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Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I struggle to understand people struggling with the RT stuff on PS5. They've been clear on it, and since the beginning there has been doubt. Unless you think the head of PlayStation and the system architect are lying and you can prove this, I think this thread is better off not constantly circling back to this.

I would rather talk about that then the github leaks though, I will say that xD.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I did a calculation of the Scarlett die vs Scorpio die, it's 10.625% larger. 397mm2.

Surprising enough I got this figure on my first pass at the E3 teaser! I later revised it down to 360-370mm2 using what ever rounding error i can because I refused to believe that the Xsx chip was this much of a monster.

I told you to trust your initial numbers. :p

If its a 400 mm2 monster, we might be looking at a 70 cu 3 shader engine chip. 64 active. Clocked at 1.45 ghz.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
User Banned (Permanent): Conspiratorial Rhetoric, Trolling, and Thread Derailment Over Multiple Posts; Prior Bans for Platform Warring; Account in Junior Phase
No they don't? The idea that them showing the words Hardware-Based Ray Tracing somehow gives you doubt it has Hardware-Based Ray Tracing is pure insanity, and the idea that his first response was weak when it was
"There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware," Cerny told Wired , "which I believe is the statement that people were looking for." also pretty crazy, You think they are advertising something the console doesn't have and doing so repeatedly, Good god man

I actually believe they are and suspect sony knows it. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm going to own a PS5, too, but I don't believe them on hardware ray tracing.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
Ok, so where are we with the specs speculation now?
AMD says 5600 is a budget 1080P card, how many think we are getting a 5700 in the PS5 now?
I HIGHLY doubt we will get 36CU, considering their "budget" card is 36CU at 1.5GHz.
No chance Sony would go with this, no chance Oberon is final SoC.

I would say this is likely the most convincing argument yet, but you are missing a few factors, the difference in memory bandwidth, amount of ram and clock speed. All those factors make 36 CU in PS5 VERY likely.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
I struggle to understand people struggling with the RT stuff on PS5. They've been clear on it, and since the beginning there has been doubt. Unless you think the head of PlayStation and the system architect are lying and you can prove this, I think this thread is better off not constantly circling back to this.

I would rather talk about that then the github leaks though, I will say that xD.
Exactly... people keep twisting their words... but there it is folks, Hardware Based Ray Tracing, listed under Hardware features on PS5.
I think Mark Cerny must be going bald at this point, he specifically told them to write it that way as he pulls his hair out in frustration every time his words are twisted and he's called a liar because of a github leak of an interns notes.
 

Ebtesam

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Apr 1, 2018
4,638

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
I actually believe they are and suspect sony knows it. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm going to own a PS5, too, but I don't believe them on hardware ray tracing.
So you will take Phil spencers vague ish word on 12 tflops but when Mark cerny and the CEO of Sony computer entertainment come out and literally say hardware rt, you wont take their word for it?
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
I would say this is likely the most convincing argument yet, but you are missing a few factors, the difference in memory bandwidth, amount of ram and clock speed. All those factors make 36 CU in PS5 VERY likely.
If thats the case... Sony went from having the most garbage cooling to alien technology cooling, because we would be hearing about Prospero burning hot or being unreliable. No way it stands the vigors of game development at 2.0Ghz in a box. No ways.
Also... their clearly coming in at $499, we wont see that GPU in there. I just don't see it.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
Exactly... people keep twisting their words... but there it is folks, Hardware Based Ray Tracing, listed under Hardware features on PS5.
I think Mark Cerny must be going bald at this point, he specifically told them to write it that way as he pulls his hair out in frustration every time his words are twisted and he's called a liar because of a github leak of an interns notes.

And bizarrely there is a video where the guy on stage presenting it dared not actually say the words. He skipped around and mentioned ALL else on that list of features, except hardware ray tracing. You don't find that just a little bit suspicious? if you're looking to put the issue to rest, wouldn't showing confidence on that particular feature at CES do it?

I mean, look at the video again.




Shows the graphic then proceeds to list them off in order, Ultra High speed ssd, 3d audio, ultra hd blu ray, and brand new controller with haptics and adaptive trigger buttons. He completely ignores hardware ray tracing that is on the graphic...
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
A first fake insider is exposed AquariusZi no 350 mm2 for Xbox Series X, no 300 mm2 for Oberon, no delay for PS5. This is only a random attention seeket on internet, not the first one and not the last one.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
So you will take Phil spencers vague ish word on 12 tflops but when Mark cerny and the CEO of Sony computer entertainment come out and literally say hardware rt, you wont take their word for it?

It's far from vague. We also have confirmation from major publications with sources that have independently confirmed it to be exactly that 12 teraflops. If Xbox Series X turns out to not be at least 12 teraflops, then I will consider that to be a dishonest move and lie by Xbox and Phil. Because they, in no uncertain terms, clearly suggested that's exactly what it is. What don't I doubt on the PS5? That their SSD is an absolute beast because they've been quite clear on this from the start. On a specific feature such as hardware ray tracing, it has seemed to be a more awkward or non committal type of messaging.
 

Bashteee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,193
A first fake insider is exposed AquariusZi no 350 mm2 for Xbox Series X, no 300 mm2 for Oberon, no delay for PS5. This is only a random attention seeket on internet, not the first one and not the last one.

Or the chips that were referenced aren't the final console chips or console chips in general. AMD seems to have a very healthy number of CPUs, APUs and GPUs in the works.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
And bizarrely there is a video where the guy on stage presenting it dared not actually say the words. He skipped around and mentioned ALL else on that list of features, except hardware ray tracing. You don't find that just a little bit suspicious? if you're looking to put the issue to rest, wouldn't showing confidence on that particular feature at CES do it?

I mean, look at the video again.




Shows the graphic then proceeds to list them off in order, Ultra High speed ssd, 3d audio, ultra hd blu ray, and brand new controller with haptics and adaptive trigger buttons. He completely ignores hardware ray tracing that is on the graphic...

No, I don't find it odd at all. But I, just like you, am more excited than ever for the reveal :)
Where all shall be revealed.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
And bizarrely there is a video where the guy on stage presenting it dared not actually say the words. He skipped around and mentioned ALL else on that list of features, except hardware ray tracing. You don't find that just a little bit suspicious? if you're looking to put the issue to rest, wouldn't showing confidence on that particular feature at CES do it?

I mean, look at the video again.




Shows the graphic then proceeds to list them off in order, Ultra High speed ssd, 3d audio, ultra hd blu ray, and brand new controller with haptics and adaptive trigger buttons. He completely ignores hardware ray tracing that is on the graphic...


You're reading too much into this.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
This is dumb.

Cerny said accelerated ray tracing, there's questions if it's truly hardware.

Slide says hardware based ray tracing, and questions if it's.... i have no idea anymore.

The best thing about all of this is, is that Series X will be using the same ray tracing tech for their GPU.

Well, with one particular difference.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
When I say in this thread that some are arguing in bad faith this is a prime example.

Spare me the nonsense, I'm speaking as someone who, unlike some in this thread, will actually own both systems, and who wants to own both systems. I favor Xbox as my primary, but I'm being straight up when I say I do not believe sony on this particular point. I've seen far more bad faith arguments on whether series x is actually 12 tflops than anything i'm saying. Everybody accepted it until it looked like there was a strong possibility that PS5 might not be stronger. All of a sudden people who had accepted 12 immediately began arguing that microsoft clearly means in terms of gcn flops it's twice xbox one x. Those are bad faith arguments.

I even link you to a video of sony's ces presser where the man on stage listed all features on the graphic EXCEPT hardware ray tracing. He literally skipped around hardware ray tracing just to mention all else except it. If he had ignored one other item on that graphic perhaps then I could say, "okay, he didn't mention ultra hd blu ray either, nothing to see here." He failed to mention the ONE feature that has been in doubt for awhile, and where doubt has increased after the AMD github leak, and it's hardware ray tracing. Notice also microsoft keeps pushing VRS, and there was no mention of that today either, but at least in the case of VRS I can give that one a pass because that is a lesser known, more specific feature whose mention might make less sense on a stage like this if they weren't prepared to go further, which they obviously weren't since this wasn't that type of reveal event for the PS5.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
The degree to which some here look so deeply into things that simply aren't there, I really have to wonder how they get on with life
 

Patent

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
1,621
North Carolina
It's far from vague. We also have confirmation from major publications with sources that have independently confirmed it to be exactly that 12 teraflops. If Xbox Series X turns out to not be at least 12 teraflops, then I will consider that to be a dishonest move and lie by Xbox and Phil. Because they, in no uncertain terms, clearly suggested that's exactly what it is. What don't I doubt on the PS5? That their SSD is an absolute beast because they've been quite clear on this from the start. On a specific feature such as hardware ray tracing, it has seemed to be a more awkward or non committal type of messaging.
What major publication has independently verified this? Link please
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
oh i see we are back on the "PS5 has no ray tracing" despite it being right there on the slide, nice.
 

Key222

Member
Dec 11, 2017
148
Now the question is..... will they have dedicated RT cores or are they setting aside GPU compute for RT? Because while wildly different,
they both fit under the "Hardware-based RT" umbrella.

Wouldn't just setting aside GPU compute power for RT basically just be software base RT? Sony has stated at least twice now that the PS5 has hardware based RT, they are not just setting aside GPU power for RT.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
I see the statement "I will own both systems" is becoming a reason for arguing against sensibility, and in bad faith.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,416
Sony: PS5 will utilize some form of HW accelerated ray tracing.
Some people on ERA: Nah, they're lying. The github documents from an intern didn't mention any hw raytracing.

I guess fuck logic then.
 

Bashteee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,193
He said Arden is finalized no more testing. It is just something made up and Oberon is late.
Well, what if those are true and the GitHub one was a fake? If I'm not mistaken, a lot of the rumors seem to be based on the GitHub leak - if it actually is one. That would disconnect everything we know so far. The most legit one was the Gonzalo leak.

Hope they have that event in Feburary. It's crazy how good the leak protection is this time around.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
Spare me the nonsense, I'm speaking as someone who, unlike some in this thread, will actually own both systems, and who wants to own both systems. I favor Xbox as my primary, but I'm being straight up when I say I do not believe sony on this particular point. I've seen far more bad faith arguments on whether series x is actually 12 tflops than anything i'm saying. Everybody accepted it until it looked like there was a strong possibility that PS5 might not be stronger. All of a sudden people who had accepted 12 immediately began arguing that microsoft clearly means in terms of gcn flops it's twice xbox one x. Those are bad faith arguments.

I even link you to a video of sony's ces presser where the man on stage listed all features on the graphic EXCEPT hardware ray tracing. He literally skipped around hardware ray tracing just to mention all else except it. If he had ignored one other item on that graphic perhaps then I could say, "okay, he didn't mention ultra hd blu ray either, nothing to see here." He failed to mention the ONE feature that has been in doubt for awhile, and where doubt has increased after the AMD github leak, and it's hardware ray tracing. Notice also microsoft keeps pushing VRS, and there was no mention of that today either, but at least in the case of VRS I can give that one a pass because that is a lesser known, more specific feature whose mention might make less sense on a stage like this if they weren't prepared to go further, which they obviously weren't since this wasn't that type of reveal event for the PS5.

O h fuck off, you were an insufferable fanboy on gaf during the pre-launch period then, and you're doing exactly the same shite now.

Long posts, no content but random noise. Talk about lacking in personal growth over 7 years.
 

Deleted member 2379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,739
I told you to trust your initial numbers. :p

If its a 400 mm2 monster, we might be looking at a 70 cu 3 shader engine chip. 64 active. Clocked at 1.45 ghz.

Nah. That's too many CU and too low of a clock. There will be other stuff baked in that will take up the space. Navi has an ideal speed range. More CU outside that range isn't worth the saved cooling versus chip cost. Expecting 56 active CU
 

natestellar

Member
Sep 16, 2018
835
A first fake insider is exposed AquariusZi no 350 mm2 for Xbox Series X, no 300 mm2 for Oberon, no delay for PS5. This is only a random attention seeket on internet, not the first one and not the last one.

Did that person give the figure for the GPU or the entire APU?

I actually believe they are and suspect sony knows it. I'd love to be proven wrong. I'm going to own a PS5, too, but I don't believe them on hardware ray tracing.

Comprehension is hard.
 

Deleted member 19767

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,098
I've been reading dual GPU 72CU posts on here nonstop along with people claiming AMD tests that list PS4 and PS4 Pro bandwidth and clock speed numbers in tests are unrelated to the PS5, and I'm the delusional one? No, how about you guys stop.

Yes, because the PS5 specs are unknown and it's all speculation, no matter how crazy. What you are doing is claiming that Sony are being deceitful by saying 'hardware ray tracing' on two occasions. There's a clear line between speculation and conspiracy - you've crossed it.
 

KOHIPEET

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,416
So if nothing official comes in February, we should still have a fairly complete picture of both consoles specs at GDC right? I something has to leak this year.
 
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