Pro wrestling fans: Do you care more about in ring clinics and matches or characters and storylines?

[deathsaber]

Both. AEW I feel is leaning too much into just wrestling matches, its promos and stories are really lacking (crowds being gone from the product doesn't help either) and its hindering it for me. Kinda bored of the show now.

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Yeah, IMO NOTHING has been more damaging to pro-wrestling as an institution as not having crowds during the pandemic.

Not saying it isn't the right thing to do- it had to be done- but quite frankly a have complete apathy to the product right now.

The fun comes from the crowd interaction and reactions, the cheers and the boos. Wrestlers firing them up, or getting their hate.

Its weird, because all we have essentially gotten for a year is the product WWE/NXT/AWE WANTS to portray, which isn't always so hot. I find myself wondering- would Drew Mcintyre get good pops as a champion (I think he would, but we don't really know, his entire championship run has been during the pandemic).

Would Roman be getting good heat or Xpac heat?

On the flip end- bad segments (theres been a ton) would be met with silence or ridicule. Right now, whatever they do, there is pretty much no feedback- its just bad television unchecked. The only metric out there are the ratings, which again, have mostly sucked, but again- Pandemic (which always gives a layer of excuse to fall back on).

But yeah, can't wait for the crowds to come back, which will bring "real" wrestling back in my eyes, because IMO its been mostly putrid for a year now (no matter if we are talking wwe, nxt, or aew).

 

[Kurtikeya]

If it's the main event, ideally both. Otherwise, it's the characters, so long as it's still about the pursuit of glory and proving you're the best. For example, I can't stand the Fiend stuff even it's the most character-intensive stuff in the WWE right now. The Tian Sha stuff in NXT I like though, because at its core it's still about a dishonored warrior trying to gain favor back by proving her viciousness.

 

[sibarraz]

The WWE matches in the attitude era were as basic as they could get but some of there are probably more memorable than any wrestling promotion today becuase they actually have spots and storylines that one still remember for better or worse

Like Survivor Series 98 has probably zero matches yet the entire PPV is amazing because they told an interesting story that night.

Even the idea that today wrestlers are more "technical" than ever dlnt really mean that much to me since I feel that modern wrestlers portrays themselves too much as performers rather than fighters and matches as performances more combats, sometimes I watch some random matches from the 80s or 90s from both America and Japan and although those bouts are not memorable I still enjoy them vecause there is still a sense of watching a fight thanks to the way that wrestling matches were structured and paced back then.

Wrestlers today are definitely more atlethic than the older ones, but I dont believe that they are more technical

 

[fixurheartordie]

I can appreciate a fire match but if you want me invested in the long term I need reasons. I don't think I can pick between the two.

 

[Lothar]

Storylines. Match quality only matters if it's attached to a good storyline.

 

[DarkJ]

Hot superstars and story lines can eliminate the quality if the match. Hogan v Andre wasn't a good match. But the story propelled it into the stratosphere. No one care if stone cold was doing a clinic, they were happy stone cold was kicking people.

Clinics with no story are decent but without any story they are a bit boring with nothing pushing it. Like Cesaro vs Sheamus best of series. Not bad matches. But there was no reason for what they were doing. So why would I care?

Its the same in all sports. The story of Tom Brady getting another ring is bigger than if he did well during the game.

 

[Fatmanp]

Very rarely do you have a five star match without fan investment which only comes from storytelling and character. Punk v Cena at Mitb 2011 was graded as five stars. It was a great match but take the story element away and it's a 4 star match at best.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I want work rate every day of the week and twice on Sundays. If I want story, I'll watch a movie / series or read a book.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

True but I need it to be physical. It being a work is irrelevant to me. I watch boxing and used to be big into k-1 and pride fc. I need see pro wrestlers actually try and make it look like a contest and not a rehearsed act.

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Yeah I think that's it for me. It's hard for me to care about 'the matches' because when I watch a 2+ hour, I'm already drained from having to suspend my disbelief for suicide dives and shit that's obviously a work. Cesaro's swing for example- I understand why it gets a pop, but the fact he needs to safely put his opponent down rather than just let go really takes me out of it. Gimme Goldust's smooth as hell powerslam any day.

So yeah for me story and characters are probably more important, but if you get in ring action that feels like a fight fits those characters, then that's just as critical. It's all symbiotic of eachother. But I do love a good gimmick, and gimmick match.

 

[Mana Latte]

Has to be a mix of everything. We need great characters with personality and work rate with proper storyline build up. I think the weekly shows should mainly just be story build up with a few matches here and there with the blow off at the monthly events

 

[Sephiroth]

Sometimes the best stories are in matches:

 

[deimosmasque]

I go through waves. When I was much younger it was the characters and such. Then I was a work rate mark for a while.

Today I'm a "Why not both" kind of person.

 

[P A Z]

Characters, stories and gimmicks are without doubt more important, matches just need to be "good enough".

 

[sir_crocodile]

You need a mix. NJPW generally gets the balance best for me. They tell the story in the ring, the backstage interviews are just gravy

 

[RoninRay]

I am 60% wrestling and 40% everything else. You can build a great storyline and the match is shit then it's all ruined. If you have a subpar build and the match is great that can elevate the whole thing for me. The true all time greats though take the storyline and there character and bring it into the match.

 

[The Bookerman]

The Bucks do flash because the Rock 'n' Roll Express did flash, and that was their inspiration. The flash is literally part of their character. That's why both of the things in the OP are intertwined.

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Tell that to Jim Cornette and he's gonna go mad.
There's a world of difference between RnR Express and the "Young Bucks"

 

[Sephiroth]

Tell that to Jim Cornette and he's gonna go mad.
There's a world of difference between RnR Express and the "Young Bucks"

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Fuck Jim Cornette. He needs to be done with anything wrestling related.

 

[Anth0ny]

STARS

ARE

EVERYTHING


I can enjoy a great match with little build up or angles or promos. See: the G1 every year. The best in the industry do plenty of story telling in that ring.

meanwhile, I could give two shits about good promos or angles if I know the people involved are shitty workers that are going to have a boring fucking match.

obviously the cream of the crop are those who can do both. Omega/Okada IV and Bret/Austin at mania 13 are the GOATs for a reason.

 

[Big One]

Did someone here honestly say AEW guys don't cut good promos? AEW arguably has the best promos in the entire business, lmao. Wtf you talking about? AEW is both character and workrate. WWE does it too but both are done in such a lame and uneventful way it makes you not care for the product.

 

[IMCaprica]

Of course you need both, but as previously stated in this thread, WWE is proof that stories and characters make the show. Because it is a show at the end of the day. WWE is in its WCW 2000 phase and by all accounts it's miserable.

Tell that to Jim Cornette and he's gonna go mad.
There's a world of difference between RnR Express and the "Young Bucks"

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Yeah well Jim's a sexual predator and a bigot whose only real claim to fame was losing all his performers to companies that actually knew what to do with them. I can't wait to hopefully never hear about his death.

 

[Pascal]

I think my favorite aspect of wrestling are matches that tell a compelling story solely within the confines of the ring. For that you need both a proper build-up and the in-ring skills necessary to tell an actual story. That's why both are kinda intertwined to me. For a truly great match, you can't really have one without the other.

 

[Phoenixazure]

Sometimes the best stories are in matches:

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This is the main argument towards "Workrate" preference. Its not "Athleticism" but workrate as in Character workrate taking place in the middle of the ring. Thats why I'll lean towards Workrate because gimmicks,charisma, and storylines are best told in the ring. The "Stars" are indictive towards that.

 

[RecRoulette]

Yeah, IMO NOTHING has been more damaging to pro-wrestling as an institution as not having crowds during the pandemic.

Not saying it isn't the right thing to do- it had to be done- but quite frankly a have complete apathy to the product right now.

The fun comes from the crowd interaction and reactions, the cheers and the boos. Wrestlers firing them up, or getting their hate.

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This is so damn true, I watched clips from the Royal Rumble and seeing Christian's return to canned crowd noise was just fucking sad. Like some WWE video game shit

 

[DJChuy]

Characters and storyline.

There's a reason why the Attitude Era is highly regarded even though most of the wrestling is kind of average. You can also look at how Matt Hardy and Orange Cassidy got over because of their characters.

 

[Sectorseven]

Matches are like special FX in a movie.

 

[meataem]

I'm in the "both are important" camp, but I'll take great characters in a compelling feud having a mediocre match over bland characters in a boring feud having a great match any day.

 

[HomokHarcos]

Matches are like special FX in a movie.

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The way I think of it promos=cutscenes and matches=gameplay.

 

[colorblindmode]

Tell that to Jim Cornette and he's gonna go mad.
There's a world of difference between RnR Express and the "Young Bucks"

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Jim Cornette is a racist piece of shit that I would prefer fell off the face of the earth

 

[The Bookerman]

Jim Cornette is a racist piece of shit that I would prefer fell off the face of the earth

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I just brought him up cause of his history with RnR Express. Not trying to put him on a pedestal.

 

[colorblindmode]

I just brought him up cause of his history with RnR Express. Not trying to put him on a pedestal.

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The fact that Cornette hates them makes me like the Bucks even more. Anything that pisses that garbage human off is worth it.

 

[The Bookerman]

The fact that Cornette hates them makes me like the Bucks even more. Anything that pisses that garbage human off is worth it.

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I understand. I still find them to be overrated.

 

[Lulu]

this is Angle is the goat

 

[Deleted member 12224]

Sometimes the best stories are in matches:

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Ciampa Gargano at Takeover New Orleans is one of the greatest matches ever because of the entire story told before the match.

The act of Ciampa walking out with no theme and getting booed louder than any building I've ever heard for any sport or wrassle show I've attended told more of a story than 99% of wrestling matches.

 

[Foffy]

I think ring work is what I like most. I'm not talking flippy dippy shit, but I can take some comedy spots if properly presented. For example, the humor in Tomoaki Honma always going for a kokeshi headbutt and the joke being that he hits as frequently as if he's in an XCOM game is something I can get behind, but I find holiday themed food fight matches in WWE to be crude and quite shitty. Using Honma as an example, just him trying to do a move he more frequently fails to do, consistently, is part of his character. You don't even need to hear a word from his raspy voice to be able to figure out what kind of character he is.

I am very rarely a fan of interferences, 50/50 booking, and non-finish finishes to matches, something WWE does and justifies with its storylines. These almost always sacrifice what actually happens in the ring for a "larger narrative" that never pays off because it's designed that all sides end up even in the end. Who won on a given week is just as likely to lose to the same person the following week.

 

[Billfisto]

WWE is in its WCW 2000 phase

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No way. WCW 2000 was a glorious disaster that was endlessly entertaining because new stupid bullshit could happen at any moment.

Current WWE is just formulaic treading water. You can literally predict what happens every single show.

 

[BioDigital Jazzman]

Well growing up my favorites were all about the character and I didn't care if they sucked at wrestling's so yea

 

[Sparkedglory2]

You need a healthy mix, but a good storyline is more necessary for building stars and growing a brand. People tend to remember the characters and their moments more than they do their in ring performances.
And nowadays both WWE and AEW are failing miserably with this as far as I'm concerned. Angles that make no sense, a bit too much focus on just doing as much stuff in the ring as possible rather than telling a story with their matches.

I could show any random person on the street a few matches from the last couple of years and they most likely wouldn't get invested because IMO things just look too much like the talent is working together. Convoluted moves and false finishes everywhere.

Whereas I could show them something like Shelton Benjamin's match with Triple H on Raw where damn near every movement in the ring meant something and neither guy put their body on the line for an over the top move, and you're glued to it because of the story the two are telling in the ring. WWE still ended up dropping the ball with Benjamin, but still

 

[Anth0ny]

who needs promos when the match gives you this:

or this:

 

[Huncho]

A good feud culminating with 4 to 5 stars is what I want.

WWE doesn't have that no more

 

[thepenguin55]

While I think the story stuff on last week's Dynamite was bad, AEW's story's and promos are generally great as are its characters IMO. AEW along with NJPW are the only wrestling companies today that I'm not embarrassed to watch in front of people who aren't wrestling fans.

I enjoy over the top antics like OC dumping orange juice on the Inner Circle or even going to the extent of The Undertaker rising to heaven after a casket match. That said, good/great promos and stories can't carry a show full of bad wrestling but good/great Wrestling can carry a show full of bad promos and stories.

 

[sph3re]

The characters can be intensely entertaining out of the ring, but if they aren't working for me in the ring, what's the point of watching it? I certainly don't watch wrestling for the writing.