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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,148
This wouldn't be the first time I've seen you get your hands on this kind of information, so it's not a stretch to believe you did it again this generation.

I don't think that fact .
He just using a current AMD GPU at 40CU @2Ghz as what in the dev kit .
Which would be 4CU less then what people saying PS5 has.
 
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Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
#think

What was the content of the GITHUB leak about for PS5 silicon?
BC regression testing

What does BC testing tell us about RT and other secret sauce on the chip?
Nothing, because hw RT was not a thing this gen as much as other new technologies may find their way into the new silicon. You don't test something you need no BC for in those tests

What does that all mean?
RT and other secret sauce were always part of those tested chips. Burry those unfinished silicon theories.

Will not respond to comments that referencing this here.

Have a good start into 2020! Cu there.
 

PrimeRib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
261
I'm not as technically inclined as some (though I LOVE the analysis taking place on this forum) but all the recent news on the Github leak and what Sony may have up their sleeve to bridge the gap from 9TF to 12Tf. Is it possible they doubled down on Cerny's focus on bottlenecks and instead of the common limitation with bandwidth on APU, went in a bit of a different direction?> If they were able to eliminate the bottlenecks in feeding an ever-hungry GPU, then maybe they determined punching higher becomes meaningless.
 

Dimajjio

Member
Oct 13, 2019
782
Noob question - why is running a graphics processor at 2GHz considered risky when CPUs can easily run at this frequency?
 

PrimeRib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
261
Noob question - why is running a graphics processor at 2GHz considered risky when CPUs can easily run at this frequency?

I believe it has to do with sustained power. CPU's boost and can throttle to control power efficiency/temps. GPU's are designed a bit differently so thermals/sustainable power delivery become the primary issue. (not to mention eventual instability and eventual failure due to shortened life).
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,494
Since you snuck this in at the end of the last OT, figured i'd respond here. There are some reasons NOT to put weight into the Github leak

There are 3 reasons to question the implications of the leaked documents:

1. They are full of mistakes and inaccuracies
  • There are files in wrong folders, there are sub folders and wrong folders. Again, when people say these are legitimate, they mean that this is what is legitimately in the files, not that the files are correct or accurate all the time.
  • The biggest issue is that they claim Spakrman (Lockhart) is 56CUs. Every reason you have to believe Oberon is PS5, you have to believe that Sparkman is Lockhart. Sparkman BC mode indicates it can replicate a One S.
However confident you are that PS5 is 36 CUs, must must be equally confident that Lockhart is 56CUs. Or the other way around, how ever skeptical you are that these leaks confirm Lockhart is 56CUs, you must be equally skeptical these leaks confirm PS5 is 36CUs.

2. The leaks if taken at face value, fly in the face of every credible insider we have, including develeper sources and industry sources, that say the Series X and PS5 are very close in power.
  • We've had Jason Schreier News Editor of Kotaku, Andrew Reiner Executive Editor at Game Informer, Our own Mods, and Vetted industry insider and veteran Klee, and other insiders all say the consoles are close in power.
  • They specifically claim PS5 and Scarlett were close in power according to those sources. And All of that is in the same time window these leaks are from, which according to DF is the point where it's too late to make changes. None of them have come out and said the the tables have turned. The Github leaks are new to us, but they are actually older than the leaks we've gotten from insiders.
So, Actual insiders who actually know about the target specs of the PS5 and Xbox Series X (rather than drawing conclusions from indirect and uncontextualized data points) with a network of sources (instead of an interns notepad) are saying something to the contrary of what the leak indicates at face value.

3. The documents, if taken at face value, don't pass the sniff test, and an alternative makes more sense

  • The test were done without VRR and RT, when we know that at the very least PS5 has RT. This means that the tests we have access to are not the full PS5 in at least one way.
  • 36CUs at 2GHz, is not a reasonable way to hit 9.2TFs, if that's the target. Every bit of historical and contextual data we have for consoles points to a wide and slow approach to console APUs. Efficiencies, Thermals, Cooling Costs, and reliability have all proven to be reasons that trump a lower sized and faster APU. Why would Sony feel any different? What technology would change the equation? I'm not aware of any, so I don't expect that approach to change.
  • 36CUs would also make this the smallest APU Sony has made in a decade. In a world where Sony is dominating in terms of sales and profitability, where they've come out and aid that PS5 is going to be Niche product aimed at the hardcore who what the best and latest, where that is corroborated by their rumoured bleeding edge SSD tech, a small APU doesn't make sense.
  • Digital Foundry Stated in the article that many BC test are being done. If that's true, this could be a BC test right? Well, what would that look like. Presumably, they would want to test a Native PS4 mode, a PS4 Pro mode, and like the PS4 Pro had.... A PS4 Pro Boost mode. What would the Boost mode test look like?
  • A PS4 Pro Boost mode compatibility test would look like this: Exactly the same CUs as the PS4 Pro, An unlocked "full" clock, no RT or VRS hardware activated. What do we have in the leak? 36CUs (exactly the same as the PS4 Pro), 2Ghz, the rumoured full clock of the PS5, No RT and no VRS indicated.
The leaks makes little sense as the Full PS5 hardware, indicating you shouldn't take it as a certainty of the PS5s total performance, and a lot of sense that it's a boost mode PS4 Pro compatibility test so that possibility can't be dismissed.
not only is this a good post questioning things in a logical way that makes sense but it is also a good summary of the PS5 rumors/highlight info all in a single bullet summary
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
I am sticking by my very scientifically proven theory.

February 14th 2020. 14 tf 2020 mhz.
Valentine's Day. PS V
f1MLUwT_d.jpg
 

pixelation

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,548
Since you snuck this in at the end of the last OT, figured i'd respond here. There are some reasons NOT to put weight into the Github leak

There are 3 reasons to question the implications of the leaked documents:

1. They are full of mistakes and inaccuracies
  • There are files in wrong folders, there are sub folders and wrong folders. Again, when people say these are legitimate, they mean that this is what is legitimately in the files, not that the files are correct or accurate all the time.
  • The biggest issue is that they claim Spakrman (Lockhart) is 56CUs. Every reason you have to believe Oberon is PS5, you have to believe that Sparkman is Lockhart. Sparkman BC mode indicates it can replicate a One S.
However confident you are that PS5 is 36 CUs, must must be equally confident that Lockhart is 56CUs. Or the other way around, how ever skeptical you are that these leaks confirm Lockhart is 56CUs, you must be equally skeptical these leaks confirm PS5 is 36CUs.

2. The leaks if taken at face value, fly in the face of every credible insider we have, including develeper sources and industry sources, that say the Series X and PS5 are very close in power.
  • We've had Jason Schreier News Editor of Kotaku, Andrew Reiner Executive Editor at Game Informer, Our own Mods, and Vetted industry insider and veteran Klee, and other insiders all say the consoles are close in power.
  • They specifically claim PS5 and Scarlett were close in power according to those sources. And All of that is in the same time window these leaks are from, which according to DF is the point where it's too late to make changes. None of them have come out and said the the tables have turned. The Github leaks are new to us, but they are actually older than the leaks we've gotten from insiders.
So, Actual insiders who actually know about the target specs of the PS5 and Xbox Series X (rather than drawing conclusions from indirect and uncontextualized data points) with a network of sources (instead of an interns notepad) are saying something to the contrary of what the leak indicates at face value.

3. The documents, if taken at face value, don't pass the sniff test, and an alternative makes more sense

  • The test were done without VRR and RT, when we know that at the very least PS5 has RT. This means that the tests we have access to are not the full PS5 in at least one way.
  • 36CUs at 2GHz, is not a reasonable way to hit 9.2TFs, if that's the target. Every bit of historical and contextual data we have for consoles points to a wide and slow approach to console APUs. Efficiencies, Thermals, Cooling Costs, and reliability have all proven to be reasons that trump a lower sized and faster APU. Why would Sony feel any different? What technology would change the equation? I'm not aware of any, so I don't expect that approach to change.
  • 36CUs would also make this the smallest APU Sony has made in a decade. In a world where Sony is dominating in terms of sales and profitability, where they've come out and aid that PS5 is going to be Niche product aimed at the hardcore who what the best and latest, where that is corroborated by their rumoured bleeding edge SSD tech, a small APU doesn't make sense.
  • Digital Foundry Stated in the article that many BC test are being done. If that's true, this could be a BC test right? Well, what would that look like. Presumably, they would want to test a Native PS4 mode, a PS4 Pro mode, and like the PS4 Pro had.... A PS4 Pro Boost mode. What would the Boost mode test look like?
  • A PS4 Pro Boost mode compatibility test would look like this: Exactly the same CUs as the PS4 Pro, An unlocked "full" clock, no RT or VRS hardware activated. What do we have in the leak? 36CUs (exactly the same as the PS4 Pro), 2Ghz, the rumoured full clock of the PS5, No RT and no VRS indicated.
The leaks makes little sense as the Full PS5 hardware, indicating you shouldn't take it as a certainty of the PS5s total performance, and a lot of sense that it's a boost mode PS4 Pro compatibility test so that possibility can't be dismissed.
This post should be getting more attention.
 

castaction

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,229
#think

What was the content of the GITHUB leak about for PS5 silicon?
BC regression testing

What does BC testing tell us about RT and other secret sauce on the chip?
Nothing, because hw RT was not a thing this gen as much as other new technologies may find their way into the new silicon. You don't test something you need no BC for in those tests

What does that all mean?
RT and other secret sauce were always part of those tested chips. Burry those unfinished silicon theories.

Will not respond to comments that referencing this here.

Have a good start into 2020! Cu there.
Cool cu there too brotha :)
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
#think

What was the content of the GITHUB leak about for PS5 silicon?
BC regression testing

What does BC testing tell us about RT and other secret sauce on the chip?
Nothing, because hw RT was not a thing this gen as much as other new technologies may find their way into the new silicon. You don't test something you need no BC for in those tests

What does that all mean?
RT and other secret sauce were always part of those tested chips. Burry those unfinished silicon theories.

Will not respond to comments that referencing this here.

Have a good start into 2020! Cu there.
there were native tests as well beyond the BC regression testing and it was likely too early at that date for fixed function VRS and RTRT hardware, as Komachi had yet to detect any in June. That's why I suggest it was not final silicon.

That being said, it is also true that the Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Happy New Year Colbert!
 

Deleted member 10747

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Your getting worked for nothing. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Your previous posts paint a narrative for the different demographics who outside of this forum will be buying these new consoles.
Last post.

Dude, just stop. I don't even know where to start anymore. Nothing i said is what you are arguing about. I'm not getting worked up about anything. You just keep creating situations in your head and thinking I'm the one saying that. You are the only one connecting MS and Sony.

This discussion isn't even about what i initially said and nothing you are saying is refuting anything that i said. You are just moving the discussion further and further away from my initial post. You need to go back and read my previous posts because right now I'm arguing with your imagination instead off what I actually said.

To be clear: My argument is not sales, MS, XSX, Lockhart or anything in comparison with MS. It's all about what Sony themselves said: niche, hardcore and a price point that will make sense when the specs are revealed.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
I am sticking by my very scientifically proven theory.

February 14th 2020. 14 tf 2020 mhz.
Valentine's Day. PS V

lol. All good fun but I hope that isn't the date as I would then start suspecting someone at Sony has it in for Media Molecule!

First there was the Wired article on April 16th when Dreams early access released and now you propose February 14th the date of Dreams full release.

Overshadowed twice by PS5 :(

this should have been the OT

Thanks! I don't think it would've been good enough for that honour, but maybe one day I will come up with one.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,797
lol. All good fun but I hope that isn't the date as I would then start suspecting someone at Sony has it in for Media Molecule!

First there was the Wired article on April 16th when Dreams early access released and now you propose February 14th the date of Dreams full release.

Overshadowed twice by PS5 :(

Unless they announce the PS5 port there ;)
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,003
Noob question - why is running a graphics processor at 2GHz considered risky when CPUs can easily run at this frequency?

Also people get a bit worried when maybe they shouldn't based on current parts. We've gone from 800-900mhz being the highest bleeding edge to 2.1ghz on the GPU side in less than a decade. Every step of the way you get some saying holy cow how can they run the next one at 1000mhz that can't be real, 1200, 1400mhz and so on, "how is that possible" as we get used to seeing certain clocks and users overclocking a small amount means way more power usage, heat, instability and silicon lottery. The thought of 2.1ghz would've had some heads explode a few years ago but you can buy that off the shelf now for the 5700 XT. It won't be a big deal soon on a new GPU line up. The limits are all relative.
 

OnPorpoise

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,300
I don't think that fact .
He just using a current AMD GPU at 40CU @2Ghz as what in the dev kit .
Which would be 4CU less then what people saying PS5 has.
Of course, it would be a real surprise if the retail version lacked CU redundancy.

My only point was he has gotten his hands on this type of information before.
 
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Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
Why the reaction?, is it because I said "past console war"? what better way to describe the current (and soon to be last) system gen battle?, I didn't use it in an inciendary manner so I don't get all of the "gasp!" reactions to my post. *shrugs*
Thinking Digital Foundry is, or was, biased into anything other than 60fps games is a really hot take (and extremely wrong, IMO).

And yes, I come from the old place as well, I also remember the conspiracy theories about DF there.
 

Flashy Wizard

Member
Nov 19, 2019
87
Florida
Long time lurker( really long!) first time poster! Beta Games is a placeholder for our studio, which btw just officially became Cesium Studios!! My team and I are super excited and really looking forward to next gen while being a part of ResetEra!! The community here is amazing and although things are a little bit crazy because of recent events, we feel there's no better place where passionate gamers can come together and express their love for our particular art form....video games!!! There's a few things left for our studio to do to become fully operational that will take time but afterwards we will go through the verification process with the administrators and moderators. Once that process is complete, we have a huge surprise for the ResetEra community!!
 

Brees2Thomas

Member
Dec 27, 2019
1,525
I'll just go on record saying I remain on team Kleegamefan - double digits 'till the end. I think my first (tales from my ass) prediction in March was 12 TF which has hit at least once so I plan to stick with that.
One question I wish Klee could come in here and answer right now: Did Sony screw up badly in their plans for the PS5, or will everything about their plan make sense and look brilliant when the final specs are revealed?
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
Long time lurker( really long!) first time poster! Beta Games is a placeholder for our studio, which btw just officially became Cesium Studios!! My team and I are super excited and really looking forward to next gen while being a part of ResetEra!! The community here is amazing and although things are a little bit crazy because of recent events, we feel there's no better place where passionate gamers can come together and express their love for our particular art form....video games!!! There's a few things left for our studio to do to become fully operational that will take time but afterwards we will go through the verification process with the administrators and moderators. Once that process is complete, we have a huge surprise for the ResetEra community!!
Welcome and best of luck with your studio
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,999
Long time lurker( really long!) first time poster! Beta Games is a placeholder for our studio, which btw just officially became Cesium Studios!! My team and I are super excited and really looking forward to next gen while being a part of ResetEra!! The community here is amazing and although things are a little bit crazy because of recent events, we feel there's no better place where passionate gamers can come together and express their love for our particular art form....video games!!! There's a few things left for our studio to do to become fully operational that will take time but afterwards we will go through the verification process with the administrators and moderators. Once that process is complete, we have a huge surprise for the ResetEra community!!
Welcome. And good luck. Because you just laid this out in the next gen thread.


I'll pray for you.
 

Ostinatto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,543
Long time lurker( really long!) first time poster! Beta Games is a placeholder for our studio, which btw just officially became Cesium Studios!! My team and I are super excited and really looking forward to next gen while being a part of ResetEra!! The community here is amazing and although things are a little bit crazy because of recent events, we feel there's no better place where passionate gamers can come together and express their love for our particular art form....video games!!! There's a few things left for our studio to do to become fully operational that will take time but afterwards we will go through the verification process with the administrators and moderators. Once that process is complete, we have a huge surprise for the ResetEra community!!

Leak something bro !!!

Welcome :D
 
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