Kleegamefan is a member who has industry roots, and has been verified by
ZhugeEX and
Hect.
The information they have revealed cannot be verified, but I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that Kleegamefan has come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread until things have been confirmed, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take the information with an open mind, and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
I will update this post with new information from Kleegamefan. (There has been no new information added since OT8, other than the verifications from ZhugeEX and Hect.
Keep in mind that plans can change during the development of consoles, he is just revealing what he knows at that point in time.
There may be some double spaces in some of his posts as a result of copying this into a word processor and back onto the forum, sorry.
The way it was explained to me, and keep in mind this is third hand information, PlayStation 4 BC was always planned but the software engineering needed to get this right took a lot longer than expected.
My personal INTERPRETATION is that SIE planned for their customers to easily migrate from base PS4 platform to future PS platforms (including PRO).
This is during the planning stage before PlayStation 4 launch.
After PS4 launch came the actual development and implementation stage (for BC)and this stage took longer than expected, hence the now late 2020 launch.
So the magic question I have is: once Sony committed to delay the product, did they exploit this extra time to perform any meaningful architectural design changes?
The answer to that question is what I really want to know :(
Wanted to answer some general questions about what I saw.
Game was not shown behind closed doors at e3
Really early
Running on PS5
I didn't see Scarlett so I can't directly compare
Framerate wasn't always smooth....seemed to be in the 20-30fps range
Open world and the scope was unbelievable. Never seen anything like it...far beyond Witcher/BOTW/HZD
Even so, close up details were beyond anything I have seen before
Ray Traced reflections....looks really impressive
Dynamic destructable environments...this game is just WTF
When I asked him about the SSD, he got visably nervous. Didn't want to talk about it at all.
As good as it looks, I get the feeling this isn't a launch game, really early.
That's all I can think of for now.. I should be able to get more information when I go back in October. I will see if I can share anything else at that time.
World detail of The Order 1886+miles long draw distance+fully dynamic world destruction + Ray Traced reflections.
It didn't look very polished like those nVidia/Unreal/Unity demos but at the same time beyond and I could imagine running on an Xbox One X or Pro
So yeah, not like a current game, but not like a GDC demo either. You would have to see it yourself to understand because I can't quite articulate it properly because I can't compare it to anything else.
Just a quick note to say that we were able to verify the poster above as someone who worked in the industry and would be able to access certain levels of information.
That being said, it's near impossible to verify whether the above description is true or not, so please keep in mind that we can't verify whether all the information in each post is correct, just the details i posted above.
Thank you so very much ZhugeEX. I really appreciate it.
To all.
There is no way I can prove to you whether or not I am full of shit or not. All of this information is from memory.
If you don't believe at all, or prefer to take any "insider talk" as take it or leave it rumor, I fully understand and respect that...how could I not?
That said, my personal integrity is a BIG DEAL to me and there are specific reasons for this....
There was a LOT of drama during the early Gamefan days and, without going into too many details, there were a lot of lies spread about me which followed me throughout my career and ultimately led to me removing myself from the gaming industry, which still pains me to this day, decades later.
And because of that, I can neither lie to myself or others. Credibility is so very important because it can be taken away from you in a blink of an eye...
That said there are 3 things vital to me:
My love of my fellow man/women
My love of games
My integrity
In the end, have no fear of "running me off" because no matter what you say or do to me I will still love you all.
I have been a gamer since 1977
You are my people.
So here is the deal.
I specifically asked about general Teraflop performance about Scarlett and PS5.
He said " from what I know, both final console should have double digits TF."
.....keep in mind, this conversation was in late June, after AMD already outlined 5700 and 5700xt were shipping July 7th.....
So then I specifically said."well that would mean greater performance than the new AMD Navi GPUs right?"
....he nodded his head yes!
Now don't shoot me.....I'm just the relay guy... I am not sure how they can ship that much power in a console form factor/price...
Don't @me
Oh forgot to add...all these crazy graphics were on Unreal Engine
That I don't know.....perhaps it was there own plug-in solution...idk...
A long time friend of mine, who is a developer showed me an early next gen game.
I'm just saying compared to GCN, the RDNA architecture is much more efficient per clock but the downside is it yields lower TF numbers.
People will inevitably look at the final numbers and say "well it's not THAT much better than an Xbox One X" and I'm saying that is the wrong way to look at the TF numbers.
IIRC, launch games for both systems are targeted for Holiday 2020
PS5 and Xbox Scarlett will launch together again.....possibly in the same month like last time.
No, actually I didn't. He played me a video of the demo off a USB drive.
No it was real time. It was an internal studio milestone video.
Look guys I don't know what else to say. I saw some cool stuff that I thought I would share. Yes there's some additional sensitive stuff that I can't share as well. There is no way I can yet prove anything yet without getting my source in trouble. You may view that as convenient,. You may not. No need for any hostility. I don't think I deserve that but whatever.
If I disrupted the conversation in any way,I am very sorry..
I am not a liar though....
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
In terms of performance, they are essentially the same
No, they are not that far apart.
Yeah.
Edit: Don't underestimate Microsoft Next-gen. In my opinion, they will have a very compelling gaming solution with Cloud Gaming and Scarlett along with their new studio acquisitions.
Gotta go to work, I will talk later.
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
From what I understand, this is actually a big big deal to them and took years to get right.
Yeah. PlayStation 5 was originally planned to come out next month. The software engineering needed to get BC 101% right was not progressing as fast as they needed.
It is my belief that this is one of (but not the only) reasons Sony delayed PlayStation 5 to holiday 2020.
They made this change in 2017.
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
The demo I saw had the very best real time graphics I've ever seen. And what I mean by that is it looked like a real game you can play.
Not some super polished UE4 or Unity technical demo that you would see at gdc.
To me, there was no mistaking this for a current generation on PC or console.
To be clear, in terms of scope, lighting and environment dynamics, RDR2 or TLOU2 aren't even in the same time zone as this.
and yeah, it kinda was like a Shadowfall moment to me in that it seemed totally different from what I've been used to in the previous generation.
Now granted, Framerate was maybe 25 to 30-ish and it was early, early,early. But I actually said out loud WTF when I first saw it.
Hugely impressive.
One thing I found really interesting was the quality of the shadows. I especially noticed there were some approx 2-3ft high bushes. When they were swaying in the wind they were casting moving shadows with fucking PERFECT detail. No shimmering or stairstepping at all.
And I am talking about a bush with maybe 75-100 branches and 100s of leaves on it!
Casting. Perfect.Fucking. Shadows.
Keep in mind this was just a random, whateverthefuck bush!
Also
The overall picture quality was astoundingly solid....like it used some super duper AA.
The game is full 2160p, but again, has no shimmering whatsoever. Just a really solid resolve to the graphics.
I'm sorry I can't articulate all this better but it's really hard to explain for some reason.
Games and Specs
In the end, I really think that you guys will be way more impressed by the games than the specs.
I was.
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
No. It's not quite like CGI, but it way better than current stuff. I so hope that it shows up in a reveal so you can see it.
I've only seen a multiplatform game running on PS5 development hardware. That said, it should look exactly the same on Xbox Scarlett
Yeah. It's in the ballpark of that AC Unity flyover for sure.
The game was running on a Development kit
It was running on Navi-based hardware. So a current for the time PS5 development kit.(June 2019).
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
Honestly, and this is the last thing I will say about it, but I think some people are going to be disappointed at how similar PS5 and Scarlett hardware are.
It's my belief ( As in I don't really know) that the biggest division will be Exclusive games, UI and services .
. There are at least two more major revisions coming but I don't know the exact details of what that entails
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Control doesn't come close
Not much talk of SSD benefits
SSD was transparent enough I didn't notice it.
I will say there was such a huge, huge diverse amount of unique assets that I am guessing it was that way because of the SSD?
I cannot be sure because he absolutely, positively didn't want to talk about the SSD in any way whatsoever.
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - (October 2019) The PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
PlayStation 5 is supposedly slightly more powerful than the Xbox Scarlett.
Slightly.
This is what I was told.
I did not expect this.
Please don't shoot the messenger.
To be fair, Matt predicted Scarlett is more powerful and he is probably more connected than I am, so....
That said, I was told that yes, PS5 is more powerful.
No I can't really elaborate or go into more detail but.....yeah, my friend, who has been making games since the Dreamcast Era, and who is developing software for both Next-gen consoles said PS5 has the edge.
I am about to go to the airport soon. I will talk to you guys later.
New Dev Kits
Well, I had lunch with my friend yesterday.
At any rate, he didn't have much to say, sadly.
He is still slaving away at the game
Just got updated Scarlett dev kits recently and says new PS5 kits are due soon.
He doesn't have the updated Dual Shock 5 yet.
Game is tentatively scheduled to come out on Stadia too! (Personally exited about this)
That makes four platforms so far (PC/Scarlett/PS5/Stadia)
No current generation version planned
He stressed that all the platforms have been easy to develop for, implying they have all the dev kits?
Game still only has a working title and isn't due until 2021
He read my posts on Era which shocked the shit out of me!
I asked him his opinion on how much these next generation consoles will cost and he said he didn't know but he thinks they wont be cheap.
He has not seen a final design of Scarlett or PS5 yet. He expect no one will until next year. I asked him about OX19 and he said "probably not" which makes me sad.
Lastly I asked him which platform is most exciting to him and he said Stadia by a landslide.
That's about all I can think of. Sorry I couldn't get more information....
I tried.
Performance difference between PlayStation 5 and Scarlet (November 2019)
In response to is there a 30% performance difference:
Hell no.
They are virtually the same
They both use Navi-based GPUs and are more powerful and feature rich than a 5700xt
No GCN Teraflop conversion qualifiers needed.
Historically, PlayStation SDKs have more memory but the same performance as retail units. I don't expect Prospero to be any different.
With Microsoft it's a little bit more guesswork. Scorpio SDK was 6.6TF(they had 44 CUs IIRC) but even so, I don't expect major differences there either.
BTW, both APUs have variable rate shading, I don't remember if I mentioned that before. I checked the Threadmark and I didn't see it anywhere
Nah. It's fast, it just seems like Sony's SSD system (hardware /software)might be really, really fast.
That said, don't worry about Scarlett. It's plenty, plenty powerful.
Right now, game performance is better on PS5. I believe that is probably because PS5 development hardware and software are in a more advanced state. I fully expect Scarlett to close that gap once they ship more mature dev kits and software.
Also
It must be said, since software, not hardware, is a traditional Microsoft area of expertise, it's very possible that they could ultimately deliver more advanced DirecX development software in the end allowing games to run better on Scarlett even if the hardware is less capable.
I don't know this to be the case, but the possibility can't be discounted.
There is no double digit performance difference.
Both PS5/Scarlett have double digit performance (I.e. over 10.0TF)
Lockhart
Lockhart is a codename for a rumoured next generation console from Microsoft, its rumoured to be a less powerful alternative to Scarlet, however Microsoft haven't revealed anything other than Scarlet, which they announced at E3 2019. This lead people to believe that it doesn't exist, so discussions about it died down.
Discussions of Lockhart have popped up again, from these discussions, Kleegamefan commented on the matter where he said that he was informed that Lockhart is not a thing.
I was specifically told Lockhart is not a thing.
As in, games are not being made for a lower spec Scarlett.
If Tom or anyone else has some credible information that states otherwise, I'm all ears.
There has been more information about Lockhart from other sources: Kotaku - Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
This was Kleegamefan's response:
(Matt's post for context)
Two SKUs were a thing, and then they were not a thing, and then they were not not a thing, and then this week.
Honestly Matt, I am as surprised as you are.
I was absolutely told games are not being developed for Lockhart!
Something changed for sure. Time to take the L and eat some crow on this.
I'm going to try to find out more about this, though because something has changed recently.
Potential release window and target platforms for the game Kleegamefan saw:
2021
Next-gen only
PC/Scarlett /PS5/Stadia
Xbox Series X could be 12 TF (NAVI)
*wise fwom your gwave*
OMG where are all the Xbox insider evangelicals to clarify all this
NO it's not GCN flops
YES it's Navi flops
Xbox Series X performance is actually slightly ABOVE 12(Navi) TFs
Xbox (Anaconda) Series X eats monsters (Scorpio) for breakfast
The GCN architecture is HISTORY, y'all. MS/Sony only talk in terms of RDNA now
Ay Carumba
Now I'm actually leaving for sure.
I will return to talk about Next gen again after the PS5 reveal.
Buh-bye
PlayStation 5 reveal in February?
In February, there I said it.
Possible Xbox Series X GPU Compute Unit Count? (Retail? Dev Kit?)
Post made in response to GPU clock speed calculation
1475MHz x 4096 stream processors x 2 = 12.083 teraflops
Kleegamefan comments on Oberon leak
He says that the specs he is aware of do not match the leak. If Oberon is related to the PlayStation 5, this could suggest that Oberon is an older design of the upcoming console.
Well, can you confirm that what you know of specs do not match the GitHub Oberon leak?