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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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So the last time you've got excited about how fresh a game feels was during a generation where we actually got a big storage and CPU leap? Interesting :)
They should definitely do a meeting IMO. Not only would it give the PS5 more exposure, generating more buzz and reaching a wider audience, but it would also help with mindshare as we wait for E3. MS will be having a meeting before E3 and they don't want MS to have all the attention or control the message during this lull before the big show.
They can also take this opportunity to talk about their hardware, services, and features while also showing off some demos or games to show off the system. It's one thing to read about the hardware in a Wired article but it's an entirely different thing to see what the hardware can do in a demo.
Getting the hardware and features out of the way will allow them to focus on games at E3. This is the strategy both companies should and probably will take.
I wonder with the use of a new CPU bump as well as SSD that someone out there could think of a new game mechanic/idea or innovation they couldn't really do before
it doesn't need to be some graphical crazy game but some new trick or use of those two things above to do a new game mechanic like maybe swapping worlds during real time gameplay or something in a platformer or whatever
Perhaps this is why the high speed SSD is critical. Game design can fundamentally change with data streaming limitations becoming less of a burden.
Other than Spider-Man swinging through a city, can I get some examples of this fundamental design change?
I think once we see the games you'll change your opinion. It was the same with this gen, going in it seemed more of the same but the leap in fidelity was quite stunning. Now far higher graphical fidelity combined with the CPU and SSD means some quite huge potential for game design taking quite a leap ahead.
Dark1x Come on my man. Every dream has come true. We are getting 8 core 16 thread CPUs. We are getting ray tracing in a console. We are getting SSDs in a console. We are getting 12 RDNA tflops. Or 18 Tahiti tflops, 15 polaris tflops. And thats just the Xbox. PS5 might even be stronger with SSD speeds up to 5GBps if Cerny is to be believed.
Dont let twitter and other pessimistic and realistic users bring you down. We are extremely excited over here and have not let the downers bring us down. Just wait for Sony first party studios, talented Capcom studios, rockstar, rocksteady, respawn and KojiPro to blow you away. These devs WILL take advantage of all that tech in ways we havent seen before.
You talked to the Horizon devs, you saw how much they had to compromise. Time for compromises is over. It will be the most significant tech leap since the PS1 to PS2. Forget ray tracing, thats just shiny graphics. CPU and SSD upgrade will let devs push the boundries in ways we havent seen before.
Just hang out in this thread, and quit twitter. We have our cross gen apologists but we dont let them bring us down. Sky is the limit man.
Dont let twitter and other pessimistic and realistic users bring you down. We are extremely excited over here and have not let the downers bring us down. Just wait for Sony first party studios, talented Capcom studios, rockstar, rocksteady, respawn and KojiPro to blow you away. These devs WILL take advantage of all that tech in ways we havent seen before.
You talked to the Horizon devs, you saw how much they had to compromise. Time for compromises is over. It will be the most significant tech leap since the PS1 to PS2. Forget ray tracing, thats just shiny graphics. CPU and SSD upgrade will let devs push the boundries in ways we havent seen before.
Just hang out in this thread, and quit twitter. We have our cross gen apologists but we dont let them bring us down. Sky is the limit man.
I always maintain if we get a significant tech leap it'll have to be in AI or animations which are extremely expensive.
I'm puzzled why MS not developing 1st-party exclusives for Scarlet in the launch period is leading people to believe that the cross-gen titles will be on the same disc. I fully expect every Scarlet physical release to be on a 100GB(+) BDXL disc with new branding.
Well, when one company is openly admitting to treating it exactly like it, I get where that pessimism comes from. MS doesn't own in the industry, though.
Horizon Zero Dawn was given as a example. The developers wanted to implement flight but the data speeds were so slow it became a worthless pursuit.
God of War, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne all have artificially padded corridors to hide load times. Uncharted 4 intelligently makes characters get into cover or blow something up in a set piece before loading something else in.
It's not just about speed either. The richness of assets being streamed in and out can be very important. Imagine standing at an stoplight in Times Square of GTA.
As pedestrians cross - each and every NPC now has a much larger diversity of assets, animations, physics etc. Because the data being streamed in is no longer limited to 30 mb /s.
Imagine an insanely detailed interior section of Red Dead 2 scaled all the way up to NPCs in an open area. SSD speed is as critical to this generation as RAM was to last gen.
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If 321 pages of posts of searching for the smallest bit of information about next-gen consoles is not excitement then I don't know what to say.
Perfect, thanks! Those are some great example. The GTA one really hits home.
Games designed around Zen, Navi, and the speed of SSD will give you far more richness to fidelity than any thing this generation. Star Citizen quality will be a mainstream thing 🌟
It's two blade sword - if in the end ps5 is "only" 9.2tf even I would be dissapointed lol
Okay sure but I don't expect that day one and I don't think it's fair to devs to expect massive improvements within the first couple of years.
Not just Sony. We are already hearing rumors that many devs might be moving on to next gen faster than before.
- EA has already announced that DICE's next game will be next gen only. Last gen they had a cross gen title at launch, this time they are taking that year off to make a next gen only game for 2021.
- Klee's friend's studio is making a next gen only game. Thats a third party studio working on a next gen only game in 2019.
- Rocksteady likely hasnt announced their game because they are a next gen game and one of the platform holders has made them hold back the announcement until the main reveal.
- Harry Potter's destruction makes the game looks next gen. I wouldnt be surprised if the graphics also get a boost come launch.
The reason EA gave for pushing BF to next gen only is a big giveaway. They said DICE believes that they simply wont be able to compete if they stuck to cross gen. They must know that other devs especially their competition which is cod is planning next gen only versions in holiday 2021. They cannot wait until year 4 to get their first next gen game out like they did with BF1.
Probably just me reading it wrong but he seems to be lamenting peoples boring expectations in the first line? The rest covers both bases, suggest the expectations are exciting but not likely, he misses them and ends up not really saying anything.
Some of these things you guys listing are extremely expensive and will make game development even longer. Going to be extremely dissapointed if you expect vast leaps in A.I within the first shit 2-3 years
I imagine it to be Dr. Strange style, some portal like animation and 3 seconds later you are in a different area of the map.
I would argue that th PS4 generation was the only one that didn't have a big I/O and CPU leap. If we look at Playstation, because they have been pretty consistant since their genesis, we've had:
PS1 - CD-ROM @0.3MB/s
PS2 - DVD @5.28MB/s
PS3 - BR @7.2MB/s + HDD up to @100MB/s
PS4 - BR @27MB/s + HDD up to @100MB/s
So I would argue, because developers could have mandatory HDD install on the PS3, that we've had ~10X improvment in storage speed each generation and a big leap in CPU power until we've arrived at the PS4 which had both almost the same CPU and almost the same storage speed as the PS3.
IMO the only improvement to the actual games themselves,not their graphics, has been the RAM. That's why I see this past generation as a big disappointment, it felt like the PS3 and 360 all over again but with better polish, graphics and bigger worlds.
PS5 and XSX are really exciting IMO, it feels to me like the first generational shift since 2005.
Agreed overall, although I wasn't really disappointed with this gen even though I agree it felt more like a continuation of the last gen in terms of game design paradigms.
But that's more to do with the renaissance of Japanese games this gen compared to last. Last gen truly lacked the creativity that Japanese games far too often bring to the table. So they were certainly the breath of life to keep things fresh this gen for me.
Liabe Brave is one of a handful of posters on this forum whose posts I always appreciate reading. Their insight is only matched by their eloquence, IMHO.
Welcome, John.
I really wanna say, ye of little faith. I trust devs and I think we have real reasons to be excited for what will come this next-gen.
Sure the truly revolutionary gameplay experiences may be few and far between, however, there will still be radical evolutions of existing and familiar concepts that will blow minds and melt faces 😉
Thanks for the answer
I'm really interested to know what kind of stuff you think can make next gen much more exciting?
No we probably won't get games with the largest budget ever that is a fair guess. However you don't need even a tenth of the budget of SC to build your games around an SSD and a proper CPU and using that games budget as an argument is nothing but absurd.
It does not cost more to have a developer working with the limitations of a SSD and a basically off the shelf PC CPU in mind then a HDD and a Jaguar CPU which even DF said is unusable in a modern PC and in reality probably its significantly more costly to keep trying to push a game with new hardware as well as hardware that was outdated since forever and make both work and make it both look next gen and still playabl
I was talking about launch. There are off course third party games also pushing what is possible on the consoles and they of course wants to look as pretty and interesting as possible so people picking up a new console will choose their game to take home with it. Their goal however is not to sell consoles that is the goal of launch first party games and make the new console look as attractive as possible showing off as much of the capabilities of the new system wether people pick that up at launch or later or never is not the primary goal.
Yes and the same thing will be done on PS5 for the games that are crossgen? It's not exclusive to Xbox.
Sony however and it's first party games can also show of those and the new gameplay mechanics and systems that literally is impossible to run on the old hardware and not just current gen games with next gen makeup.
And I was talking about Microsoft CEO and his letter to shareholders and not Booty so I don't even know how to answer that.
They off course wants people to buy Xbox but the investment in new studios and heavy subsidizing of Gamepass and Xcloud is to become the Netflix of gaming (once again like Nadella have claimed is their goal) and available on as many devices as possible and not to make people buy a XsX. The same reasoning is behind the no launch next gen only games they want content on many devices instead of using it to sell one. If that is an XsX they will of course happy since they will probably not sell the hardware at a loss or if they do probably make it profitable after a game purchase or two but it's their main goal and Nadella would probably put Gamepass on PS5 in a heartbeat if Sony allowed it.
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its relative. 9 tflops will be disappointing as a tech enthusiast, but the ssd and cpu jump will still allow for some truly transformative gameplay experiences. besides, with ms launching with 12 tflops, it means most devs will use it as the base platform and downport to the ps5 like they did with the x1 this gen. 12 tflops should be the base with whatever resolution they choose.
seen a few people suggest OT titles already so I'm gonna quote B&B again because I think it should be the next one.
| OT10 | We aim to transition those from OT9 at a pace never seen before.
or my own suggestion:
| OT10 | You're gonna need a read speed faster than an SSD to keep up
Editted out into its own post
With the speed we go through these things at I think it's definitely apt
| OT10 | We aim to transition those from OT9 at a pace never seen before.
or my own suggestion:
| OT10 | You're gonna need a read speed faster than an SSD to keep up
We talked about it more in previous threads but here is a summary, but tbh it's just scratching the surface of what is possible. Next gen will offer huge opportunities creatively.
Editted out into its own post
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I think games that will truly take advantage of next gen stuff are starting development right now or have started within the past year. I don't expect games that launch within the first year or two to truly take advantage of everything the supposed next gen stuff will take advantage of, which is one reason I don't really care if last gen consoles are supported for the first year.
You could come to such a conclusion but in this case it isn't accurate or fitting!
The 360 was actually the very first console (including handheld) I ever owned myself. And it would have been a PS3 (hey hey) but Sony postponed the launch in Europe. At the time I needed to make a quick purchase because I was in a longer
convalescence and rehabilitation and needed something to do besides reading books.
If a developer has been targeting next generation hardware from the jump- I don't see why not? 🤔
Games look better as the gen moves forward but during this generation we had games like InFamous Second Son and the Order 1886 that launched within the first two years and looked absolutely stunning.
All of this is contingent on if a developer is actually designing around a baseline of a high speed SSD and Zen.
At the very least in the case of Playstation, they have a ton of potential games like Ratchet and Clank 2, Horizon 2, Japan Studios New Toyama IP, the new Northern California studio, and the Bluepoint remake - that could all be targeting launch year and a half.
Star Citizen heavily leverages this portion of an SSD's speed. Not its bandwidth for large files over time (which it also uses of course), but its immediate seek speed for small files. Grabbing tons of tiny files off the disk and bringing them into RAM constantly. A Sata 3.0 SSD and higher end NVME SSD here actually have pretty similar performance even though the NVME is much faster at larger read writes. And HDD is impossibly slow at those tasks in comparison if you look at the numbers there for two 7200 RPMs in Raid 0.
And Optane absolutely blows an NVME or normal SSD out of the water in those smaller tasks. Order of magnitude.
Notice how optane destroys even an Nvme SSD in 4K reads.
They have a number of posts and interviews about it scattered out over the years of behind the scenes coverage of the game, but I am also (writing it here on ResetERA first) going to be some dedicated Star Citizen coverage soon where I will have interviews regarding this stuf. I hope you guys like it.
The reason why the game focuses on that burst / parallel data grabbing from the SSD is due to its world and asset design, and not because of the physics so much so. The game's asset size in the sizte of its world is the thing that motivated them to focus on this type of game loading. How do we stop the game from stuttering with multiple ship models and worlds where each one is multiple hundreds of megabytes in memory?
How do you think console SSDs will stack up assuming there will be some custom IO work as I doubt they just stick an NVME SSD on there? Think we'll get results between top end NVME and Optane?
Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation
Don't expect it anytime in 2019, but the next PlayStation console is well on its way—and it's packing ray-tracing support and a loadtime-killing solid-state hard drive.
Guerrilla Games works since 2017 on HZD 2. I think the game will release in 2021. They were probably knowing the PS5 will have a SSD. All the SIE patent of the SSD were filed in 2015 or 2016. I think from the get go he game was design around the SSD in preproduction and in production.
Okay but that's just good looking games. I don't think there will be any fundamental design changes that couldn't take place on a PS4 so soon
strange , should we not expect major changes in gamedesign given that we will have for the first time SSDs in Consoles?
There are going to be more details in the open world games. Basically we could have the same world density of linear games in an open world game.
And it should also make next dev easier (based on that interview about the streaming that was taken care by the system and didn't take ressources from CPU) so more polished games overall, more stable framerates, and finally, maybe, 60fps in open world AAA games. Hey I can dream :P
I think the leap from previous-gen to current-gen was smaller than what will be possible with the leap from current-gen to next-gen. This generation didn't really suprise us with any new gameplay features or really novel graphical innovations; for all intends and purposes, it has been "more of the same" really.
I don't know and that's often where the best stuff comes from! Maybe it will happen!
I did just feel that excitement playing through Boneworks, though, so it's still possible.
I'm not sure I understand what your saying. Are you suggesting exclusive software designed around the SSD and Zen processor can be backported to PS4?
Guerilla themselves mentioned not having the raw mb/s to implement flying in Horizon and Spidermans speed was gimped because of HDD.
A late merry Christmas and happy new year to everyone.
Final predictions
Ps5
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.2ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1870mhz =13.4tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
XsX
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.4ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1700mhz =12.18tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
Final predictions
Ps5
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.2ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1870mhz =13.4tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
XsX
CPU: 8core Zen2 16threads 3.4ghz
GPU: 56 rdna cu's @1700mhz =12.18tf
RAm: 16gddr6 (3gb for os)
SSD nvme 1tb
$499
SSDs: What type of games will benefit the most from it? IMO:
- Games with fast paced change of scenery
- Games with lots of objects in a scene and major changes in movement
- Games with Ad Hoc fights in an arena (common in JRPGs)
- Grand Theft Auto, Watch Dogs -> especially when driving
- Racing games -> better environments and no more tricks with 2D models
- RPGs with bigger towns -> The Witcher 3 and lots going on there, The Division
- Open World games in general like AC
- Status