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beta

Member
Dec 31, 2019
176
imo, it makes sense more sense for Sony to be modifying the AMD solution to be more performant than it does for them to integrate a solution from a different vendor that likely doesn't exist on the same process node, and would take significant effort to integrate well.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?

My theory since last CES has been that they are planning a gaming variant format of their 360 Reality Audio tech they currently use for music and their purchase of Audiokinetic was to ensure that new format was built into Wwise so that the hundreds of games released each year would have instant support for it. 360 Reality Audio is apparently all software based, but maybe the hardware on the PS5 could take better advantage of it? So when a gamer sets up their PS5 they can use their smartphone to snap a picture of their ears to build their own acoustic profile for the software and you're all set to go :)
 

Dalto11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
139
I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?


I'm fairly certain this an evolution of what they built with the VR breakout-box. A lot of the breakout-box's purpose was the processing of object based 3D audio. It sounds like it's integrated into the PS5 now. Which lends me hope that the headset ports will be as well given that they've stated current VR headsets will work with PS5.
 

xtib81

Member
Mar 10, 2019
1,890
So what the hell were people implying yesterday when they said on twitter :"you won't want to miss it" or some bullshit like that? Glad I didn't stay up for that.
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,745
Think of it this way, you missed nothing and got some sleep!

0e3.png
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,275
Ok, so where are we with the specs speculation now?
AMD says 5600 is a budget 1080P card, how many think we are getting a 5700 in the PS5 now?
I HIGHLY doubt we will get 36CU, considering their "budget" card is 36CU at 1.5GHz.
No chance Sony would go with this, no chance Oberon is final SoC.
Previous consoles used budget cards though. Even the X1X used a card around the current price of the 5600. If 12TF wasn't pretty much confirmed for XSX then my expectation for next gen consoles would be 36-40 CUs, because that's comparable to what we got last gen.

I'm really curious how MS is going to pull this off and at what price.
 

Sems4arsenal

Member
Apr 7, 2019
3,627
So we've seen Godfall with Ray tracing, and Polyphony showed a demo running GTSport with RT, but it's Sony that won't have it?
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,288
Glorious sleep won again, god damn logo only. I wonder if the full unveil will be at E3.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
And Matt confirmed it before that.
im not sure what it's going to take to convince some... and frankly, Im not sure why this is even being argued. It is a fact, because officially, it's what Sony has said. If someone has insider information that says otherwise,they should verify with a mod. And if found to be lying so fervently, they should be banned.
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,866
People here geniuenly believe that though.

Who are the other people? I often see people trying to figure out why the leaks didn't show RT (it was only benching BC modes, Sony going with a different provider for RT, etc) but 99 percent of the thread agreed long ago that both consoles would have some form of hardware based RT.
 

Broken Hope

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,316
What do people or fan boys actually gain from Sony being much weaker anyway? It's like the PS5 has to be weaker for them to be satisfied?

I'm a PS4 and Switch gamer, I don't enjoy the Microsoft exclusive games, but I don't gain or lose anything if the XBox ends up being the stronger console.

Are they upset the PS4 outsold the Xbox so badly? Or that the original XBox One was weaker?

I honestly don't understand why they have to be so adamant that the PS5 is weaker or missing features.
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
What do people or fan boys actually gain from Sony being much weaker anyway? It's like the PS5 has to be weaker for them to be satisfied?

I'm a PS4 and Switch gamer, I don't enjoy the Microsoft exclusive games, but I don't gain or lose anything if the XBox ends up being the stronger console.

Are they upset the PS4 outsold the Xbox so badly? Or that the original XBox One was weaker?

I honestly don't understand why they have to be so adamant that the PS5 is weaker or missing features.
You can say the same thing about both sides. So many people hoping the XSX is 9TF or something like that when many insiders have said it's 12TF :P
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,835
My theory since last CES has been that they are planning a gaming variant format of their 360 Reality Audio tech they currently use for music and their purchase of Audiokinetic was to ensure that new format was built into Wwise so that the hundreds of games released each year would have instant support for it. 360 Reality Audio is apparently all software based, but maybe the hardware on the PS5 could take better advantage of it? So when a gamer sets up their PS5 they can use their smartphone to snap a picture of their ears to build their own acoustic profile for the software and you're all set to go :)

I've tried the 360 audio as I own headphones that support it. It's mightily impressive but there is no content. Maybe 20 albums. Having it on PS5 would be great assuming I could connect to console using same headphones and that is.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
Would type of read/write speeds will these consoles have, and will it be more than the typical 500MB/s?

From everything discussed in this thread so far the speeds should be much faster than that. The speculation is that Sony might have the faster solution and there's a patent they've got with some pretty ludicrous speeds in it (IIRC 10 GB/s). There's also the small chance Sony could slap some ReRAM as a cache into the PS5 which would be even faster (25.6 GB/s reads for 128 GB ReRAM).

But conservatively most people seem to think a couple to a few GB/s is what's to be expected.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Interesting. Thought that was confirmed. The Polyphony demo is another indication anyway.
Looking at the PlayStation Experience 2013 video, I think they will showcase lots and lots of RT'ing when it announced. We already knew every game that would launch with PS4 and of games releasing in 2014, quite frankly this fake ambiguity around RT will end when they do show it.
But.. Im pretty sure GT Sport will have alot of the updates (haptic feedback and RT) as a patch next gen. Mark Cerny has a patent to his name allowing such.
 

pure

Member
Jun 18, 2019
236
Germany
I haven't read everything but still i'd like to address a few points:
1. Copper IHS:
This doesn't mean anything for the retail product as these are most likely engineering samples. Could the final chip have a copper IHS ? Yes. Could it also have an aluminium IHS ? Yes.
2. Hardware/Software RT
The argument that settings aside GPU compute for RT would somehow make it "Hardware based" is ridiculous. If you follow that logic everything you ever do in software is "Hardware based" because its either running on the CPU or GPU. It's obvious that both consoles have hardware RT.
3. Hardware RT from PowerVR
You cant just bolt on a different RT solution from another vendor. These are not standalone products. It will be AMD RT, cant be anything else.
 

Sems4arsenal

Member
Apr 7, 2019
3,627
Looking at the PlayStation Experience 2013 video, I think they will showcase lots and lots of RT'ing when it announced. We already knew every game that would launch with PS5 and of games releasing in 2014, quite frankly this fake ambiguity around RT will end when they do show it.
But.. Im pretty sure GT Sport will have alot of the updates (haptic feedback and RT) as a patch next gen. Mark Cerny has a patent to his name allowing such.

Nah, think they'll just release GT7 and leave GTSport as it is.

I bet we see GT7 this year.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,288
The logo itself has 3 milion likes on IG, people are hungry for more. 2013 PS meeting was 31st January but does anyone remember when it was announced?
 

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
The SSD is extremely exciting, but I have a feeling that it might go underused outside of Sony first-party games. Third-party games will probably be built around PC storage speeds - so, either slow HDDs or at best 300-400MB/s SATA SSDs - and so, even if the XSX really does have a slower SSD of 2GB/s or so, it will likely still be enough to handle such games with no pop-in or load times. Thus, a faster custom PS5 SSD may not add anything and it would be out of Sony's hands. A raw GPU advantage, on the other hand, would be far more likely to be used to its fullest extent in every game.

I would think the design parameters would switch though by year 2/3, right? At that point, SSD will overtake HDD as the primary purchased method for storage on PC and it'll be the primary method of storage on console.

Am I off to think the developers and the games would follow towards that trend line?

What we do know now is, the tweets and wired articles from this past year generated a similar amount of buzz that would have been more or less the same that E3 would have given off. The difference between these is the magic of a live presentation in front of an audience, revealing the hardware and price. That makes the difference and may be necessary for them to reappear at E3 this year. That's all on my opinion anyway.

Yes. I agree they will need a live showcase for presenting the specs and pricing. I don't agree that it will have to mean a reappearance at E3, but I suspect it will since PlayStation did zilch to create a precedent of their own event to showcase such things the last two years.

Well, Control doesn't run like shit on 1X, which makes it far better than any other console version, and RDR2 on 1X is a big leap over the Pro. Resolution differences are also consistently present, nearly always in favor of 1X.

Just finished Control. Loved it and it looked gorgeous and ran smooth for the most part, but boy when it hit a rough patch, it was rough.

Excuse me? I was just asking a question, your response came across as needlessly aggressive lol.

I didn't know the history of the said leaker, hence asked, if the size in question was of GPU or an APU.

Might have been a translation thing, mate. He was merely saying if you looked at the information the poster had collected, he had appeared without verification, made claims with factory knowledge, and those claims have come up false.

I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?

I think the point of it is to provide it to anyone with headphones or the appropriate sound setup. They have 3D Audio today in their Platinum headsets, but only a few games take advantage.

The promise is with Ray Tracing and 3D Audio chip will allow for easier implementation across more games so your sound system of choice can utilize it. We'll see how it goes!
 

Sheng Long

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,590
Earth
I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?

They have been pushing 3D audio with several games and PSVR already. Having audio below and above you etc.
 

Wandu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,163
I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?

Also, it is a built-in audio chip, so that you can experience the output through regular TV speakers. Doesn't sound like you would need special equipment as the PS5 will be all you need. I believe this was stated in the 1st Wired article.
 

pure

Member
Jun 18, 2019
236
Germany
I'm dumb to this. Why can you not use alternatives? (Think more for curiosity than for console wars lol)
So maybe my explanation wasn't that good:
If you wanted to use the PowerVR solution in your chip you would have to design around it. It's not a "plug and play solution".
Since the SoC is designed by AMD, using a different RT solution would be insane.
It's not impossible, but improbable.
 

beta

Member
Dec 31, 2019
176
I'm dumb to this. Why can you not use alternatives? (Think more for curiosity than for console wars lol)

Because it is likely still tightly coupled to the GPU even if it is not integrated into the shader cores themselves, it would require significant effort to port the design to even work with AMD GPUs let alone be efficient from a size, heat and performance perspective. It would be easier to just make AMDs solution have better performance by modifying it.
 
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Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
Because it is likely still tightly coupled to the GPU even if it is not integrated into the shader cores themselves, it would require significant effort to port the design to even work with AMD GPUs let alone be efficient front a size, heat and performance perspective.
So maybe my explanation wasn't that good:
If you wanted to use the PowerVR solution in your chip you would have to design around it. It's not a "plug and play solution".
Since the SoC is designed by AMD, using a different RT solution would be insane.
It's not impossible, but improbable.

Just what I love to hear. I understand the idea of some exotic aspects of hardware, but I get the feeling PlayStation (likely Xbox as well) is saving all their custom budget for SSD and other additions like 3D Audio.

I know hes banned but hes spreading this bollocks on twitter too.

it's not in here. So just let it be, mate!
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,341
I see we didn't get anything, as expected.

February reveal it is then.

Get ready for "3 times the performance of the PS4 Pro", because it's coming :P
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
I find it a bit odd Sony are calling out 3D audio. Unless they also have a Dolby headphone style encoder most people won't have the equipment to take advantage. And Dd5.1 has positional audio without needing super complex object based stuff.

Just feels like a small improvement to have as a main bullet point. I guess it lines up with Daddy Sony's messaging as they're pushing 3D audio too?

Maybe, it might be nothing major. Though there was a comment from some DICE developer talking about the level of horsepower needed to do 'proper' 3D audio, so maybe the chip is intended toward offloading that. And is taking on a lot more of that computational duty than audio hardware on the previous gen could. It will work with standard hardware, TV speakers, though Cerny said you'd get the best experience on headphones.
 
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