and honestly fuel for fanboy wars. The fact that revealing a fucking logo blew up on social media shows that their marketing plans are going well.
Face it, the only people getting "worried" are concerned trolls and people on an enthusiast forum living in their own bubble. Everyone else is too busy with their day to day life to be wondering if PS5 is 9.2TFlops or 13TFlops. The slide presentation at CES is enough to give the average Joe confidence that PS5 will be a great machine with excellent features. Perhaps step out of the Era bubble and see that
True. People here say Sony is silent but they revealed much more compared what they revealed with PS4 7 years ago. We know almost everything except price and gpu TF. Even if they stay silent till May/June is alright
I'm pretty sure the bit about most people not knowing about PS5 is incorrect at least. Sales are slowing down for a reason, everyone knows next-gen is coming dude. I doubt most gamers are anticipating TLOU2 or Ghosts either. Most people just play COD, Fifa, GTA, etc. and that's what they buy Consoles for, not exclusives. The reason Sony won this gen so handily is not because of those exclusives (sure, they sell like 5-10 Mil a pop, occasionally more, but that's only like 10% of PS4's current install base), but because of their marketing, Imo. They came out as the antithesis of everything MS was doing and represented, and it resonated with people in the gaming community in a way I have never seen before or since.
"Can't play used games or go offline on Xbox? Guess what, on PS4 you can (everyone surely remembers that used game sharing vid they did, right?)! Don't want to pay extra for inferior hardware and a crappy peripheral you don't want to use? Guess what, PS4 is cheaper and has no awful accessories bundled in! Want a Console that's focused on games instead of watching TV? Then PS4 is the Console for you!"
I still remember their E3 conference, and the reaction of the crowds to it, never seen anything like it in gaming. I truly believe that strong marketing is what propelled them to the number one spot this gen. I know it's what made me buy a PS4 over Xbox. It definitely wasn't the exclusives, it took years for those to come out anyway.
Now, do I think they absolutely need to put on a show like that again to win this gen? No, because of all the momentum and goodwill they built with PS4, but I do think it will absolutely hurt them if they don't start talking about this thing. I know the Sony from the start of this gen wouldn't have waited or let Xbox get ahead of them like this. I do agree with others that it feels like either Sony isn't confident in their product at this point, or are overconfident in it. I don't think either scenario is good.
Except that by now in 2013 we actually have the full PS4 specs and saw like half a dozen exclusives :)
When Sony will want to do an event (press conference or even just a stream), we will know about it weeks in advance. It's not like they are dropping the PS5 event/stream in a 48 hours notice. So I think we can be sure that the event/stream won't happen until at least the end of March if not later. I mean, that's a later reveal schedule compared to the PS4, no matter how you look at it. It's not that there is anything wrong with it, Sony can start their blitz in July and still get all the attention and press coverage, I'm just stating a fact :)
But who knows, maybe we will get another shadow dropped Wired article.
Enthusiasts know, but as far as I can tell, IGN, Gamespot, DF and Resetera dont have 110 million members... enthusiasts know.. and I am truly agitated as hell waiting for them to say something.
But.. we are a minority in the big picture.
Sales are slow because it's six years into a gen.. mainly. Theres other factors, but thats the main one I think.
Hmm, Idk man. Maybe, but PS5 is all I ever hear people talk about, lol.
Preach.
Exactly....
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Most are worried because they are impatient or because they are reading into things that aren't there. None of which is going to matter when it all comes out.
This definitely seems like an enthusiast-bubble sort of thing to me.
I mean, for starters, there's all of Nintendo's primary demographic of families to consider, which aren't necessarily "Nintendo diehards."
A lot of people buy a Switch to play Mario Kart together. Maybe they'll buy a handful of other games, and maybe they won't. Diehards.
Era generally overestimates the number of people who have multiple systems that they actively play games on.
No, his source is allegedly an old friend of his who is a developer working on a next-gen game, who he has visited on holiday multiple times and who showed him a full video of the in-dev game running in real time. I can't see a scenario where this dev has access to a video like that but not to the spec information needed to do his job, and in that case the spec info he gave Klee has to be correct - unless Klee is lying about the entire thing.
As I already explained before, specs are set in stone in a way that those things aren't. His Lockhart information was correct outside of his understandable assumption that his dev friend not having a devkit meant it didn't exist anymore. The Feb event thing is meaningless because of all the recent COVID-19 cancellations. Specs, on the other hand are hard-locked 2 years in advance. They can't simply be changed in the relevant timeframe like an event date. They especially can't change from 12+TF to a 36CU/2GHz chip.
MykhellMikado The only time I see people "worried" or fake worry from "very concerned people" whatever, is here, or on other enthusiast sites. Meanwhile my friends are looking forward to the next season of Destiny 2, Division 2, TLOU2, replaying Bloodborne AGAIN, Resident Evil 3, Ghosts and FF7R. They aren't worried about the next console, they are more looking forward to today. The general gaming public is not worried.
I am not worried or concerned, I have definitely been impatient but have learned to stop and just focus on things I can control. I can't control Sony, so why worry?
I am not worried or concerned, I have definitely been impatient but have learned to stop and just focus on things I can control. I can't control Sony, so why worry?
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As someone who works in product marketing and has been a part of the video game industry for a number of years, nothing about Sony's approach is tone deaf or is hurting their products. In fact, their marketing so far has been perfectly normal and in-line with what I thought it would be.
Also, I don't think any sizeable portion of their consumer base is honestly worried about their product. Even if they were, a certain portion of every market is going to knee jerk panic about things and you don't plan your entire strategy around that 1-2% (if that) of your base anyways since they were pretty much always going to panic.
Sony knows what they are doing, have patience :) Also, try not to project how you personally feel on a whole wide market filled with millions of people, that leads to false conclusions.
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It all comes down to brand, games and consumer interest and markets, nothing else matters, no teraflops, no price, nothing else.
Here in Germany, they sold Xbox One S consoles for 99€(!) during BF and NO ONE bought them, because people just don't care for the Xbox. Hardcore gamers will probably get both consoles on launch, Mid-Hardcore gamers will get their favourite/or the most powerful on launch and the other one later for a discount, and parents buy their kids a Playstation or a "Nintendo", because that's what their kids want and that's the only brands they know when it comes to gaming.
Sadly in some regions, Xbox will never get a good marketshare no matter what they do, unless Sony goes out of business.
I work in SEO. The explanation for that is pretty common. PlayStation has market share. The more popular/common often doesn't have google searches of people curious about it. A PlayStation fan will rarely google it. They have sites that they visit directly and engage with the brand in different ways. People that are less familiar with a brand/business will google it to learn about it. Xbox usually trends higher because fewer people are as familiar with it. It's meant to show emerging trends. Finding emerging trends is basically my job.
What's really crazy about Google Trends is the Switch. It's a powerhouse in sales yet searched far more than the other two. That means more people are curious/unfamiliar with the Switch than the other two consoles at this moment so I don't expect its sales to fall behind anytime soon. 🤔
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