"Proficient at Excel [or some other software/skill]" Why do people lie about these things on applications where said skill is a prerequisite?

[brainchild]

Seriously, I don't understand it.

If a job requires one to possess a certain skill that one doesn't actually possess, you'd think that putting the prerequisite on the application would be enough of a deterrent to applying for such a job. In reality, I can't tell you how many times I've seen new hires get fired for their complete incompetence, especially with regard to their poor performance when using Excel. Do they not think that the employer will learn of their inevitable incompetence? Do they just not expect any serious consequences for performing poorly?

I was recently chatting with one of my colleagues who works in recruiting and they mentioned how crazy it is that so many people fail basic Excel tests even though they have "advanced Excel skills" or something similar on their resume. Apparently being able to open an .xlsx file or input data into a spreadsheet counts as "advanced Excel usage". It honestly baffles me. I suppose it's probably just desperation on their part (or maybe most people somehow overestimate their Excel abilities), I dunno, but I'm surprised by how common it is.

Have you all experienced something like this among your co-workers at your place of work?

EDIT:

Y'all, I understand the ridiculously and unnecessarily growing lists of job duties for job postings these days, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Excel, for example, is a very common back office requirement and its usage is quite common in office settings. Anyone applying to such positions should understand how important such a prerequisite is to the job. I'm not talking about random, esoteric job duties. If you know you probably don't have the skills to actually do the job, I'm not sure why you'd be concerned about the algorithm filtering you out. A business that requires heavy Excel usage (and that's typically stressed these days anyway) is going to suffer if a new hire doesn't actually possess the skills to use the software well.

And with the jobs to which I'm referring, on-the-job Excel training is not sufficient if advanced formulas are necessary. Especially for something like a data analyst job. Excel is very powerful (even if a bit outdated at this point), and it's not something you can fake when it's being used for something other than data entry.

Click to shrink...

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Most people don't read before they post

 

[jotun?]

Because nobody ever really meets ALL of the crap listed on a job skills list, but you have to put them there if you don't want to get rejected by an algorithm

 

[Zip]

Most people are pretty shit with software/technology. If it's a problem the job description may want to be more specific in regards to what Excel skills/knowledge are required. If it's unclear then 'advanced' is relative.

Also as said above, with all the shitty algorithms nowadays people don't want to get tossed out because they didn't check off a box.

 

[Squarehard]

Some people feel confident enough they can learn the rest on the fly.

Obviously it rarely works out that way, but it's a resume, people are going to do whatever they can to get the job first, then figure it out afterwards once they're already hired, or do some heavy learning after they hired but before going in.

 

[sanstesy]

Two years french in school.

"Fluent in French."

 

[Seesaw15]

Cause if they get the job they can just learn that shit in a weekend.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Because no one meets all of the criteria listed when applying and it's difficult to get a good paying job.

 

[Deleted member 24907]

Recruiters/HR did this to themselves. Have insane requirements in every post and filter everyone out as "must haves" and you have people lying in no-time.

 

[Nooblet]

For me when it comes to things like Excel which are basically secondary and tertiary skill I just say I can do it even if I can't as long as I am atleast somewhat familiar with it. And when on the job I just learn from YouTube as I pick things up quick. I haven't used Excel to do formulas and stuff since I was 12 and learning MS Office, and in my current job I don't really have to use Excel outside of making tables, doing pivots and VLookup, but should I be required to do any sort of "advanced SQL", I'll just learn it over the weekend and the practice on the job.

Infact my current job requires me to primary deal with T-SQL, IIS and Web Services. I knew nothing about the later two and only the most basic university level SQL (never knew about T-SQL). The only reason I even got this job is because I knew the people working here, because no one else was hiring me despite having a master's in Computer Science from a top university, and 2 years of experience doing research. And so, I picked it all up during the probation period and now I'm one of the key people in the team. I overtook people, in knowledge and skills, who had been working in the company far longer than me.

The reason I do this is because I know I can do the job, if given the chance, but if I was completely honest about myself then no one would have even interviewed me and I wouldn't have the job I have right now.

The way I see it, it's all about knowing your own capabilities and learning ability. And that's what's important rather than gatekeep a permanent that will potentially last several years, due to a requirement that someone can learn in the first few days or weeks at the job.


And as you know in software industry you have to learn the system from scratch at every new job anyway due to bespoke proprietary software being involved and the knowledge of the system is where the biggest hurdle and learning lies, and that's not something anyone can have any prior experience with anyway.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Applying for software jobs has taught me that the job listings include tons of shit that aren't actually required for the job. It's expected for applicants to exaggerate their experience.

 

[Autumn]

I'm proficient in MSFT Office, but only know how to use Word to write an essay. Lol

 

[Hexa]

The prerequisites listed are usually inflated most of the time so there's a high chance that even if you're missing a listed prerequisite you'll be fine.

 

[bangai-o]

Lol, why would you reveal that you are good at excel? It just means more work for you.

 

[Cenauru]

Insane requirements lists and algorithms. They've taught people to lie and stretch the truth just to get a low-paying job.

 

[molnizzle]

How many of these new hires do you know that were actually fired for it?

That's why.

Most "requirements" are bullshit anyway. I'm working a job right now that required 5 years of industry experience and a whole bunch of knowledge about SAP and other tools I had never used. Got the job anyway. Been here over a year and am now a top performer.

Get yourself in the door and figure out the rest later.

 

[Verelios]

I've never met someone with advanced Excel skills and can't tell you what that is beyond knowing how to run tests, make graphs, use equations. And that sounds like basic Excel skills. It's on everyone's resume though because people want to get the job, get paid, and not worry about tomorrow.

 

[Dyle]

No one knows what that actually means so as long as you've set up a formula once or you know how to freeze the top row you may as well be good to go

 

[xxracerxx]

This just makes me think of how much I hate Excel and Powerpoint so, so much. Just terrible.

 

[Cruxist]

Because job listings list every single thing you could possibly need to do in a job, even if using a spreadsheet is like 1% of your duties.

Job applicants have no idea which skill listed is actually relevant. It's frustrating for both sides.

 

[Crayolan]

The Excel use needed for 90% of jobs isn't something you need years of experience with, it's something you can be taught in a few days. People put it on their resume and then start teaching themselves/brushing up on the basics after they land the job. I did this same thing for a previous job and it worked out fine for me.

 

[Heliex]

Two years french in school.

"Fluent in French."

Click to shrink...

I was one year in French school and I am highly fluent in French. Sure I have a strong accent, but I can speak and understand it perfectly. Don't judge books by covers ;)

 

[brawndolicious]

Most people are pretty shit with software/technology. If it's a problem the job description may want to be more specific in regards to what Excel skills/knowledge are required. If it's unclear then 'advanced' is relative.

Also as said above, with all the shitty algorithms nowadays people don't want to get tossed out because they didn't check off a box.

Click to shrink...

Yeah this needs to be made clear with something that everyone uses to some level Excel. Do you have to know how to do pivot tables and mail-merges? Nested if/else conditions and concatenate? Transforming datatypes? All the different graphing shit?

I think anyone could learn all that in a few weeks of an Excel class but it sucks when somebody walks into a job and I show them the different Excel sheets for managing some process and they ask what a pivot table is despite having said that they are Excel wizards.

 

[Cream Stout]

seems more like an issue with the recruitment process than the folks applying if it keeps happening

 

[El Bombastico]

Because in the 3 or so jobs I had where proficiency in Excel was a prerequisite I never once actually used Excel in the time I worked there.

 

[Royalan]

I think it's a backlash to the insane requirements most employers place on basic positions these days.

We live in a generation where a vast majority of positions in the modern workforce require college degrees when their equivalents just a decade or so ago required only a high school diploma. And t's not because the jobs have gotten more difficult. If anything, thanks to modern technology, they've gotten easier.

A lot of these jobs just aren't difficult enough to forgo on-the-job training, and I would include Excel in that. I know a lot of people who have lied on their resumes and gone on to be quite successful in their fields.

 

[nsilvias]

because getting a job is hard enough already. you gotta bullshit a bit to get your foot in the door and hopefully figure it out as you go.

 

[Alucrid]

when i would do vba stuff half the time was looking up how to do it and then the other half actually implementing it.

 

[Parthenios]

People don't know what they don't know. Most degrees will have students messing around in Excel at some point, summing columns or whatever. Writing that formula is going to make a lot of people feel like a HACKER and they don't know that Excel is rocket science basically.

 

[mute]

You can teach someone excel in an hour or two, you just don't want to.

 

[Cream Stout]

why be proficient in what the boss can't do. why do he get to bypass it

 

[FooF]

because "advanced excel" usually comes down to being able to use a formula and adding a graph which you can teach yourself in an hour

 

[HStallion]

Knowing what most jobs actually require of you in terms of Excel its pretty easy to say you're proficient and get away with it. Unless its some kind of data heavy job where you're doing huge ass spreadsheets most jobs just expect you to be competent at putting numbers in boxes or maybe being able to write a basic formula (which you can google how to do in 5 minutes or just copy and paste from a working spreadsheet someone else made).

 

[williamthegoat]

If you can do some nested if/and statements people think you're gods gift to excel so it's easy to think you're amazing when you're only "okay."

 

[Deleted member 20892]

They need the job

 

[brainchild]

Y'all, I understand the ridiculously and unnecessarily growing lists of job duties for job postings these days, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Excel, for example, is a very common back office requirement and its usage is quite common in office settings. Anyone applying to such positions should understand how important such a prerequisite is to the job. I'm not talking about random, esoteric job duties. If you know you probably don't have the skills to actually do the job, I'm not sure why you'd be concerned about the algorithm filtering you out. A business that requires heavy Excel usage (and that's typically stressed these days anyway) is going to suffer if a new hire doesn't actually possess the skills to use the software well.

And with the jobs to which I'm referring, on-the-job Excel training is not sufficient if advanced formulas are necessary. Especially for something like a data analyst job. Excel is very powerful (even if a bit outdated at this point), and it's not something you can fake when it's being used for something other than data entry.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Proficient in excel is such a broad thing I can see how someone might think they are when they're just a more advanced user. Excel is extremely powerful and I think without specific bulleted call outs it can be quite hard to know what specifically proficient is for it.

 

[dots]

See this thread

WSJ: Companies cannot find employees because they use stupid filtering criteria for their automated resume scanning systems

https://www.wsj.com/articles/companies-need-more-workers-why-do-they-reject-millions-of-resumes-11630728008?mod=hp_lead_pos7 I have just the solution for this crisis: Companies should add "computer programming" to the qualifications to scan for when looking for HR hires.

www.resetera.com

Basically if you don't game the application process in some way you will never get a job.

 

[Kalentan]

I think it's a backlash to the insane requirements most employers place on basic positions these days.

Click to shrink...

This job requires 5 years of experience using Software X*.

*Note Software X released 3 months ago.

 

[Duck Sauce]

Man I feel bad I don't know how to use vlookup.

 

[BarryFishFinger]

I lied and said I knew Autocad in 2005 for a job that required it. I figured if I got an interview I would just grab a demo and figure the basics enough to bullshit the interview and then if I got the job I could delve a bit deeper into learning it. Turned out I was correct and it all worked out.

 

[GameDev]

Apparently being able to open an .xlsx file or input data into a spreadsheet counts as "advanced Excel usage". It honestly baffles me. I suppose it's probably just desperation on their part (or maybe most people somehow overestimate their Excel abilities), I dunno, but I'm surprised by how common it is.

Have you all experienced something like this among your co-workers at your place of work?

Click to shrink...

It's easy to overestimate your abilities if you do not know how deep the rabbit hole goes. To many people excel is just a program in which you punch in some data, punch in an equation, and then drag it down to run the equation across the data. The fanciest thing they know it can do is create a few charts.

One of my hobbies is giving students mock interviews for gamedev positions. I usually ask them them to rate their C++ skills on a scale of 1 to 10 and I get a lot of 9 or 10s. I'll then ask them a basic question about vtables (something a 6 should know) and they'll just look at me slack jawed. To me a 10 is someone who can write an optimized C++ compiler. To them a 10 is someone who got an A in their intro to C++ course.

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

A lot of people are pretty terrible at using basic productivity software, Excel especially, so it's easy to fake. Most people don't use formulas in Excel and can't even do a basic mail merge in Word.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Y'all, I understand the ridiculously and unnecessarily growing lists of job duties for job postings these days, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Excel, for example, is a very common back office requirement and its usage is quite common in office settings. Anyone applying to such positions should understand how important such a prerequisite is to the job. I'm not talking about random, esoteric job duties. If you know you probably don't have the skills to actually do the job, I'm not sure why you'd be concerned about the algorithm filtering you out. A business that requires heavy Excel usage (and that's typically stressed these days anyway) is going to suffer if a new hire doesn't actually possess the skills to use the software well.

And with the jobs to which I'm referring, on-the-job Excel training is not sufficient if advanced formulas are necessary. Especially for something like a data analyst job. Excel is very powerful (even if a bit outdated at this point), and it's not something you can fake when it's being used for something other than data entry.

Click to shrink...

Most jobs that "require" experts in Excel just need them to write IF formulas and pivot tables.

 

[Dyle]

Y'all, I understand the ridiculously and unnecessarily growing lists of job duties for job postings these days, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Excel, for example, is a very common back office requirement and its usage is quite common in office settings. Anyone applying to such positions should understand how important such a prerequisite is to the job. I'm not talking about random, esoteric job duties. If you know you probably don't have the skills to actually do the job, I'm not sure why you'd be concerned about the algorithm filtering you out. A business that requires heavy Excel usage (and that's typically stressed these days anyway) is going to suffer if a new hire doesn't actually possess the skills to use the software well.

And with the jobs to which I'm referring, on-the-job Excel training is not sufficient if advanced formulas are necessary. Especially for something like a data analyst job. Excel is very powerful (even if a bit outdated at this point), and it's not something you can fake when it's being used for something other than data entry.

Click to shrink...

If you want people who actually know their stuff you need to list specific examples. No one with any significant interest in applying heeds generalized proficiency requirements, ever

 

[The Albatross]

I dunno about excel but you should absolutely lie about your proficiencies on a resume because at least in tech most cold applications are run thru a scoring algorithm and the highest results get preferred treatment by human screeners. It's not right but it's a thing at most major tech companies and I bet elsewhere.

 

[brainchild]

because "advanced excel" usually comes down to being able to use a formula and adding a graph which you can teach yourself in an hour

Click to shrink...

At the rate computer literacy and science literacy is going right now, this is absolutely not true. Most people are not this resourceful and motivated. I can expect your approach to work for people on this forum, but that just isn't the case for the average person who can barely operate a computer.

 

[HStallion]

\

Y'all, I understand the ridiculously and unnecessarily growing lists of job duties for job postings these days, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Excel, for example, is a very common back office requirement and its usage is quite common in office settings. Anyone applying to such positions should understand how important such a prerequisite is to the job. I'm not talking about random, esoteric job duties. If you know you probably don't have the skills to actually do the job, I'm not sure why you'd be concerned about the algorithm filtering you out. A business that requires heavy Excel usage (and that's typically stressed these days anyway) is going to suffer if a new hire doesn't actually possess the skills to use the software well.

And with the jobs to which I'm referring, on-the-job Excel training is not sufficient if advanced formulas are necessary. Especially for something like a data analyst job. Excel is very powerful (even if a bit outdated at this point), and it's not something you can fake when it's being used for something other than data entry.

Click to shrink...

I find most jobs that ask for stuff like proficiency in programs like Excel just want to make sure you can actually type on a keyboard. If you're not in something that actually requires heavy advanced excel usage i.e. most jobs, you can coast pretty easily using google and youtube to figure out most things on the fly. If you're totally incompetent that's a different story but a lot jobs really aren't expecting much when it comes to Excel even if they make a big deal about using the MS Suite or what not.

 

[digit_zero]

It's far more realistic to get your foot in the door and learn the few skills out of the full list of "requirements" on the spot than it is to become an expert on everything and then not use 90% of it.

If something like excel is the critical role of the job and they got past the interviews without you (the company) figuring out they aren't capable of doing jack in excel… your interview process is fucking garbage

 

[SageShinigami]

Seriously, I don't understand it.

If a job requires one to possess a certain skill that one doesn't actually possess, you'd think that putting the prerequisite on the application would be enough of a deterrent to applying for such a job. In reality, I can't tell you how many times I've seen new hires get fired for their complete incompetence, especially with regard to their poor performance when using Excel. Do they not think that the employer will learn of their inevitable incompetence? Do they just not expect any serious consequences for performing poorly?

I was recently chatting with one of my colleagues who works in recruiting and they mentioned how crazy it is that so many people fail basic Excel tests even though they have "advanced Excel skills" or something similar on their resume. Apparently being able to open an .xlsx file or input data into a spreadsheet counts as "advanced Excel usage". It honestly baffles me. I suppose it's probably just desperation on their part (or maybe most people somehow overestimate their Excel abilities), I dunno, but I'm surprised by how common it is.

Have you all experienced something like this among your co-workers at your place of work?

EDIT:

Click to shrink...

You're going to get a thread backfire on this one. If job requirements posted only the things the job would actually require, you'd be fine. But that's not the case, so stuff like this is going to happen.