Interesting. I assume he must be a highup in the company to know what he knows at this point.
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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake!
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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not at all, get the negative out the way first and let the show be about the games.
then announce it's like 9 tf and the response would be completely different to how it would go if this wasn't leaked first, I can absolutely promise you that.
I'm no expert but no way is that 36CU @2GHZ leak final PS5 kit. How can anyone who builds PC's believe an APU with 3.2GHZ CPU with 8 cores and 16 threads have a GPU with 36CU @2GHZ? What cooling method and power draw are they gonna have in a console? They would need a very very good cooling solution and a hefty power supply. It seems to me just testing of an early dev kit
And there is still another kit to come.
We aren't in a position to know what is and isn't relevant to the retail version coming Holiday 2020.
And Sony isn't using GitHub. They'd use an internal Git repo, if they're even using Git.
Of course they are - try trading dvdrips with your buddies through a private github and see how long that lasts.
But that's not what I am saying. I am saying as soon as it is flipped to public, it is in MS hands and nothing can be done to take it back. Unlike if you accidentally made public on literally any other file sharing service.
Not to reiterate this again, but it seems like this has to be repeated in every thread.
Price sensitive people do NOT buy consoles at launch en masse. If you think they can't even afford a $60 game for a console, how are they going to afford to buy a $300 console right away? Price sensitive buyers are the LAST people to buy a console if the only thing you have to sell them on is price.
Product adoption is driven by a need or a pain point that you hit on for buyers. It is not caused by just presenting pretty prices.
Case in point: Xbox hasn't been a leading seller in years despite regularly selling for $100 less than PS4 and Switch at most stores. And that's with Game Pass today. You're increasing the price and expecting that to change, why?
then again, no one has come out to say that the ps5 isnt 9 tflops. colin, reiner, jason and klee are all silent.
klee i understand because he has confirmed it before. but i find it weird that no one has contacted tom warren, jason, reiner or colin to say hey the ps5 is not 9 tflops.
you're right, but I just can't believe it. I just feel sony have something up their sleeve. All this 36 cu talk and 9 tf doesn't make sense to me.
If Sony does another February PS meeting like they did for PS4, invites should be going out soon. Hopefully we hear something on that soon.
I wouldn't say anything either if I was in their position. They've already said enough and people still don't listen to it anyway. We're probably less than 2 months from the actual info. Just let the circus continue until then.
They might not be using it to store their most secretive of secrets, but they are using GitHub.
I know it is going to be a long, long time OP Mecha Meister but given the amount of effort you have consistently put into making these OPs, I'd like to formally put forth my first pick for OT 10 title:
|OT 10| The Mecha of all next gen speculation
|OT 10| The Mecha of all next gen speculation
A word play on that. Mecca is colloquially used to denote haven for or of something highly prized.
If it gets taken down, it'll be because:
- Someone (with access to the private repo) found the content and reported it.
- GitHub, using its automated scanning technology which looks for things like child pornography and IP abuse, finds it.
Yes that's why it's better. What do consoles have to do with mecha anyway. A pointless play.
This is the first post you responded to and our first encounter. That was not about 9.2tf not being enough for some buyers. Of course price is the "casual" driving force. Why would i refute that? That would just be silly. Since English is not my first language i probably need to explain what i think the difference is between causal and hardcore.
An casual person will buy a system when the price is right (that is not static so it depends) and the content is there. An hardcore person will buy something at a higher price because they have a lust for extras (power, features, memory, etc) even if the content is still not there to take advantage off it. The difference can only be a couple of percentage but for them it's worth the extra price. For example: RTX 2080 = 1.267€ compared to an RTX 2060 = 386€. You can play games on both and it will look stunning but only 1 type of person would buy the far more expensive one. Now of course with consoles the differences are far more reasonable and it's also not a apple to apple comparison. Perhaps a better comparison would be memory. One is 16gb for 100€ and the other is 200€ even through the differences are minimal and perhaps not noticeable.
If i remember correctly (the conversation you are referring to) that was not about that price isn't important but that people will move over without any consideration for anything else because Sony created something and that no one will look at other systems. That 100 mil people will just buy Sony because Sony. I think it was something about 6TF is all that is needed for Sony to succeed. Is it really that weird for me to think that Sony needs to do more than just to exist to get people to buy their system and do as well as they do now (100mil +)?
Sure, i don't disagree with that and i don't think i ever said different. What i said was for me and some other people that would not be enough to buy the system day one and that i don't want them to succeed that way because i want them to make powerful systems(more powerful than they normally would). Is it selfish? Of course it is. Its also not going to be reality :). But that doesn't mean i can't selfishly hope that they will go beyond themselves and create a very powerful system.
You don't need to apologize about anything. It's fine, its not that serious. For me this is just a conversation about a hobby we both enjoy.
Yeah you are missing a bit of context there. That comment was about a time were users were misquoting people and putting words in their mouth. Some were really paraphrasing to fit a narrative and not just quoting the whole sentence.Insider a said that, insider b said that but if you actually look at what they said they were leaving little things out to fit a narrative. It went so far that jschreier had to come in and correct people on what he actually said. But hey, if you think that's ok than good for you. I don't, but whatever.
My comment is not about hardcore vs TF and early adaptors.. Most of the people that buy systems day one will buy it day one. But that does not mean that they will buy PS5 day one. Perhaps they will go to a different system first. Who knows. My comment that you responded to is only about what Sony/insiders/reporters are telling us compared to the github leak and why i think there is more to that story than it looks like.
I think i did very well with writing so much while having too much to drink and seeing blurry. I think I'm addicted to reading era lol.
Yeah people have a perspective from the US and European side only and they are big markets but people often ignore growing markets where 499$ is cost-prohibitive and even 399$
Different RT can be interpreted multiple ways (as can much of this whole discussion...)
- both use AMD RT hardware, but MS has better tools with DXR for devs to hit the ground running. Possible but generally Sony tools have been solid
- Sony using alternate RT solution. Wildcard here - could mean faster or slower. Maybe they Werner confident in AMD solution at the time they needed to finalise designs so went elsewhwre? Would be a potentially big risk though
- both use AMD RT hardware, but MS has better tools with DXR for devs to hit the ground running. Possible but generally Sony tools have been solid
- Sony using alternate RT solution. Wildcard here - could mean faster or slower. Maybe they Werner confident in AMD solution at the time they needed to finalise designs so went elsewhwre? Would be a potentially big risk though
Oh interesting.
Edit: i see now looking at your original post. My bad.
he knew the ps5 specs a year ago. it makes no sense.
he said the ps5 gpu was 2.1 ghz in october 2018. but then the mod posted the info he provided and it said 1.2 instead. maybe he sent the mods the wrong info? regardless, the problem here is that he said once he was verified he would tell eveyrone everything. but then he disappeared without a trace and only showed up last month.
now hes saying the ps5 is stronger, has better rt and played some games with their users and then disappeared again.
yeah, he leaked the pro but i dont think anyone at gamestop knows specs.
Some information is from credible sources, some isn't. It's like anything else, analyze the information, if there are holes that cannot be explained with anything approaching common sense, approach the information with a high degree of hesitation. If at the end, it comes down to what you want to be true rather than what is possible to be true, or what is most likely to be true, as long as the information is presented with those caveats, I personally don't see a problem with it.
The tflops themselves I don't think are the issue, we all want to see the damn games. What does 12 TF in a closed system like an XSX look like? Does it look like Hellblade 2? If so, this gen is going to be ridiculous graphics wise for AAA.
Also the Patriots shouldn't be a favorite in any game, they lost to the friggin Dolphins.
a 2.1 ghz gpu clock makes me rather uneasy for some reason. Sounds deadly.
You're trying to have this OT done in a week? If you pay attention some ppl are already irritated by the HBM talk...
I'll take one ticket for HBM, please. Thanks.
I thought Navi21 was going to be talked about at CES. Guess not now.
That's because Fitzpatrick is 🐐 at times and other times he's 💩
Anyways, we are now in the year that next-gen consoles release which is very exiting. It must be awesome for those of you that have been speculating since 2017.
I think Tom is just making a guess and has no insider knowledge on the PS5
God I can't wait for PS5 reveal. Been watching these old PS4 reveal vids to pass the time till then.
This was the first time I ever heard about PS4. Me and my brother was so excited.
This was the first time I ever heard about PS4. Me and my brother was so excited.
Is there any guessing how AMDs RT will work? On Nvidia is it a sequential step therefore increasing time per pixel whenever it's used (regardless of how fast it is)?
if RT is widespread could that by itself ensure more games targeting 30fps? And maybe 'performance' option disables RT to booste framerates?
if RT is widespread could that by itself ensure more games targeting 30fps? And maybe 'performance' option disables RT to booste framerates?
NX Gamer's video is the best and most logical one imo. It's more likely they used 5700 with a 2ghz clock to bump it up to their target perf (10tf) for dev kits while they work on the actual APU design that will be taped out for the console. 2ghz in a console box without the kind of cooling that only MS is really willing to spend money for seems unrealistic. Maybe they will go wide and slow as well.
I would say it's more of an "educated" guess. Tom is a pretty connected dude in the industry.
A pointed question I've not seen answered in my religious reading of these threads:
Many have pointed out the infeasibility of Sony dumping an initial SoC design (e.g., a Navi10 36 CU chip for 2019 release) for a new chip (big Navi for 2020) due to the cost it would incur - Sony would be throwing many millions down the drain for nothing. Hence, Oberon is indicative of what we'll see in PS5.
But do these same cost concerns apply if Sony explicitly requested Oberon for testing purposes? I.e., as an interim chip merely to get work on BC/OS/tools going, with the knowledge that the 'actual' PS5 chip would be coming not for some time (I suppose simply because big Navi wasn't manufacturable at that point?).
In this case, if Sony just asked AMD to put together a "quick and dirty" APU consisting of a bog standard Navi 10 GPU + bog standard Zen2, would the same cost be incurred from its tapeout as a customized Oberon that was specifically intended for PS5?
Is this scenario even possible? I'm thinking probably not - a quick scan of AMD APUs seems to show that the only one to incorporate Zen2 won't release until 2020 (Renoir, and that appears to merely include Vega). Thus, it would seem Sony would have spent the same costs taping out an "uncustomized" Zen2+Navi APU, since it wasn't or isn't in design.
I probably answered my own question, and my wordiness was all for naught, but I nevertheless am interested in others' perspectives.
Edit: this "uncustomized" theory would make a lot more sense if they used a discrete 5700, but didn't some leak indicate Oberon/Flute/Ariel to be an APU?
Many have pointed out the infeasibility of Sony dumping an initial SoC design (e.g., a Navi10 36 CU chip for 2019 release) for a new chip (big Navi for 2020) due to the cost it would incur - Sony would be throwing many millions down the drain for nothing. Hence, Oberon is indicative of what we'll see in PS5.
But do these same cost concerns apply if Sony explicitly requested Oberon for testing purposes? I.e., as an interim chip merely to get work on BC/OS/tools going, with the knowledge that the 'actual' PS5 chip would be coming not for some time (I suppose simply because big Navi wasn't manufacturable at that point?).
In this case, if Sony just asked AMD to put together a "quick and dirty" APU consisting of a bog standard Navi 10 GPU + bog standard Zen2, would the same cost be incurred from its tapeout as a customized Oberon that was specifically intended for PS5?
Is this scenario even possible? I'm thinking probably not - a quick scan of AMD APUs seems to show that the only one to incorporate Zen2 won't release until 2020 (Renoir, and that appears to merely include Vega). Thus, it would seem Sony would have spent the same costs taping out an "uncustomized" Zen2+Navi APU, since it wasn't or isn't in design.
I probably answered my own question, and my wordiness was all for naught, but I nevertheless am interested in others' perspectives.
Edit: this "uncustomized" theory would make a lot more sense if they used a discrete 5700, but didn't some leak indicate Oberon/Flute/Ariel to be an APU?
That could be the case for the dev kit, but why would AMD be running internal validation testing for Sony BC requirements on a 5700?
Backwards compatibility. This allows them the 36 CUs to do so.
There could be something to it considering the rumors that AMD and Sony had some collaboration when they developed NAVI 10 5700XT and it's APU counterpart, (Ariel -> Oberon).
to you other question, it is now clear that Gonzalo and Flute were the platform (APU) and Ariel/ Oberon is was the iGPU.
So developers can develop games that target 3 modes. PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5 Boost.
PS5's clock is probably at 2.00Ghz, but the CU count is probably not known from the data we have so far.
Still 2019 where I'm at, tell us how is 2020 looking? Anything you can tell us from the future, as long as it doesn't affect space time continuum of course?
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