Klee is this you? What lol ? He said what he needed to say it's all in the threadmarksWHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
Klee is this you? What lol ? He said what he needed to say it's all in the threadmarksWHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
WHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
He asked for the ban because he felt that he was becoming a distraction to the thread and had said everything he was comfortable saying. May come back but nothing confirmed.WHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
I want to believe this.A late merry Christmas and happy new year to everyone.
Final predictions
Ps5
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.2ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1870mhz =13.4tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
XsX
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.4ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1700mhz =12.18tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
SC already did, it had allowed for a 64-bit world map which is HUGE. But it also allows for different level designs and gameplay features while keeping development much easier and streamlined.
I don't know and that's often where the best stuff comes from! Maybe it will happen!
I did just feel that excitement playing through Boneworks, though, so it's still possible.
That's the thing - if games are still built with Xbox One in mind, will that come to pass?First, though, I'm really looking forward to seamless SSD level design.
We talked about it more in previous threads but here is a summary, but tbh it's just scratching the surface of what is possible. Next gen will offer huge opportunities creatively.Other than Spider-Man swinging through a city, can I get some examples of this fundamental design change?
Faster load times and reduced pop-in aside, how would the game have benefited from SSD? The fly through demo while looks cool does not translate well to real world gameplay. The limiting factor is here how fast the player can interpret data on screen and react accordingly, no matter how fast you stream the data in.
- Coming back to this btw for anyone who is interested the section on streaming starts at 14:50.
- The exact details on how fast Spidey moves and how much they need to load — and how much time they have to do so (0.8-1.33 seconds) start at 17:22.
- Complications that can affect the timing, eg what else the PS4 is in the middle of doing + non-standard HDDs start at 18:20.
- They also cover how multiple sizes of tiles are loaded on demand and the perf budgets they have to do that / tricks they use to get around it. Vitamin B is right, everyone should take a look at this.
- EDIT: " forgot to add there is a section on how they did the transition between an open world and an instanced interior of the building in the first main mission at 21:14. There is an interesting specific phrase he uses where he says that they initially wanted to be able to not have load times and show the method they use to mask the transitional process that uses a cutscene to mask realtime culling and new asset generation — but in the end its was very time consuming and they had to give up on it and go with load screens. This is definitely something that will play a part in how future games are designed.
- Storage of assets / duplication is covered from 22:50 onwards.
SSDs are going to do a lot more than people will even realise / perceive.
To add to what others are saying about guaranteed high-speed SSDs, I don't know if you have ever noticed this, but in games where you transition from an exterior place to an interior gameplay space, you will notice that the sizes never really match up.
Transitions between them are also normally very carefully controlled in order to mask that a second model is being loaded for you to move into. In the Insomniac Spidey GDC, they showed an example of the first main mission and a whole bunch of controlled camera work, an LoD model, and aggressive asset culling to make the transition seamless. They also mentioned that it took them a long time to do and so weren't able to do it in more places that they wanted to because it would have made the dev cycle take too long. In the end it meant that they had to give in and go with conventional loads for areas where they definitely wouldn't have wanted to.
If you can guarantee beast mode data streaming then all of those limitations disappear. Not just the obvious removal of initial loads, but also any kind of trickery needed to mask transitions. You can also make physically accurate game spaces that load immediately and have transitions from exterior to interior spaces (and reverse) become immediate. If they combine that with a good procedural asset generation pipeline you could do stuff like literally make every building in a game world be accurately sized and be visitable.
Think of what that could do for a game like Spidey or GTA or any other game set in a modern city or open world. Think of what it could do for a No Man's Sky type of game but AAA and going from different parts of a planets to different planets to ships to space stations to wormholes and everything in between. Without needing to resort to heavy data duplication current gen games do to run off a HDD.
High speed storage doesn't just open up options for faster loading – it offers opportunities to change game design while retaining high quality performance. I'm extremely excited to see what doors it opens creatively.
Can't wait for the epic Kratos Vs Thor fight where one punch literally sends you into another realm.
I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such. That is a much more simple hardware metric to take advantage of than rewriting the entire way your engine loads data from disk and puts it into memory and then designing entire game systems around that. SSDs at the beginning will primarily be used to speed up game loading, making it pretty trivial. That is not a large change to game design though.strange , should we not expect major changes in gamedesign given that we will have for the first time SSDs in Consoles?
WHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
I just want to see a huge Fenrir. It's going to be monstrous.Can't wait for the epic Kratos Vs Thor fight where one punch literally sends you into another realm.
I would also add a game where the main mechanic is dragging a file from a folder in drive C: to drive D:.SSDs: What type of games will benefit the most from it? IMO:
Examples (only 3rd party because otherwise someone will try to start another pointless Xbox vs Playstation):
- Games with fast paced change of scenery
- Games with lots of objects in a scene and major changes in movement
- Games with Ad Hoc fights in an arena (common in JRPGs)
- Grand Theft Auto, Watch Dogs -> especially when driving
- Racing games -> better environments and no more tricks with 2D models
- RPGs with bigger towns -> The Witcher 3 and lots going on there, The Division
- Open World games in general like AC
That's the thing - if games are still built with Xbox One in mind, will that come to pass?
Patching Simulator.I would also add a game where the main mechanic is dragging a file from a folder in drive C: to drive D:.
They will be on the same disc.I'm puzzled why MS not developing 1st-party exclusives for Scarlet in the launch period is leading people to believe that the cross-gen titles will be on the same disc.
That's not going to happen until a certain point in time, and we don't know when that is. It may never happen, xbox games might simply get rebranded "xbox" and you have to check icons for support of your particular hardware. I posted earlier in the thread but seemingly nobody wanted to discuss.I fully expect every Scarlet physical release to be on a 100GB(+) BDXL disc with new branding.
Let me have my dream.This is impossible. The die size of the Xbox Series X is 380 to 407 mm2. You can' go hihger. At best it will b around 12 Tflops for PS5.
Will they ? Microsoft will not force 3rd party to develop game also for x one ;)That's the thing - if games are still built with Xbox One in mind, will that come to pass?
Oh, I'm sure it'll be a significant tech leap. It's just that...it feels like next-gen is going to be akin to a PC graphics card upgrade rather than an actual new console launch. There's a distinct difference there for me.
First party games but we'll see how it goes.Will they ? Microsoft will not force 3rd party to develop game also for x one ;)
Haha but will be fun comparsion to watch :-)First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
WHY THE HELL GOT KLEEGAMEFAN BANNED!
Our #1 reliable source is GONE! Dumbasses!
Imagine the workload on developers that have to make sure it runs well on the S and X :)First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
And Sutr. His sword was huge when you saw it in Muspelheim which means he should be massive. Like GoW1 (PS2) Ares size
Copy.exe is a game for you? :)I would also add a game where the main mechanic is dragging a file from a folder in drive C: to drive D:.
This, very much. Games jump should be PS2->X360 at the very least. I would prefer SNES->N64, of course.This gen was a new gfx card where this gen feels like a new console.
Only the Ram saw a good jump last gen and the GPU was okay .
This gen everything is a huge jump.
That's the thing - if games are still built with Xbox One in mind, will that come to pass?
Don't forget the business aspect of it, which is especially at the beginning of a new gen --> install base old gen --> potential buyersFirst party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
This is my assumption as well. Good post.I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such. That is a much more simple hardware metric to take advantage of than rewriting the entire way your engine loads data from disk and puts it into memory and then designing entire game systems around that. SSDs at the beginning will primarily be used to speed up game loading, making it pretty trivial. That is not a large change to game design though.
I imagine most games will still be pretty traditional for a while - dedicated levels, dedicated cutscenes, dedicated front ends/uis for each area of the game (multiplayer/singleplayer/etc.). Not every game needs to be 100% seamless all the time / give the player full agency necessarily. The spider man camera thing that they demod on PS5 is just a test case. On ps4 the camera was hardware limited to a certain degree to a certain speed, faster than that speed, the game would probably stutter as it loaded in objects too slowly from disk. But how necessary is it for most games out there, honestly, that the camera move really rapidly? Spiderman/the player won't need to move that quickly!
Only later on, and then, only for games that need it (for which many have no need for it), will some developers leverage the different way SSDs can do loading vs. before.
Yes, it's awful for them too! I've yet to speak with a developer that likes working on Xbox One S - so I'd imagine there is disappointment in needing to support it going forward. It's a very troubled machine.Imagine the workload on developers that have to make sure it runs well on the S and X :)
I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such. That is a much more simple hardware metric to take advantage of than rewriting the entire way your engine loads data from disk and puts it into memory and then designing entire game systems around that. SSDs at the beginning will primarily be used to speed up game loading, making it pretty trivial. That is not a large change to game design though.
I imagine most games will still be pretty traditional for a while - dedicated levels, dedicated cutscenes, dedicated front ends/uis for each area of the game (multiplayer/singleplayer/etc.). Not every game needs to be 100% seamless all the time / give the player full agency necessarily.
Especially if it is running like trash. Who wants to cover that let alone spend the time away from the more interesting thing? (the next gen version)First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
You sure you read what I wrote? I said that it will trivialise loading. That does not mean every game though will suddenly have a 100% seemless world thnough.Do you really not see games similar to Jedi Fallen Order getting rid of all the masked loading very quickly? Having all these great ideas for level designs and then having to restrict them and split them up and load them with ways to slow the player (and kill the pacing) sounds like such a tremendous pain in the ass, and it crossed me as the sort of thing devs would be desperate to escape from ASAP to the point of preparing for it in advance.
Done got me hyped. I like transition stuff of that sort.A multigenerational GTA story epic set in 3 different time periods. Decisions made in the past instantly manifest in the present. (Back to the Future style). You swap in and out at will. The landscape changes through time at your command.
Game designers are rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospect.
First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
Will it be physics that actually affect gameplay (Control) or just minor stuff like Lara's axe bouncing dynamically on her belt? That's what I want to know.I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such.
This, very much. Games jump should be PS2->X360 at the very least. I would prefer SNES->N64, of course.
You sure you read what I wrote? I said that it will trivialise loading. That does not mean every game though will suddenly have a 100% seemless world thnough.
I've acquired some hidden camera footage of you at the Redmond headquarters:Yes, it's awful for them too! I've yet to speak with a developer that likes working on Xbox One S - so I'd imagine there is disappointment in needing to support it going forward. It's a very troubled machine.
First party games and i would add Rockstar in that category as well.First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
Imagine the pain for a first party dev coding and testing for Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X and potentially Xbox Lockhart.
I also hate the fact that a lot of developers need to still keep Xbox One S in mind while coding. Either the game is going to get compromised by that console or that specific build for the console is going to be horrible.
Imagine the workload on developers that have to make sure it runs well on the S and X :)
Happy new year! Welcome back!A late merry Christmas and happy new year to everyone.
Final predictions
Ps5
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.2ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1870mhz =13.4tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
XsX
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.4ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1700mhz =12.18tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
Breath of the wild sequel where link plays a melody and the world changes around him. What's more "Nintendo" than having a dual world design. Zelda OOT with the past and future worlds, Metroid Prime 2 with the dark world, imagine that in real-time changing around you :)For a while I've been envisaging a racing game like say, Mario Kart, where a pickup item like the lightning bolt doesn't make everyone smaller but completely changes the track either immediately or in realtime similar to the wavey visual effect when you land a huge jump while in Tricky status in SSX (2012). Whatever race strategy you had now needs to change immediately to adapt...
Or one where you can chose to play a set of tracks together as a "playlist" course and they all seamlessly transition from one to another as you cross the staring line for each for example. The latter could probably be done now with some smart asset caching, but I don't see how the former could happen without either eating a load of RAM or an SSD.
First party games but we'll see how it goes.
Either way, I realize that, personally, it just comes down to workload. I really don't like the idea of having to include all last-gen consoles in videos in addition to the new ones. It might be the straw that breaks my back! It's just too much.
Do you have any specific ideas about what next gen tech would enable from a gameplay/game design standpoint?I think the first major changes to game design vs. what we saw this gen will be due to CPU advantages at the start of the generation. More AI, more complex physics, more unique objects on screen and such. That is a much more simple hardware metric to take advantage of than rewriting the entire way your engine loads data from disk and puts it into memory and then designing entire game systems around that. SSDs at the beginning will primarily be used to speed up game loading, making it pretty trivial. That is not a large change to game design though.
I imagine most games will still be pretty traditional for a while - dedicated levels, dedicated cutscenes, dedicated front ends/uis for each area of the game (multiplayer/singleplayer/etc.). Not every game needs to be 100% seamless all the time / give the player full agency necessarily. The spider man camera thing that they demod on PS5 is just a test case. On ps4 the camera was hardware limited to a certain degree to a certain speed, faster than that speed, the game would probably stutter as it loaded in objects too slowly from disk. But how necessary is it for most games out there, honestly, that the camera move really rapidly? Spiderman/the player won't need to move that quickly!
Only later on, and then, only for games that need it (for which many have no need for it), will some developers leverage the different way SSDs can do loading vs. before.