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Deleted member 28523

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,911
Great video.

Also, since there's been a decent amount of criticism in this thread including by yours truly, I just wanted to say that I've been having a wonderful time with the game on my PS4 since the new patch. Doom is a game I played countless times over the years but I'm not sure if I ever actually finished it. I'm currently going through Inferno after playing through the first two episodes and plan on moving on to the added content after I'm done with the main episodes.

It's amazing how well this game continues to age. I think part of it has to do with the beautifully drawn sprites, which brings me to my question. Does anyone know if there are modern shooters out there that use sprites instead of 3D models? There is a metric ton of 2D games out there featuring awesome pixel art but I can't really think of anything emulating the Doom/Wolfenstein/etc aesthetic in a retro fashion.

In other words, something that would be to Doom what Shovel Knight was to the likes of Mega Man and DuckTales.


most of the enemies and textures are photos taken on real world models and objects. That's a big reason why it has such distinct style.

you're not going to find any shooters like it on ps4 but there's always a couple thousand doom wads to play on PC.
 

Riven

Member
Oct 27, 2017
430
It's amazing how well this game continues to age. I think part of it has to do with the beautifully drawn sprites, which brings me to my question. Does anyone know if there are modern shooters out there that use sprites instead of 3D models? There is a metric ton of 2D games out there featuring awesome pixel art but I can't really think of anything emulating the Doom/Wolfenstein/etc aesthetic in a retro fashion.
Ion Fury

 

Zor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,317
I played through the first four levels of No Rest For The Living today on PS4, for the very first time, and that expansion is fucking AWESOME. Can't wait to play the rest tonight. I'll then be doing Master Levels, Final Doom, and Sigil to top it all off.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I played through the first four levels of No Rest For The Living today on PS4, for the very first time, and that expansion is fucking AWESOME. Can't wait to play the rest tonight. I'll then be doing Master Levels, Final Doom, and Sigil to top it all off.

Not to tell you how to play but I'd play Sigil first because it's effectively a Doom continuation rather than one for Doom 2, hence it lacks the additions of 2 and feels more like a follow-up to the first game architecture-wise. Not to mention it's probably one of the best campaigns (official or otherwise) the game has ever received, one with some really creative level design choices and a fantastic soundtrack - it's truly great. Not only that, but Master Levels and the stuff in Final Doom can get pretty damn tough, whereas Sigil is mostly more grounded. So I'd personally play through all 4 episodes of Doom, then Sigil, then move on to Doom 2, its two expansions (No Rest For The Wicked and Master Levels), after which it's Final Doom time which is really the ultimate official challenge. Plutonia in particular goes crazy with the chaingunners and archviles and it borders unpleasantness at times.
 

Zor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,317
Not to tell you how to play but I'd play Sigil first because it's effectively a Doom continuation rather than one for Doom 2, hence it lacks the additions of 2 and feels more like a follow-up to the first game architecture-wise. Not to mention it's probably one of the best campaigns (official or otherwise) the game has ever received, one with some really creative level design choices and a fantastic soundtrack - it's truly great. Not only that, but Master Levels and the stuff in Final Doom can get pretty damn tough, whereas Sigil is mostly more grounded. So I'd personally play through all 4 episodes of Doom, then Sigil, then move on to Doom 2, its two expansions (No Rest For The Wicked and Master Levels), after which it's Final Doom time which is really the ultimate official challenge. Plutonia in particular goes crazy with the chaingunners and archviles and it borders unpleasantness at times.

Yeah, that's the best way to do it for sure. There was a part of me really intrigued to play a new Classic Doom campaign after all the others currently available though, as I know Romero made it as part of the 25th Anniversary. But good shout on the Doom/Doom II differences. Also, any excuse to replay Classic Doom to be honest!
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,570
I wonder how these games ever got through QA on Switch. Waking from Sleep Mode always crashes the game for me. How is something like this even released?
 

Zor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,317
I've uploaded a video filming my tv when playing Doom on Xbox One X, it shows some very noticable and constant stutter:

Feels like constant framepacing issues. Does anyone else experience this?

Yeah, that would annoy the hell out of me. That's definitely not a setting on your TV right, like motion smoothing or whatever? I'm playing through all these on PS4 Pro and I'm not seeing anything like this myself.
 

brobban

Member
Oct 28, 2017
132
Yeah, that would annoy the hell out of me. That's definitely not a setting on your TV right, like motion smoothing or whatever? I'm playing through all these on PS4 Pro and I'm not seeing anything like this myself.
Playing on an LG B6 Oled in Game mode, and haven't noticed it on other games. But I'll try out with different modes. Thx.

Why don't you upload the direct video to make sure it's not the tv?
I'll check it out. Disabled the capture setting a long time ago, guess I'll have to activate it again to rule out the TV.
 

Zor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,317
What are people's' thoughts on The Master Levels? I feel like I've heard a lot about other map packs and add ons but very little about The Master Levels.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Playing on an LG B6 Oled in Game mode, and haven't noticed it on other games. But I'll try out with different modes. Thx.


I'll check it out. Disabled the capture setting a long time ago, guess I'll have to activate it again to rule out the TV.

Yeah would be interesting, cause I think I saw some similar hickups on my switch version too, but I have to check this later again.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
woah thanks, that looks awesome and I am delighted to read that console ports are in the works.
There is also Project Warlock, Hedon, the upcoming Prodeus, and Blood had a really excellent remaster this year with Fresh Supply (though it came in a little a hot, but it is in quite good shape now). These are currently all only available on PC (I believe), though some do have controller support.

Prodeus is expected to receive console ports.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,643
I wonder how these games ever got through QA on Switch. Waking from Sleep Mode always crashes the game for me. How is something like this even released?
It's super frustrating for sure.

Also, DAMN Plutonia and the other one are hard as hell. Sigil was a cakewalk compared to those, even on the easiest difficulty. How come Sigil didn't add the Super Shotgun?
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,922
Chicago, IL
What are people's' thoughts on The Master Levels? I feel like I've heard a lot about other map packs and add ons but very little about The Master Levels.


I think they're...ok. I mean, it's more DOOM. I am personally not a fan of the style though, especially when it's confusing or forces you to use unintuitive tricks to find keys or exists. I also dislike the structure, forcing you to start with just the pistol every map. I'd have preferred if they set it up as a single episode like some console ports have done.

I intended to install this update and just play Sigil since it was new to me. Loved it so much I got hooked on DOOM again and have ran through all of it. Both the original, 2, and all the updates. God, I love DOOM. Probably gonna replay Sigil again to end cap this.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
Well I guess I understand but... boo, SSG rules
Sigil is really brutal on Ultra Violence. There is a large jump in difficulty between that and the previous difficulty. I'd recommend playing TNT before Plutonia just for the difficulty curve, though I think Plutonia is better (not that TNT is bad by any means, just Plutonia is pretty damn fantastic).
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,050
Sigil is really brutal on Ultra Violence. There is a large jump in difficulty between that and the previous difficulty. I'd recommend playing TNT before Plutonia just for the difficulty curve, though I think Plutonia is better (not that TNT is bad by any means, just Plutonia is pretty damn fantastic).

I've only finished the first level of Sigil on UV so far but the difficulty seemed spot on. Was wicked, looking forward to playing the rest.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
I've only finished the first level of Sigil on UV so far but the difficulty seemed spot on. Was wicked, looking forward to playing the rest.
I mean it's excellent on UV, but it is definitely pretty brutal. It can be quite clever. I absolutely love Sigil, and I've liked it more and more each time I play through it. I'd love to hear your thoughts when you're done.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
Yeah, I'm shocked this still hasn't been fixed.
I'm not. Sleep mode is the one thing you can't debug on the Switch, because activating sleep mode will of course disconnect any attached debugger.
So you have an issue that occurs seemingly at random that you can't have a debugger attached when it actually happens. It's litteraly the worst combination of circumstances to occur.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,570
I'm not. Sleep mode is the one thing you can't debug on the Switch, because activating sleep mode will of course disconnect any attached debugger.
So you have an issue that occurs seemingly at random that you can't have a debugger attached when it actually happens. It's litteraly the worst combination of circumstances to occur.
The Doom ports are literally the only games on Switch I ever had this problem. And it's been present since the first release.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
The Doom ports are literally the only games on Switch I ever had this problem. And it's been present since the first release.
You say that as if it makes it easy but it actually makes it even more complicated. That means there's very likely little-to-no knowledge base to go on, they have an unknown bug that they can't debug via normal means that occurs only in their runtime loop and they have no one else's brain they can pick.
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,706
These all sound great and well worth the $5.

Did they improve the co-op at all? Seems like you still can't quick save in split screen, and for some reason, both players are given these tiny screens in co-op.

I remember the 360 version having a larger chunk of the screen for both players in split screen.
 

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
990
New Zealand
Did they improve the co-op at all? Seems like you still can't quick save in split screen, and for some reason, both players are given these tiny screens in co-op.
While Doom did support saving in network games (which splitscreen is, it just spins up multiple instances of the Doom object class to run multiple sessions for each screen), it only supports it in a very weird way that doesn't allow saves to be efficiently loaded as the whole game needs to be relaunched to load the save, and each player must have a valid copy of that save. Trying to support that in splitscreen, least of all with quicksaves, would be chaos.
 

J_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,706
While Doom did support saving in network games (which splitscreen is, it just spins up multiple instances of the Doom object class to run multiple sessions for each screen), it only supports it in a very weird way that doesn't allow saves to be efficiently loaded as the whole game needs to be relaunched to load the save, and each player must have a valid copy of that save. Trying to support that in splitscreen, least of all with quicksaves, would be chaos.
Ahhh I see. Thank you for the info!

I can always use the 360 versions for co-op, and these new updates for SP
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,570
You say that as if it makes it easy but it actually makes it even more complicated. That means there's very likely little-to-no knowledge base to go on, they have an unknown bug that they can't debug via normal means that occurs only in their runtime loop and they have no one else's brain they can pick.
Maybe. But it is a bummer nonetheless. At least on Switch it keeps me from getting back. I am just too used to play a bit during commutes, put it in sleep, and continue on my lunch break etc. Doom would be that perfect in between action retro fest, but due to this crash I'd rather play something else. (which reminds me that I have to finish Turok as well haha)
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,049
Sigil is really brutal on Ultra Violence. There is a large jump in difficulty between that and the previous difficulty. I'd recommend playing TNT before Plutonia just for the difficulty curve, though I think Plutonia is better (not that TNT is bad by any means, just Plutonia is pretty damn fantastic).

I beat Sigil on UV last year. Fuck Plutonia.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
I beat Sigil on UV last year. Fuck Plutonia.
Plutonia is very good and definitely worth a play. The last time I played through it was on the PS3 Doom Classic Complete release and found HMP to be really enjoyable on console. I wouldn't want to attempt UV Plutonia on a controller (not that I think playing on a controller is a bad way to play Doom, i'd just have some slight limits when I do). If you were put off by the difficulty, try dropping it until you find something you're comfortable with. If you can find a rhythm for the first few maps, you'll be good to go. There is really only one map in the whole lot that I dislike, and it might be my favourite officially released level set.
 
Oct 29, 2017
598
I would really like to see Quake get a similar treatment as Doom has in the past year, but that same argument can be held up as a reason as to why that might not happen straight away.
I know Doom is the bigger classic, but its strange how we havent gotten a rerelease of Quake on consoles, like we had Doom I and Ii. I would really like to replay Quake and Quake II on console.
 

alundra311

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,231
DF mentioned that on Switch if you turn it on sleep-mode and return to the game, stutters will show up. A way to remove the stutter is to restart the game.
Stutter still happens for me even if I don't put it on sleep mode. Also, I just close the game instead of putting it on sleep mode because I've encountered issues like the main menu showing up which can't be closed or the game freezing after putting it on sleep.

I'll try to see if I can record it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,345
Is Brutal Doom out of the question to be added as a add on to Classic Doom now? I never played it, but it seems like it would be a great addition to these games. Or is it more than just a WAD?