Sony is expected to do Taipei Game Show -and- the PlayStation 5 reveal in February? Sounds like a tall order.
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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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it stutters constantly when using HDD on a high end GPU using lowest on all settings while walking on the most unpopulated area.There is literally no workaround unless the devs change the game itself. You can't add loading every 2 seconds just to use HDD.
For sure !
We don't know what games are coming exactly during that timeframe Microsoft is talking about when they mentioned that for the first two years all those games work across the entire family. Maybe they are very light on big games and as soon as they are ready for the big ones then those will. Same could happen to Sony, that we don't get to see the real day until way later into the lifecycle.
It still does leave a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, because it also kind of "delays" TRUE next generation for the entire Xbox-only Playerbase and also partly the PC games being affected by it until 2022 or so.
A good example would also be looking at maxxed out PC games. If we look at great looking recent games like Resident Evil 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Gears 5 and many more and we compare low/med/PS/XBOX versions settings to completely maxxed out on PC then the difference is not a generational leap even though for some games to truly max out you need a truly beastly PC that is about 10x as good as an Xbox One. Of course they look a lot better, have way better render distance and shadows, but in essence they are always the same game no matter how high you turn the settings.
That is also a sign of something being hold back. Those games run on an Xbox One 1.3TF but also a PC with 9900K/2080Ti.
That is kind of how I think things will unfold for the Xbox brand during 2020-2022. It also must be kind of weird to buy an Xbox Series X on launch then. The console is not going to be cheap and having new technology, but it won't be fully used. Though I bet Microsoft will have a RayTracing showcasing game for the Series X launch!
No, it can't. Two 7200rpm hard drives in RAID-0 can't run it. Look up the DF video on Star Citizen for video evidence.
edit: ^ Right up there.
To be fair the game isn't done and likely won't be for years to come despite what CIG tries to tell people. Source am backer since 2013/14. The game ran like shit but well enough on my 7 series laptop back then with a HDD. I'll have to see if it will even boot on that thing now. Note runs like shit on my Surface book 2 as well.
I don't need to watch the video I have the game I'm saying it's still a glorified tech demo for now and runs like shit on my Surface book 2 which has a SSD. basically if you aren't running the best stuff in your computer you aren't going to enjoy SC. I said I could dig out my laptop which has a 745 and I7 with a HDD to see if it would even boot where as it used to play it but at a really unstable FPS.
That's a good question I'm not sure pretty sure the Surface book 2 uses a separate discreet GPU specifically GTX 1060
Nothing great but it's the best I could get which was the 1060 I was hoping MS would have used a better GPU when I bought it in 18 but I had an excuse to buy it for school so why not lol.
I guess Star Citizen is just poorly optimized at the moment since that's the last thing games tend to before going gold or when it's gold.
Saying the game runs like shit because it doesn't do well on your card, which was a low-mid level card at release *in 2016* is hilarious.
Of course, the whole point of the post was to show that there is a big difference between HDDs and SSDs when the latter is properly leveraged. The video does a great job of that, regardless of what you think of SC's performance.
That's my thought as well. The game is super ambitious and I love the space sim genre so I hope it's successful but I have some issues with their feature creep and business practices personally.
Eh my 745 was trash tier too yet it played it at an unstable frame rate. My 1060 also plays it just fine at a unstable frame rate this was in 2018 when I got the computer. I do think once it's optimized better they'll sort out mid spec GPUs
The game is heavy, but saying that it's poorly optimized because it doesn't run well on a card that was never that good is a bit much.
Do you guys think next gen will be able to reach the graphical fidelity of the first minute of the 2011 FF Versus XIII trailer in real time:
I have a feeling that it'll barely be a year in before we see MS committing to next gen to some capacity.
I also don't think it'll impact next gen adoption much at all. I'd bet after E3 MS will have a pretty strong case for upgrading, same for Sony. Plenty of people upgraded to the Pro and 1X and that was mostly a resolution bump. I'm expecting to see a lot more from these SX titles. This isn't counting any next gen exclusives provided by 3rd party publishers.
I'm honestly not worried at all about feeling cheated by either console at launch. I'm more worried about how much my wallet is going to be hurting. =p
Yes, let's develop a game specifically for SSD's more than 40X faster than the HDD's in current gen consoles then downport it. When the game stutters on current gen consoles every 5 seconds as it loads in huge chunks of data, blame the developers for being lazy. A foolproof method for anyone who doesn't understand game development, genius!
It absolutely does. To refresh your memory, your argument was that "there's literally nothing preventing a crossgen developer from using the remaining computational power to ADD things that were impossible in the previous gen version." And your example of this being done was Forza Horizon 2.
But FH2 didn't have things added by a crossgen developer. The developer made a nextgen-only version, precisely so they could add things that were otherwise impossible. Then an entire other studio had to be paid to make a different game, under the same title, focusing solely on the existing gen. That's a clear and definitive counterexample to your claim that the result could be obtained by "a crossgen developer".
But we don't need evidence of any kind to say that the money COULD have gone to another nextgen project. The publisher's marketing plan, managerial whim, etc. are orthogonal factors.
Incorrect. An array of agents that take distribution of resources from a limited pool is the definition of zero sum. Or are you suggesting that Xbox has a literally infinite amount of money to spend?
I do take your point that endusers aren't really privy to these sorts of decisions, so you'll never hear such reapportioning given as reasoning behind customer purchase decisions. Nevertheless, whether we know about a platform's spending choices or not, they do exist, and they directly affect the audience's experience for good or ill.
What I would love to see is for them to keep the game and gameplay the same, but go for a locked 60fps and actually make the game tougher by building around that framerate and forcing players to really use the extra responsiveness.
Also, allow us to repair the 6th archstone, but make it an optional secret you have to figure out, and make the place it leads to something truly insane that uses the PS5 hardware to its fullest.
Seriously, what a stupid claim. I mean, it's literally not even a hard drive, and it's not even just many many many times (at least 40x) faster, it removes seek times as well.
Not to mention, isn't Star Citizen built around the baseline of a SATA SSD, not an NVMe?
It is built around the 4k burst data capabilizies of storage, not raw bandwidth. Moving many tiny files very rapidly in parallel - something ssds can do and hdds cannot (look at the 4k result in crystal Mark benches)
This thread is way too focused on raw bandwidth and is not thinking at all about multithreaded i/o capabilizies of ssds.
SC runs best on Optane, something better than nvme
Do you have any guess (or knowledge) about whether this is just how they happened to build their tech, or is it something inherent in the processing they're doing? How likely is it that different games--which don't have the same requirements for physics, persistence, etc.--would require the same sort of burst access, to do other technical tasks?
I think you underestimating how game design is tied to HD speed
I'm pretty sure that discussion has come to a halt because there is really no longer a discussion to be had when one side is saying stuff like 'SSD's are just faster HDD's' and 'Jaguar Cpu's wont hold back next gen games' and 'but scaling though'.
Even those that have somewhat conceded on this point, and acknowledge that the current gen hardware 'might' hold back crossgen games, are constantly moving goal posts.
Edit: We really need new information from Sony and Microsoft about specs so we can go back to discussing which has the biggest Teraflop in it's pants.
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agree.Combined with the usual post launch window drought in the first year, we'll have some 'pretty but you can imagine them on old consoles but nicer paint' games designed to wow you.
Im not a fan of extended cross gen support, but I don't think that will be for long - or games will be ported down rather than being the same actual game running on old consoles - like titanfall was for example.
so this latest fuss about whether cross gen is good or bad or anti/pro consumer will probably be moot by Christmas 2021
I have a feeling we're not getting a PS meeting. This is not fun.
We might get another misquote though which will add another 30+ pages of arguments over something that wasn't even really said. It's fun times when there isn't anything or substance to talk about.
Obviously not when it comes to sheer geometry, lighting and textures, but overall COULD look very similar.
The ending cutscene of FFXV still blows my mind to this day on how good it looks, almost CGI quality. And the FFVII Remake shows how good the character models can look under heavily controlled lighting.
They pulled this off on consoles with less than 2TFs of power and ancient processors. Now imagine what they will do with 9+TFs monsters. It will be insane.
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If we don't get anything in February then i don't think this place is going to last lol.
If he entire quote from Matt Booty might simply be a "I know we showed the xsx box but please still buy the current gen in 2020" PR
MS hardware is down more than PS but they still will want to sell some. Although they must assume X1X sales will fall off a cliff as those looking for power will hold off. Xb1S/SAD potential customers aren't xsx target anyway so maybe they just want to reassure them it's safe to buy (although buying in this late you should be buying for existing catalog not the hope you'll get 3 more years of brand new release)
MS hardware is down more than PS but they still will want to sell some. Although they must assume X1X sales will fall off a cliff as those looking for power will hold off. Xb1S/SAD potential customers aren't xsx target anyway so maybe they just want to reassure them it's safe to buy (although buying in this late you should be buying for existing catalog not the hope you'll get 3 more years of brand new release)
The argument is less about it making a difference to the way the game is developed, and more about whether that actually matters for the games we get at the very start of the gen.
What makes you think that? The PS5 is launching in November, so it would make sense to start drumming up serious hype around Q1. We had a PS meeting for the PS4, so I'm sure we'll get one for PS5 this February.
Last time did the PlayStation meeting invites fo out after the Sony financial report or before? I can understand the meeting being after financials but potentially even the invite might be considered something financially sensitive. If they wait until after 4th feb to send out invites then I can't imagine it could be 5th *or* 12th?
I covered this in the bottom part of the post you quoted. (not the Edit)
Let's say it's early/mid February. If that's the case then I wouldn't expect Sony to officially announce the date and send invites until the end of the month.
#Believe
ok so let's consider the invitation would be before Sony financials so they can include it as a line item if required.
allowing 2 weeks notice, the invite would be next week for an event on the 5th, or in 2 weeks for an event on the 12th
5th clashes with Taipei game show so maybe 12th is a likely option? Although if the game show is mostly a local sales thing they may be able to do both with the meeting leading straight into TGS
I imagine it to be Dr. Strange style, some portal like animation and 3 seconds later you are in a different area of the map.
I would argue that th PS4 generation was the only one that didn't have a big I/O and CPU leap. If we look at Playstation, because they have been pretty consistant since their genesis, we've had:
PS1 - CD-ROM @0.3MB/s
PS2 - DVD @5.28MB/s
PS3 - BR @7.2MB/s + HDD up to @100MB/s
PS4 - BR @27MB/s + HDD up to @100MB/s
So I would argue, because developers could have mandatory HDD install on the PS3, that we've had ~10X improvment in storage speed each generation and a big leap in CPU power until we've arrived at the PS4 which had both almost the same CPU and almost the same storage speed as the PS3.
IMO the only improvement to the actual games themselves,not their graphics, has been the RAM. That's why I see this past generation as a big disappointment, it felt like the PS3 and 360 all over again but with better polish, graphics and bigger worlds.
PS5 and XSX are really exciting IMO, it feels to me like the first generational shift since 2005.
FF15 CGI and KINGSGLAIVE quality is easily reachable for next-gen. "Easily" is a relative word since the hardware allows it but I don't know about the will of devs. I hope Square will try to push the graphics as much as possible, if not other passionate devs will do it.
Obviously not when it comes to sheer geometry, lighting and textures, but overall COULD look very similar.
The ending cutscene of FFXV still blows my mind to this day on how good it looks, almost CGI quality. And the FFVII Remake shows how good the character models can look under heavily controlled lighting.
They pulled this off on consoles with less than 2TFs of power and ancient processors. Now imagine what they will do with 9+TFs monsters. It will be insane.
Funny thing is that nothing from thise features you mentioned aren't achievable or are a limiting factor for next-gen. The only possible thing going to look a little worse is just the lighting because they need to reduce the number of light bounces and that is all. All of you need to stop judging next-gen by extrapolating or projecting the limits of current-gen.
Next-gen is not only capable of reaching CGI quality but sometimes some high quality CGIs too. The only limit is the intention, or will or skills of the devs.
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This place endures for 2 years now, it will survive February as well :)
Maybe they are talking about the thread and the users in it? Some people will probably go crazy.
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