Murder can absolutely be uncomfortable and embarrassing. I hate watching footage of TLoU2 for example and would tbh prefer less murder games in general even if there are some I like. Moreover I think the difference is that by and large the murder in games is fictional, often stylistically presented, and not usually directed at any specific creed or ethnic group. I think if other trailers yesterday focused on, say, murdering partivular minorities and put that front and center I would have been equally repulsed and embarrassed (case in point, some of the backlash towards Resident Evil 5).
In the case of sexualization it's because while these depictions are fictional, fiction has a subconscious and understated impact in how we regard reality around us. In contrast to murder (in most of the world), it's much easier to be a sexist than it is to commit homicide. And sexualized/objectified character designs are almost always female, and when taken in a broader cultural context of sexual harassment and assault, especially in the video game industry, just feel extremely tone-deaf and icky in 2021.
Only if the clothes are skin tight like those plug suits from evangelion. And have the jiggle physics from dead or alive. Otherwise you're a sexist prude who relishes in ultra violence.I would be cautiously interested in this game based on the gameplay, but the character design is such obvious nerd-bait that I'm skipping it on principle alone.
Can we please let our female leads wear clothes? Just some real pants, for once. Please.
bingo. Though I do believe who you responding to already understands but is just playing the devils advocate to be a troll.Murder can absolutely be uncomfortable and embarrassing. I hate watching footage of TLoU2 for example and would tbh prefer less murder games in general even if there are some I like. Moreover I think the difference is that by and large the murder in games is fictional, often stylistically presented, and not usually directed at any specific creed or ethnic group. I think if other trailers yesterday focused on, say, murdering partivular minorities and put that front and center I would have been equally repulsed and embarrassed (case in point, some of the backlash towards Resident Evil 5).
In the case of sexualization it's because while these depictions are fictional, fiction has a subconscious and understated impact in how we regard reality around us. In contrast to murder (in most of the world), it's much easier to be a sexist than it is to commit homicide. And sexualized/objectified character designs are almost always female, and when taken in a broader cultural context of sexual harassment and assault, especially in the video game industry, just feel extremely tone-deaf and icky in 2021.
... A sexualized depiction of a character is somehow equivalent to someone comparing black people to monkies?..... sigh I guess I'm going to give you an example of how you can dehumanize people through fictional game characters.
NOTE: PLEASE KNOW IM DOING THIS OUTRAGEOUS EXAMPLE TO SET A FUCKING POINT.
Imagine I have a game with a zoo, and we get to monkeys and gorillas/etc and put black people in the cages and have nothing said about it.
"BUT BUT ITS A FICTIONAL GAME, THEYRE NOT REAL!!!!!". Shut the fuck up and know that implications effect real world people and are fucking bad in general.
Do you not see how damaging sexualization of women can be at a society level?To each their own, I guess, as I get older I find myself becoming less and less comfortable with grisley depiction of realistically rendered humans being murdered for the sake of fun gameplay, and I gravitate more towards less realistic violence in games (such as side scrollers or games based on ridiculous action vs. monsters or zombies).
We all look out our own windows. I used this point before, but I'm an illustrator and I know a lot of illustrators/cosplayers who frequently find it fun to either design or dress up as sexualized characters -- some of these people female, (meanwhile the overwhelming majority of people in this thread dictating what is okay for a female character design to be like are male) so I guess from my perspective I view all of this as kind of normal and victimless. I agree the Eden character is a cringy design, but I'm not willing to take it to the dramatic extremes that some in the thread are when complaining about it.
I'm making the point that just because it's fictional means jack shit. I had to use extreme racism to go against the "It's just a video game" to prove the point that a game could dehunanize someone playing the game.I was planning on staying away from the shitshow this thread has devolved into, but...
... A sexualized depiction of a character is equivalent to someone comparing black people to monkies?
bingo. Though I do believe who you responding to already understands but is just playing the devils advocate to be a troll.
"Had to"? I have no idea why whenever people want to make their extreme points around here, they see to having black people be their go-to in their examples.I'm making the point that just because it's fictional means jack shit. I had to use extreme racism to go against the "It's just a video game" to prove a fucking point.
What's wrong with it other than it being a ripoff of bayonetta?
Because some people are too stupid to understand anything else and might be able to grasp a comparison to racism. I don't see why you're too stuck up on this point. The object was to show dehumanization in games can have an effect.I have no idea why whenever people want to make their extreme points around here, they see to having black people be their go-to in their examples.
Looks like she has more clothing now than in the reveal. But barely more.Project Eve was actually announced years ago :P https://www.rpgsite.net/news/8399-korean-action-rpg-project-eve-announced
I think people just tend to forget this.
You really don't see why someone might take issue with your example on a personal level, or your choice to be dismissive of it as being "stuck up" on it?Because some people are too stupid to understand anything else and might be able to grasp racism. I don't see why you're too stuck up on this point.
🙄The trailer was a bit gratuitous, butt I'm gonna wait until I play the finished product and give it some ample thought before slapping it with my stamp of disapproval. Who knows, she could end up being a well-rounded character.
Or maybe the developers really are just behind the curve.
I mean, we have tons of threads about sexual assault/harassment on this very forum, on the front page. How sexual images change how we perceive the opposite sex. If you talk to anyone in person about experiences with sexual assault and sexual harassment in your community or neighborhood I bet you can get tons of information about how people feel emboldened to degrade women based on their experiences. Talk to your cosplayers about their experience with creeps in the community fam.Except that I'm not? I think you've spent too much time in an echo chamber and should talk to more people.
We all look out our own windows. I used this point before, but I'm an illustrator and I know a lot of illustrators/cosplayers who frequently find it fun to either design or dress up as sexualized characters -- some of these people female, so I guess from my perspective I view all of this as kind of normal and victimless. I agree the Eden character is a cringy design, but I'm not willing to take it to the dramatic extremes that some in the thread are when complaining about it.
I was directly talking to another person and used a note saying it was a fucking outrageous example. That person I was talking to didn't see how fictional game characters affected real people. I used a stupid outrageously racist thing to prove that yes you can dehumanize someone in a fictional setting.You really don't see why someone might take issue with your example on a personal level, or your choice to be dismissive of it?
This character is just one of them and you can agree that there's no necessity for this character to be as sexualised as she is now, right? Whether that's only in design but also framing, via camera/jiggle etc.
holy shit keep hitting all those bingo spaces
get fucked idiot
keep dismissing shit because you wanna jerk off to this game
Everything needs to be mom approved, or it's shameful apparently.
We all look out our own windows. I used this point before, but I'm an illustrator and I know a lot of illustrators/cosplayers who frequently find it fun to either design or dress up as sexualized characters -- some of these people female, (meanwhile the overwhelming majority of people in this thread dictating what is okay for a female character design to be like are male) so I guess from my perspective I view all of this as kind of normal and victimless. I agree the Eden character is a cringy design, but I'm not willing to take it to the dramatic extremes that some in the thread are when complaining about it.
I think that's what gets me. At least Bayonetta has a fun gimmick and the character's personality is great. 2B design is sexualized but I see the appeal and even like it myself. This just feels like a mixture of both but the result is really generic.Oversexualization aside(why does it have to be so boringly sexy).
I'm really happy about all these ambitious east asian games releasing right now.
FWIW I think there is a big difference in agency between a cosplayer wanting to dress up in a skimpy outfit and a fictional character designed to pander to a particular target demographic. The latter has no agency beyond what the designer grants her or allows her to do -- because her appearance isn't something she can control, while the former at some level is acting of their own accord. Which isn't to say that the latter can't also be objectifying, but the video game character is quite literally an object, which I think is maybe why people react more extremely to the depiction rather than what cosplayers etc. do with it.
Also I don't think people are saying what a female character design can and cannot be, just expressing their disappointment with what it is currently. For myself, personally, its much more about the spotlight sony has shone on this in light of recent events (e.g. at Actiblizz and otherwise). These kinds of games featuring these sorts of designs will always exist and I don't think there should be legislation or anything against them existing (if only because of all the slippery slopes you would end up introducing), but I think the criticism and response is important to both help keep the broader issues in mind as well as hopefully create things with broader and less problematic appeals in the future.
FWIW I think there is a big difference in agency between a cosplayer wanting to dress up in a skimpy outfit and a fictional character designed to pander to a particular target demographic. The latter has no agency beyond what the designer grants her or allows her to do -- because her appearance isn't something she can control, while the former at some level is acting of their own accord. Which isn't to say that the latter can't also be objectifying, but the video game character is quite literally an object, which I think is maybe why people react more extremely to the depiction rather than what cosplayers etc. do with it.
Incredible!The trailer was a bit gratuitous, butt I'm gonna wait until I play the finished product and give it some ample thought before slapping it with my stamp of disapproval. Who knows, she could end up being a well-rounded character.
Or maybe the developers really are just behind the curve.
I would be cautiously interested in this game based on the gameplay, but the character design is such obvious nerd-bait that I'm skipping it on principle alone.
Can we please let our female leads wear clothes? Just some real pants, for once. Please.
can't imagine it with what they have shown so far. the dichotomy between this and the Forspoken thread is something else.If the character has even tenth of the charisma bayonetta has that would be fine, but how it played straight is just ... lol.
wait wow wow wow hold up. Yoko Taro?Looks great.
I really though it was a new bayonetta the first seconds lol
I will follow Yoko Taros command.
I agree, I would prefer the camera were less lecherous and the design less cringy. That's not how I do things in my game. However, I do at times find sexy character designs fun (either gender, anyone) so I'm not automatically offended by this in theory. I just find this a bit too much for my own tastes as it prevents me from taking the rest of the game seriously (not sure if it's asking to be taken seriously, I guess..).
wait wow wow wow hold up. Yoko Taro?
In any case, I agree that the male gaziness of game camera and the character design are a disservice to the otherwise awesome art direction. Main character looks like a random NPC from a Korean MMO or something. So vanilla.
I guess my point was that there are a variety of people who enjoy this type of thing, and especially in the art/concept art world it's very common for female artists to also enjoy drawing and designing very sexualized female designs. A lot of the criticisms I see are overly reductive. In any case, I see it as a taste thing. If it's not for you, it's not for you, and leave it at that.
Overtly sexualised and specifically designed for the male gaze, for one. Generic, boring and devoid of any real personality for two.
I want to read more about how fictional characters have no agency and how the character should wear real pants from superhero fans with a skin-tight full body suit wearing character as their avatar, I haven't had enough yet.