• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Deleted member 2379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,739
Worldwide the price of Lockhart won't be an issue. MS may gain some traction on US/UK.

Worldwide $499 is a high bar. Remember Sony has publicly stated they want to accelerate transition to next gen. $499 doesn't do that. Especially if you competitor is out there with a box $200 cheaper that is next gen. Would be curious to see how prevalent 4k TV penetration is in the ROW.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.
The same exact argument could be made that Lockhart impacts XSX sales, which it most likely would.
 

TraumaRN

Member
Dec 29, 2019
22
My friend would it be possible that each shakespeare character is a gpu designed to run a generation of Playstation game and to find them all in the PS5 we have BigNavi APU ???
Pretty doubtful there. More likely it's related to disabling cores/dynamic clock speeds. However, there was that one time when they placed the PS2 emotion engine inside the PS3 for BC. It's the reason one of the PS3 SKUs cost so much at launch. It'd just be too expensive.
But more to your point, I do wonder how this relates to regression test results that have been floating around.
 
Last edited:

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
I'd expect Sony to be close, 10-15% either way is not a big deal but 30-40% can be like in the case of the PS4 and XBO. Of course to some people they will make the slightest difference a big deal, I'm talking in general.
 
Aug 26, 2019
6,342
Ehh, same holiday season is enough to be "the same" from a consumer and gamer perspective I think. Whether it's a week apart or three, it's effectively the same. Now if someone were to launch in June and the other in November, that's a more substantial gap for sure.
IMO 2-3 weeks makes a difference for the folks that want to play next-gen NBA 2K/Madden 21/COD right-now and will just get the console that releases earlier. The ones that don't have a preference between Xbox and PS
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Might want to read the staff post. Posting any insider information without verifying its validity is a ban. Applies to everyone.
Huh? No one has verified Tom Warren, Klobrille or hmqgg's information before they post it. They just post it. No one is keeping you from discussing anything these people have said. They all post and contribute here.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,588

This is exactly Microsoft's strategy. Series X makes "Xbox" the most powerful console (regardless of price) and Lockhart will make the next gen "Xbox" cheaper than a PS5. People will either claim that PS5 compared to "Xbox", is underpowered (compared to the Series X) or overpriced (compared to Lockhart).
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.
As most AAA games will be cross-gen the first year or 2, the main competitor of Lockhart may be the PS4 / Pro.

In about 3 years, Sony will probably release PS5 Pro and Microsoft could have a problem because they'll have to release XSX X (like they did with XBX after the Pro) so they'll have 3 Skus in the same gen.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,996
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.
I've said it before, either position is ideal for Sony. I think they can make either situation work.

I didn't realize just how strong their brand was until 8th gen. Never really paid attention before.

And we still don't know the price of each console.

What's funny is some are convinced being in the middle is also bad for Sony. I don't think it is. I think the middle would be perfect tho.
 

Proven

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,841
Huh? No one has verified Tom Warren, Klobrille or hmqgg's information before they post it. They just post it. No one is keeping you from discussing anything these people have said. They all post and contribute here.

I didn't see Warren, Klobrille, or hmqgg claim to have spec sheets
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Might want to read the staff post. Posting any insider information without verifying its validity is a ban. Applies to everyone.

You came here plenty of times "hinting" that the info he or others provided is wrong and MS had the stronger box and you never got verified, so stop with that bullshit.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.

I don't see that slowing down the PS5 at all. Lockhart might get Xbox more customers relative to the Xbox One, but I can also see the PS5 selling at a faster rate than the PS4 did given their huge momentum.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
Previous gens consoles could sell for 2-3 years after the new flagship model launched. And they were already 7 years old, not 2! Hopefully that puts things in perspective:)
I mean I want to believe that things are better over at the Xbox division, but things like this raise my eyebrows. And just for more perspective, people are up in arms saying that there's no way Sony in reality would be taping out APUs that they never planned on manufacturing, but over in actual reality Microsoft is most likely abandoning a 2 year old console.

We're living in interesting times :)
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,745
Well, theoretically between the two MS would prefer to sell the SX, but in general yeah.

Hey Matt, I know you are a trustworthy guy based on the information and knowledge you have provided, but I would like to ask you a questiom that does not involve speculation for what you know but your opinion instead.

What is your outlook on Ms's vision for the launch of the XSX? I mean, we all know that it is much better than how it was in 2013 but would greatly appreciate it if you could share your thoughts with us
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Microsoft could care less about that possible "impact", as they would be selling Xbox consoles regardless.
The lower tier box will most likely be sold at or near cost. IMO they would prefer not to cannibalize the XSX premium box, and I think they may not ship Lockhart at launch for this very reason.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,011
This! I'm repeating this for some time now,it would be a very dangerous situation for Sony and PS5. I'm surprised lots of people can't see that.

How cheaper sku performed at launch / FY in the past generations?

We had IIRC :
  1. PS3 20gb
  2. Xbox 360 Core
  3. WII U 8gb
Also note that these versions had the same capabilities more or less. That won't be the case for lockhart at least according to the current rumors : only digital, less ram, weaker graphic performance etc... A similar example would be the Switch Lite which i don't think it is selling more than the classic model. So it's really hard to say now the impact Lockhart will have on total sales. Marketing and price will be key aspects and we don't know anything about them.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Hey Matt, I know you are a trustworthy guy based on the information and knowledge you have provided, but I would like to ask you a questiom that does not involve speculation for what you know but your opinion instead.

What is your outlook on Ms's vision for the launch of the XSX? I mean, we all know that it is much better than how it was in 2013 but would greatly appreciate it if you could share your thoughts with us
Hmm, not exactly sure what you mean by "vision for the launch." Can you elaborate?
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,559
At this point we know a lot of what can we expect from MS next gen with gamepass, streaming, 2 SKU approach, PC support, more first party studios etc.

From Sony on the other hand we know very little. Will it be PS4 2.0 or will it be different?

It's hard for me to make predictions not knowing what Sony is planning to do.
 

Deleted member 2379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,739
The same exact argument could be made that Lockhart impacts XSX sales, which it most likely would.

Lockhart can exist because you price Series X at a premium to capture margin and have the powerful box. Lockhart will be a strong driver of sales into your ecosystem.

More likely than not, Lockhart buyers would not be Series X buyers until a price drop. Those focused on the tech will go high end, everyone else is more price sensitive. Only having a box at $499 is a tough sell when your competition can match you there and undercut into the ecosystem by pricing 40% lower.

Remember the biggest jumps this gen are CPU and SSD. Lockhart will have both. The window dressing with graphics will not be the biggest change this gen.

Even before the github leak, I had been hearing rumors of and seeing the value in a 9-10 TF box for PS. They possibly hit their sweet spot on price at $399 and can work between the MS boxes.

A $499 monster versus a fully back compat $299 box with game pass is a tough sell.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
lmao. so sony is looking to buy Zenimax? thats what $3 billion? i need to leave this thread i had no idea this was even a rumor.

so they wont invest $15-30 in a bigger APU but they are willing to get in a bidding war just for skyrim?

I think this is a bad idea. This is bad for the industry. MS will just turn around and buy take 2. then Nintendo buys EA. Google buys ubisoft and gamers will lose in the end.

Just invest in first party studios. Naughty Dog costs what $10 million a year? GG probably even less. just invest those $3 billion in new studios. give cory a 200 man team. hire back amy. give her a 200 man team. bruce a 300 man team. get ueda a 1000 man team and you will still be under a $100 million a year.
 

Grayson

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Aug 21, 2019
1,768
Worldwide $499 is a high bar. Remember Sony has publicly stated they want to accelerate transition to next gen. $499 doesn't do that. Especially if you competitor is out there with a box $200 cheaper that is next gen. Would be curious to see how prevalent 4k TV penetration is in the ROW.
It won't be $499 forever. Early adopters would frankly pay more if the tech is there. All this worry for nothing IMO.
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,559
Lockhart can exist because you price Series X at a premium to capture margin and have the powerful box. Lockhart will be a strong driver of sales into your ecosystem.

More likely than not, Lockhart buyers would not be Series X buyers until a price drop. Those focused on the tech will go high end, everyone else is more price sensitive. Only having a box at $499 is a tough sell when your competition can match you there and undercut into the ecosystem by pricing 40% lower.

Remember the biggest jumps this gen are CPU and SSD. Lockhart will have both. The window dressing with graphics will not be the biggest change this gen.

Even before the github leak, I had been hearing rumors of and seeing the value in a 9-10 TF box for PS. They possibly hit their sweet spot on price at $399 and can work between the MS boxes.

A $499 monster versus a fully back compat $299 box with game pass is a tough sell.

IMO tougher sell is abandoning your PS4 library of games for other system. Also I wouldn't discount PS5 full BC just yet.
 

Psyrgery

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,745
Hmm, not exactly what what you mean by "vision for the launch." Can you elaborate?

Yeah sorry, my english is just terrible lol. I mean their strategy, and their position/relevancy on the industry.

What do you think of their actual position/direction compared to that "tv tv tv sports sports tv" disaster from 2013 that made them look like a joke to the industry unlike Sony who went straight to a simple, direct and powerful message of only caring about the games and the gamers in general
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.
You wanna know what reality looks like?

 

Brees2Thomas

Member
Dec 27, 2019
1,525
For everyone on the PS5 is equal to Series X train, do you think that is a great spot to be in for PS as a platform?

Let's say they are essentially equivalent in price and specs at $499. MS launches Lockhart alongside Series X at $299. I see that as a very big problem for the PS platform considering the attractiveness of Lockhart as entry into next gen.

$200 is a lot.

Sony's ideal situation is to be sandwiched between the two MS consoles, unless they are launching a cheaper one of their own. Best case scenario for both is the MS sandwich. Sony only having a $499 console that is equal in specs to the Series X is a dangerous spot to be in with Lockhart existing.
Since Sony already has the largest player base by far; I'd say price will matter very little to the PS5's success, assuming it's not over $500.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,011
lmao. so sony is looking to buy Zenimax? thats what $3 billion? i need to leave this thread i had no idea this was even a rumor.

so they wont invest $15-30 in a bigger APU but they are willing to get in a bidding war just for skyrim?

I think this is a bad idea. This is bad for the industry. MS will just turn around and buy take 2. then Nintendo buys EA. Google buys ubisoft and gamers will lose in the end.

Just invest in first party studios. Naughty Dog costs what $10 million a year? GG probably even less. just invest those $3 billion in new studios. give cory a 200 man team. hire back amy. give her a 200 man team. bruce a 300 man team. get ueda a 1000 man team and you will still be under a $100 million a year.
I find extremely hard to believe that Sony is looking into buying a publisher.
 

Deleted member 2379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,739
Well, theoretically between the two MS would prefer to sell the SX, but in general yeah.

Of course, but I think from their perspective a Lockhart sale is not necessarily a sale that would have been at SX at $499. In theory the SX should have better margins depending on the final specs. The purpose of a premium box is margin not share.

Sony's ideal position is the middle ground if they just have one box. They can have a baseline of power and not get squeezed.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
Max I believe inside the xsx 56cus 64 rops and 1600mhz
11.4tflops

300-350w tdp
Disagree. The massive CPU bumps will result in significant changes to frame rates. We can look at tests in PC gaming to see where those extra resources will be allocated. Ray tracing is more of a GPU task. Only reason you'd need to go back down to 30 fps is if there's a massive jump in physics or AI. Devs are not going to get overly creative in these next few years allocating CPU resources to new things. They'll go for the easy wins with these resources first. That means 4K/60 and ray tracing. Again the exception is if there's advanced physics, particle effects, environmental interaction waiting in the wings to be added to next gen games. I always expect those types of things to take time.
4k 60 fps and ray tracing you understand is not possible right? Or will be a ridiculous low rt.

Games evolve. Consoles are static. 2-3 years after launch of course we gonna have a lot of games sub 4k and most of them at 30 fps.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
lmao. so sony is looking to buy Zenimax? thats what $3 billion? i need to leave this thread i had no idea this was even a rumor.

so they wont invest $15-30 in a bigger APU but they are willing to get in a bidding war just for skyrim?

I think this is a bad idea. This is bad for the industry. MS will just turn around and buy take 2. then Nintendo buys EA. Google buys ubisoft and gamers will lose in the end.

Just invest in first party studios. Naughty Dog costs what $10 million a year? GG probably even less. just invest those $3 billion in new studios. give cory a 200 man team. hire back amy. give her a 200 man team. bruce a 300 man team. get ueda a 1000 man team and you will still be under a $100 million a year.

It's not happening that's just fan fiction.

Elder Scrolls franchise
Fallout franchise
Doom

Those 3 alone will be a shit ton of money.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,996
A new narrative is emerging ahah ;)

Maybe, lol
I mean I want to believe that things are better over at the Xbox division, but things like this raise my eyebrows. And just for more perspective, people are up in arms saying that there's no way Sony in reality would be taping out APUs that they never planned on manufacturing, but over in actual reality Microsoft is most likely abandoning a 2 year old console.

We're living in interesting times :)
Yeah, I saw the earlier posts..this is a good point I never realized.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
In what way? The X1X and PS3 also had to quickly work to lower their price too. The hardcore buy launch week but a console needs a good price to maintain sales throughout the first year. Their aren't 15 million hardcore gamers buying these systems first year.



When has a $499 console reached critical mass? Unless if you mean by DOA exactly zero consoles sold. I don't think these manufacturers want to be dropping prices within six months to maintain sales. Which if they are going for $499 they need cheaper boxes as well to maintain sales throughout the first year.
They have other console for critical mass. A casual gamer don't need a anaconda. They don't even know what resolution and fps is.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
lmao. so sony is looking to buy Zenimax? thats what $3 billion? i need to leave this thread i had no idea this was even a rumor.

so they wont invest $15-30 in a bigger APU but they are willing to get in a bidding war just for skyrim?

I think this is a bad idea. This is bad for the industry. MS will just turn around and buy take 2. then Nintendo buys EA. Google buys ubisoft and gamers will lose in the end.

Just invest in first party studios. Naughty Dog costs what $10 million a year? GG probably even less. just invest those $3 billion in new studios. give cory a 200 man team. hire back amy. give her a 200 man team. bruce a 300 man team. get ueda a 1000 man team and you will still be under a $100 million a year.

Lol so far it's just a rumor from a random reddit account. We have no other solid sources to back it up.

If, by some chance this person is correct then the deal is expected to happen either at the end of Jan or start of Feb. If there is any truth then real news outlets will probably report on it pretty soon.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Yeah sorry, my english is just terrible lol. I mean their strategy, and their position/relevancy on the industry.

What do you think of their actual position/direction compared to that "tv tv tv sports sports tv" disaster from 2013 that made them look like a joke to the industry unlike Sony who went straight to a simple, direct and powerful message of only caring about the games and the gamers in general
Ah.

It's a much more focused vision, I think gamers really don't have anything to worry about on that front. The SX is a game console, Game Pass is a subscription gaming service, xCloud is a game streaming platform, etc. It's not going to be diluted.
 

Kingdizzi

Banned
Aug 11, 2019
745
This is a pretty funny thread to be honest, we have gone from PS4 is 9TF Sony done fucked up with power, back again to PS4 12TF too expensive Sony fucked up.

I'm curious where people think Lockhart is gonna make an impact. Price don't mean much when the product is not desirable, so it's gonna do numbers in UK and UK and not much anywhere else.
 

idioteque

Member
Nov 8, 2017
613

Being primarily an Xbox gamer (though I do also own a PS4 and Switch) I do watch a lot of Dealer's videos. Whilst he is an extreme fan boy, I do believe he has some sources who are on the inside of MS related stuff. Or he's just got very lucky with some of his previous content. Though, can't imagine he knows shit about the Playstation 5 though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.