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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Proberly already been asked but this 12TF for the series x are we talking GCN TF which would put the RDNA version at the PS5 rumored spec?.
I know TF dosent really mean what it did before but if phil is on record saying 2X the xbox one X then a RDNA 12TF would be like 15TF of GCN?. Really love but hate this run up to next gen with all the crap that fly's around.
I know TF dosent really mean what it did before but if phil is on record saying 2X the xbox one X then a RDNA 12TF would be like 15TF of GCN?. Really love but hate this run up to next gen with all the crap that fly's around.
Current rumors peg XSX at 12 TF and PS5 somewhere below that.
Not if it's used as a general gauge of overall prowess between gpus of different generational spec.
Then it's a useful shorthand for something very different and can have an approximate weight applied to estimate real world results all other aspects (CPU, Memory Bandwidth etc being equal)
Indeed, a teraflop is a teraflop, but a 12 teraflop RDNA box will still be get better results in games than a 12 teraflop GCN box.
More graphical features, higher framerates. Or something like that.
Presuming AMD's ray tracing patents are indicative of the most likely approaches? No. Both conventional geometry processing and shading and ray tracing require tons of floating point math at reasonable precision, and having that much raw computational capability consumes die space. Rather than dividing the GPU into ray traced and conventional shader cores, having a shared set of computational fundamentals and then offering multiple ways of using that resource makes a great deal of sense.
Games that do a ton of ray tracing will almost certainly do so at the expense of conventional GPU tasks and vice versa.
As is always the case in engineering, both hardware and software, it's a matter of determining what compromise you're willing to make to achieve the results you think are most important. Developers are going to start the generation by brute-forcing some things they've never been able to do before, but they'll learn their way into more subtle and sophisticated ways of getting similar results more efficiently. That's why things always get more interesting a few years into a console generation. This one may get more of a running start than usual, but where there are major changes in architecture (ray tracing, SSD) we'll see the same kind of learning curve.
Phil said twice the power and not twice the performance.
Power means twice the tf so it'll be 12tf RDNA.
Thanks to mods/admins for approving my account and for the warm welcome!
I've been a long time lurker to the point that I feel like I know many of you.
And now this is the thread that particularly motivates me to give a couple of personal thoughts.
Talking about PS5/Oberon:
It's really hard for me to believe that they would include 36CUs @2000Mhz inside of an APU.
That would be a 5700, plus boost, plus 250Mhz.
It's really suspicious, and it should raise more than a few eyebrows.
The test is real, for sure. But what I think is that we're seeing a cut down to 36CUs test in all three modes (Gen0, Gen1, and Gen2),
in which they're pushing from both BK modes, up to the extreme (2Ghz) for test purposes.
In my humble opinion, they have a wider (probably 52 active CUs) chip, @1600Mhz or close, and we are seeing part of the equation in these leaks.
Well, happy new year to everyone.
I've been a long time lurker to the point that I feel like I know many of you.
And now this is the thread that particularly motivates me to give a couple of personal thoughts.
Talking about PS5/Oberon:
It's really hard for me to believe that they would include 36CUs @2000Mhz inside of an APU.
That would be a 5700, plus boost, plus 250Mhz.
It's really suspicious, and it should raise more than a few eyebrows.
The test is real, for sure. But what I think is that we're seeing a cut down to 36CUs test in all three modes (Gen0, Gen1, and Gen2),
in which they're pushing from both BK modes, up to the extreme (2Ghz) for test purposes.
In my humble opinion, they have a wider (probably 52 active CUs) chip, @1600Mhz or close, and we are seeing part of the equation in these leaks.
Well, happy new year to everyone.
Reasonable take. It's odd so many people took 9.2TF as gospel and didn't sprinkle with a dash of salt. Can't wait for them to unveil details hopefully next month.
This is easily explained away by saying that they are not at final Silicon. There will likely be tweaks. Its been reported the they are targeting 12 TF.
I don't know if you guys noticed it or maybe it has already been discussed, back in 2018 Godfall(PS5 launch title) was initally planned to release in 2019. Maybe Sony's plan was to release PS5 in 2019 but they decided to delay PS5 release for 1 year to get better/stronger GPU to better match next Xbox. Just a thought...
"Its new game is a fantasy third-person online action title called Godfall, which Lee says gets many team members back to their roots of working on larger projects, such as when he worked on the Diablo and Ratchet & Clank series prior to starting Counterplay. The team plans to release the game in 2019. "
"Its new game is a fantasy third-person online action title called Godfall, which Lee says gets many team members back to their roots of working on larger projects, such as when he worked on the Diablo and Ratchet & Clank series prior to starting Counterplay. The team plans to release the game in 2019. "
Welcome to Era, friend :). Agreed. At one point in 2012, there was talk of Sony using two 6770s in SLI (both 10CU parts) in their dev kits only to release the PS4 with a more powerful 7970 derived GPU with 18CUs..
I'm sure we're not seeing the full picture here...
Most logical guess always seems to a point to a 52CU GPU and it uses 36CU for Backwards Compatibility mode with a PS5 type Boost Mode at a higher clock than the Pro.
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Kleegamefan - Next Generation Console Information V4
OP
OP
Kleegamefan is a member who has industry roots, and has been verified by ZhugeEX and Hect.
The information they have revealed cannot be verified, but I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that Kleegamefan has come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread until things have been confirmed, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take the information with an open mind, and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
I will update this post with new information from Kleegamefan. (There has been no new information added since OT8, other than the verifications from ZhugeEX and Hect.
Keep in mind that plans can change during the development of consoles, he is just revealing what he knows at that point in time.
There may be some double spaces in some of his posts as a result of copying this into a word processor and back onto the forum, sorry.
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games and Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The game was running on a Development kit
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - (October 2019) The PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
Performance difference between PlayStation 5 and Scarlet (November 2019)
In response to is there a 30% performance difference:
Lockhart
Lockhart is a codename for a rumoured next generation console from Microsoft, its rumoured to be a less powerful alternative to Scarlet, however Microsoft haven't revealed anything other than Scarlet, which they announced at E3 2019. This lead people to believe that it doesn't exist, so discussions about it died down.
Discussions of Lockhart have popped up again, from these discussions, Kleegamefan commented on the matter where he said that he was informed that Lockhart is not a thing.
There has been more information about Lockhart from other sources: Kotaku - Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
This was Kleegamefan's response:
(Matt's post for context)
Potential release window and target platforms for the game Kleegamefan saw:
Xbox Series X could be 12 TF (NAVI)
PlayStation 5 reveal in February?
Possible Xbox Series X GPU Compute Unit Count? (Retail? Dev Kit?)
Post made in response to GPU clock speed calculation
1475MHz x 4096 stream processors x 2 = 12.083 teraflops
Kleegamefan comments on Oberon leak
He says that the specs he is aware of do not match the leak. If Oberon is related to the PlayStation 5, this could suggest that Oberon is an older design of the upcoming console.
The information they have revealed cannot be verified, but I've decided to make this post to house the information regarding the next generation consoles that Kleegamefan has come across.
It would be wise to exercise caution regarding the information they have revealed in this thread until things have been confirmed, however Kleegamefan appears to be a person who strongly values their credibility.
Perhaps try to take the information with an open mind, and please refrain from being hostile towards them. It's okay to question the validity of the information but keep in mind that they can't really prove any of this stuff as it could get themselves and their sources in trouble, which we don't want to do at all.
Kleegamefan has said some fascinating things that I think people will be interested in reading about, so I have quoted some of their posts below:
I will update this post with new information from Kleegamefan. (There has been no new information added since OT8, other than the verifications from ZhugeEX and Hect.
Keep in mind that plans can change during the development of consoles, he is just revealing what he knows at that point in time.
There may be some double spaces in some of his posts as a result of copying this into a word processor and back onto the forum, sorry.
Update:
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 1
PlayStation 5 backwards compatibility
Impressions of a Next Generation Game targeting PC and Next Generation Consoles
Games and Specs
The Next Generation game that Klee saw was the biggest open world they had ever seen in terms of scope.
Image Quality
The game was running on a Development kit
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 2
How this Next Gen game compares to Control on PC with RTX (Ray tracing)
Not much talk of SSD benefits
The performance difference between the PS5 and Scarlett Part 3 - (October 2019) The PS5 is allegedly slightly more powerful than Xbox Scarlet
New Dev Kits
Performance difference between PlayStation 5 and Scarlet (November 2019)
In response to is there a 30% performance difference:
Lockhart
Lockhart is a codename for a rumoured next generation console from Microsoft, its rumoured to be a less powerful alternative to Scarlet, however Microsoft haven't revealed anything other than Scarlet, which they announced at E3 2019. This lead people to believe that it doesn't exist, so discussions about it died down.
Discussions of Lockhart have popped up again, from these discussions, Kleegamefan commented on the matter where he said that he was informed that Lockhart is not a thing.
There has been more information about Lockhart from other sources: Kotaku - Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
This was Kleegamefan's response:
(Matt's post for context)
Potential release window and target platforms for the game Kleegamefan saw:
Xbox Series X could be 12 TF (NAVI)
PlayStation 5 reveal in February?
Possible Xbox Series X GPU Compute Unit Count? (Retail? Dev Kit?)
Post made in response to GPU clock speed calculation
1475MHz x 4096 stream processors x 2 = 12.083 teraflops
Kleegamefan comments on Oberon leak
He says that the specs he is aware of do not match the leak. If Oberon is related to the PlayStation 5, this could suggest that Oberon is an older design of the upcoming console.
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that could also be explained by the game initially targetting PC first, or perhaps it was even PC and current gen, before shifting to PS5. I mean that article is from September 2018. Even if Sony originally planned for a 2019 launch, they would have changed their plan before that. But I don't think 2019 ever made sense, given the PS4 has been selling so strongly and they had a very strong line up for the system.
Isn't 36cu@2000mhz listed as Native as opposed to BCx like the others?
Why would they boost to 2000 or even 1800 if they intend to run it at 1600 for ps5? 1600 is already way above the 800/900 ps4 and pro use. What would that 2x increase give them? I'd bet even 1600 is enough to get old games to whatever fidelity/performance they want.
Dictator (Digital Foundry) - Ray-Traced Global Illumination examples
They are probably not "the best" since the models themselves have that massive subjective quality to them. But they definitely do not lose as much of their splendor in shadow / in gameplay due to the RT GI. Here some screens:
Voxel Probe GI
RT GI
Voxel Probe GI
RT GI
If you notice, the skin is evently lit with the Voxel Probe GI. It essentially glows in shadow and lacks much of the depth - also none of the sub-surface scattering is showing.
RT GI on the other hand has 1/multiple directions of light hitting the face, and multiple shadows... not just directionless AO and directionless probes which just wrap "light" around the head.
If someone posted that picture of Drake in Gameplay, in a scene where there is only indirect lighting in shadow, it looks very much the same.
Notice how the light on drake in the above on the right wraps around and is monotone... it glows just like the Voxel Probe GI in metro :D
1. I guess it depends how good AMD's RT solution is with very divergent rays, which is what RT GI is. It is more expensive on average than reflections on Turing. It also seems to benefit the most from Turings split int32/fp32 performance.
2. If too expensive even RT reflections with a low roughness cut off help a lot to make models in shadows have a much more accurate specular response, it would help prevent the specular glow you seen in shadows, but the diffuse would still be wrong. If you go back to my BF V RT Reflections video, I show a scene on a beach with SSR + Probes vs. Probes vs Low Roughness Cutoff RT Reflections and all that wierd in-shadow glow is eliminated in the RT reflections.
Even if RT GI is too expensive, RT AO helps a lot - or perhaps there are less expensive ways to have smaller RT GI like effects in a closer radius around the game cameras that have yet to be invented. The indirect diffuse lighting from Control is a localised form of GI that works pretty well and helps a lot for in-shadow objects. Cheaper than the RT GI in metro as well.
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Just woke up. What impossible new technology that isn't even being used in high end gaming PCs is in the PS5 today?
Clearly you must have forgotten about the 56/56 CU 12TF AMD card with fixed function VRS and RTRT in the XSX.
The same GPU that is yet to be confirmed and repeatedly speculated to actually be a 9TF one?
That 12TF GPU?
you asked about
and I delivered. Your welcome.
That's why the more I think of the ray tracing on a separate chip option would be beneficial, that doing the rt workload, freeing up GPU resources (if it works like that?)
Smaller GPUs are cheaper to make than bigger GPUs related to their size. But multi-GPU carries a lot of problems with it. We will get there someday, but it will be multi-chiplets, not multi-chips.
We are going into uncharted waters. Just like when DLC had started in 2006 with the 360, we are going to get some free stuff, some expensive horse armor that people don't know how to swallow and weird experiments.
I think that after the smoke clears, we are going to see a lot of games running in BC mode exactly like they did last gen with an option to buy an "enhanced" patch.
Shadows offload some work but reflections require heavy shader work so the still strain the shaders. But it depends on AMD's implementation, I'm talking about NV's.
1. Yes, RT hardware can help any lighting based calculation, hit detection and visibility checks.
2. If you go high enough in shadow map resolution and amount of shadows on screen, RT shadows actually become cheaper than rasterized shadows. Generally speaking RT shadows aren't that expensive.
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On the Plus side, at least it's been consistent with the Series X. The PS5 has undergone at least 47 revisions over the last 3 OTs lol
There are still people arguing those are GCN Flops hehe. MS did well to get their message out there early.
Not sure myself.
Purely based on the more concrete information that's been going around, it appears like we're heading towards 9 and 12
The issue seems to stem from the fact that many have their panties in a twist over that difference despite it not meaning much given the rest of the parts will be borderline the same.
Both of them will be capable of 4K/60 so I'm not sure why it matters like it did last gen where one was capable of 1080 consistently and the other struggled to hit 900.
Two Xbox Sku's existing basically confirmed (for me) that Xbox will have one box that will be pricey and be the spec leader.
Both consoles will be good and it's not going to matter sales wise which console has the better specs.
Anyone with a 5700 GPU in here? How well does it run RPCS3 with a similar CPU to what we will get next gen?
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