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Prediction: Microsoft will release a Mid Gen controller update with Adaptive Triggers.
- Thread starter jman1954goat
- Start date
OP
OP
so third party games support the feature more.
unless we discovery an obvious downside to adaptive triggers we should want as much support from as many company's as possible.
Microsoft treats their Controllers as a separate line of Product Input Hardware; Just like their Mice and Keyboards. Idea being that by taking this approach Microsoft essentially secures a Monopoly over the Controller standard because since it is the defacto controller people use when gaming with Controller on Xbox, PC or now Mobile (as they push XCloud), developers and third party partners are forced to adapt to their input standards.
The Upside for Microsoft is that they can be sure that their controller has a breadth of compatbility no matter the platform, and Microsoft has a high incentive to ensure that their controller is compatibile across devices; which is why you see the Xbox One controller being compatible with the new Series consoles. It also means that they can do these inter-generational controller updates and add in features if it makes sense, as we've seen with the Elite Controller.
Of course the downside for Microsoft is that because they have to keep in mind their compatibility and developer support, they'll be slower to adopt new features because by being the defacto standard, everybody relies on them not breaking compatibility or adding options that would render existing controllers null and void.
There is pros and cons to both approach. So maybe we'll see them add in more massive changes this generation. But it'll take them awhile to get to that point.
The Upside for Microsoft is that they can be sure that their controller has a breadth of compatbility no matter the platform, and Microsoft has a high incentive to ensure that their controller is compatibile across devices; which is why you see the Xbox One controller being compatible with the new Series consoles. It also means that they can do these inter-generational controller updates and add in features if it makes sense, as we've seen with the Elite Controller.
Of course the downside for Microsoft is that because they have to keep in mind their compatibility and developer support, they'll be slower to adopt new features because by being the defacto standard, everybody relies on them not breaking compatibility or adding options that would render existing controllers null and void.
There is pros and cons to both approach. So maybe we'll see them add in more massive changes this generation. But it'll take them awhile to get to that point.
What proof is there that Microsoft's controller is the defacto one used on PC?
Yeah I theorized this a few days ago too, I'd say it's as close to a lock as any prediction years out you could have at this point.
It's a very low-risk move that causes relatively little disruption, every game would still work fine with the existing controllers, you just don't get the advanced haptic effects in games that support it. The speaker/mic/motion sensing would be nice (?), but really not necessary, and leaving those out would keep the cost increase to a minimum while also minimizing the work developers have to do.
The killer feature of the Dualsense that everyone is glowing about is the haptic feedback, and MS would be stupid not to just update the default controller with it going forward. I'd be shocked if they're not already working on it.
That's assuming they would replace the default controller - if they do something idiotic like relegate this to a $100+ Elite3 model, then forget it - but I don't think they're that oblivious.
It's a very low-risk move that causes relatively little disruption, every game would still work fine with the existing controllers, you just don't get the advanced haptic effects in games that support it. The speaker/mic/motion sensing would be nice (?), but really not necessary, and leaving those out would keep the cost increase to a minimum while also minimizing the work developers have to do.
The killer feature of the Dualsense that everyone is glowing about is the haptic feedback, and MS would be stupid not to just update the default controller with it going forward. I'd be shocked if they're not already working on it.
That's assuming they would replace the default controller - if they do something idiotic like relegate this to a $100+ Elite3 model, then forget it - but I don't think they're that oblivious.
The Xbox 360 and The Xbox One controllers have been at the top of the charts on PC since the early days of the 360 when Microsoft initially released XInput and drivers on all platforms. In the 360 days every single person had a 360 controller. The wired controllers were plug and play by default and the Wireless while requiring the wireless adapter was a staple in just about every PC Gamers accessory repitoire. The Xbox One controller being even simpler to pair since any controller can just plug-and-play by default on any platform.
In addition if you go to just about any review site the Xbox Controller always ranks number 1 on every single chart. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Both of those mean that people looking to buy controllers are more likely to buy the top ranked (which is the Xbox Controller) after their basic amount of research.
If you want actual statistics. While actual Statistics are far and few between. Here is an Arstechnica article from 2018 which confirms statistics gotten directly from Valve on the marketshare of controllers that had connected to Steam.
Valve reveals just how many PC gamers plug in gamepads—and which kinds
The latest data comes straight from Steam's internal hardware surveys.
arstechnica.com
Anyhow. Put all of the above together and it explains why if you look at just about any PC Gamers desk, there is a high chance you will find an Xbox Controller somewhere within a couple meters of their mouse+keyboard. Because of the popularity of the Xbox Controller, most controllers on PC follow after the Xbox button layout standard. And because of this a lot of games on PC use the Xbox Buttons and Colors when displaying UI elements.
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I agree. One of the most disappointing decisions Microsoft has made imo.
And for those who argue against it : YOU CAN ALWAYS TURN IT OFF!
Oh wow, they're far and away the most popular
I'm actually surprised at how popular the Switch Pro is. It's an awesome controller, I just didn't think PC gamers thought so tooThe Xbox 360 and The Xbox One controllers have been at the top of the charts on PC since the early days of the 360 when Microsoft initially released XInput and drivers on all platforms. In the 360 days every single person had a 360 controller. The wired controllers were plug and play by default and the Wireless while requiring the wireless adapter was a staple in just about every PC Gamers accessory repitoire. The Xbox One controller being even simpler to pair since any controller can just plug-and-play by default. In addition if you go to just about any review site the Xbox Controller always ranks number 1 on every single chart. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Both of those mean that people looking to buy controllers are more likely to buy the top ranked (which is the Xbox Controller)
Also because of the popularity of the Xbox Controller, most controllers on PC follow after the Xbox button layout standard. And a lot of games on PC use the Xbox Buttons and Colors when displaying UI elements.
And if you want actual statistics. While actual Statistics are far and few between. Here is an Arstechnica article from 2018 which confirms statistics gotten directly from Value on the marketshare of controllers that had connected to Steam.
Valve reveals just how many PC gamers plug in gamepads—and which kinds
The latest data comes straight from Steam's internal hardware surveys.
Game devs certainly seem to think so, and in terms of native support - it is. The Dualshock 4 is a fine controller and I use it often on my PC, but its native support absolutely pales in comparison to the XBox One Controller, and it has to be run wired even in native mode for things like rumble + headphone jack to work. They could work with the wireless adapter Sony used to sell - emphasis on 'used' to, as they don't anymore and haven't for some time.
DS is great for PC games when you configure it as the touchpad gives you extra options to map stuff to, but in terms of the 'default' controller for a PC gamer new to gamepads, it wouldn't be my first recommendation. Xinput emulation software is a must, and in those cases you're not getting DS4 button prompts without mods or unless the game has native SteamInput support.
If they actually want to drive adoption though, it will have to be included with the console after it's released - like they did with the resized controller S on the original Xbox.
i would agree except all these games have to work with the feature off anyway (my understanding , could be wrong)
which is why it'll only ever be an enhancement since gameplay systems cannot rely on it.
edit: sorry, this didn't include the quote so put of context - i think ms could include it because its not a thing that needs to be on but is nice.
which is why it'll only ever be an enhancement since gameplay systems cannot rely on it.
edit: sorry, this didn't include the quote so put of context - i think ms could include it because its not a thing that needs to be on but is nice.
Oh interesting. It definitely felt unique compared to normal rumble and so when Sony announced the adaptive triggers, I just assumed they were doing a new version of what MS had already done. But it sounds like a whole different beast. I suppose the resistance I felt was probably just the intensified haptics feeling uncomfortable enough to make me loosen up my grip.
I'm sure there is more than 50 games on each system that utilize them. That said I doubt the percentage of useful or unique implementations amung cross-platform games is going to be that high since Developers have to develop to the lowest common denominator, which would be the Xbox Controller (or Xbox 360 if they are targetting PC). For the same reason why Developers didn't take too much advantage of the Xbox One Controllers Haptic Feedback on the Triggers, or the paddles on the Elite Controllers. Just a lack of marketshare of similar controller features across platforms.
As a fan of RPG's and First Person games I think it would be awesome if Microsoft updated their controller with advanced features like the DualSense.
How do you guys think the PRO / Competitive player community will react? They tend to turn features like this off and at the same time used as influencers in the gaming space.
How do you guys think the PRO / Competitive player community will react? They tend to turn features like this off and at the same time used as influencers in the gaming space.
They were right more than you know; in 15 years ago in 2005; rumble was a last gen feature according to them.. instead they implemented gyro, which allowed for gyro assisted aiming.
In 2020 a lot of people want it supported in mainstream shooters because it's great.
The steam controller proves all of this btw. In the right hands, you can destroy every traditional controller player.
If you compare actual haptics to rumble you will understand as well why rumble was considered a last gen feature more than a decade ago.
I just checked, but it was a limited check on mobile. 45 for switch as of March this year and 13 for PS4.
I know people are getting angry at people saying it's a gimmick, but this certainly sounds gimmicky to me.
We don't need that kind of Microsoft again.
In either case, a confirmation of games that use it would be nice since I can't do it, lol.
What does M&K have to do with another console manufacturer implementing a feature from their competitor? What PC gamers wasn't doesn't really factor into this.
Pretty much this . I guess gyro or mic in controller was praised as much .
Sony's PR trying (transparently) to justify cheaping out on their rumble implementation in the start of the PS3 generation was preposterous at the time, and it wasn't considered by any serious person to be a "last gen feature." Rumble, particularly the dual-motor style rumble from PS1/XB/PS2, is just a more basic form of haptics; That doesn't mean "it's old and it shouldn't be included," it means its pretty fundamental to any standard controller, even if it wasn't being enhanced over time.
The Switch Pro Controller lasts 40 hours while having a gyroscope, & the DualShock 4 had a gyroscope while not increasing the price, so neither of your justifications work.
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All of MS games are on PC and must be compatible with KB+M vs PS games are going to be PS5/PS4 or PS now exclusive
They still haven't added gyro to their controller. I think Microsoft is more into ... well I don't know, I was about to say they are into saving money but the gyro feature doesn't even cost money and they aren't even putting rechargeable AA batteries in their controller since they don't have to pay for a built in rechargeable battery like the other controllers.
Steam Controller too, and the batteries in that thing last ages. I don't get why people have to make excuses for not having something as small as gyro in the controller.
its funny just thinking about how ppl justify added work for 3rd party devs . This is added work to implement these features separate then what will be available to xbox /PC . Maybe this will lead to more PS exclusives
It can be added to PC games since PC gets Dual Sense too. Every PC game I own can use the touch pad and gyro. I get more functionality out of the Dual Shock 4 than PS4 gamers. It's awesome. It already looks like it will be easy to make use of the dualsense on PC even if the developers don't make use of it, we just need time, and for someone to make drivers, likely Valve or reWASD.
If the dual sense haptics are reacting to existing sound effects, may not be as much extra work as you think. We should wait and see before declaring definitively how much extra work needs to be done.
Google. Lol
Nothing personal, I just dislike these sorta questions in an age where you could just as easily typed adaptive trigger or dual sense patent.
Understanding the difference between DualSense's Adaptive Triggers and Xbox's Impulse Triggers (they are not the same)
It's weird to me to see people still comparing Xbox's Impulse Triggers and DualSense's Adaptive Triggers like they are one in the same, when there is so much information out there about each. Maybe it's that both have a "marketable" name for them? They're nothing alike, though. Underneath...
www.resetera.com
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MS have their own take patented:
New Xbox One resistive controller triggers detailed in Microsoft patents
Newly-surfaced patents explore adjustable-tension triggers, aiming to enhance controller feedback.
www.windowscentral.com
When it comes to Gyro it really doesn't make sense why they didn't add it considering they have IPs that could use it well (Forza) and they're all for accessibility options.
However, I can't really blame them for not having Adaptive Triggers, as they are the natural evolution of Xbox's Rumble Triggers (which were the 2013 version of Adaptive Triggers). They were touted as being what Adaptive Triggers actually are and nobody really used them. I don't think their own IPs used them for the most part. So they most likely saw it as a waste of R&D and just moved on. Then Sony evolved the tech and, well, here we are.
However, I can't really blame them for not having Adaptive Triggers, as they are the natural evolution of Xbox's Rumble Triggers (which were the 2013 version of Adaptive Triggers). They were touted as being what Adaptive Triggers actually are and nobody really used them. I don't think their own IPs used them for the most part. So they most likely saw it as a waste of R&D and just moved on. Then Sony evolved the tech and, well, here we are.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020013039&tab=PCTBIBLIO I believe its this -- note the description of varying thesholds in the abstract
I'm well aware. Thanks for sharing the link though.MS have their own take patented:
New Xbox One resistive controller triggers detailed in Microsoft patents
Newly-surfaced patents explore adjustable-tension triggers, aiming to enhance controller feedback.
Google. Lol
Nothing personal, I just dislike these sorta questions in an age where you could just as easily typed adaptive trigger or dual sense patent.
Understanding the difference between DualSense's Adaptive Triggers and Xbox's Impulse Triggers (they are not the same)
It's weird to me to see people still comparing Xbox's Impulse Triggers and DualSense's Adaptive Triggers like they are one in the same, when there is so much information out there about each. Maybe it's that both have a "marketable" name for them? They're nothing alike, though. Underneath...
I wanted to know which patent was being talked about, because what you described actually brings up several different patents in relation to the triggers.
The actual patent for the mechanism covers very specific details about the movements of the mechanism.
Then there are patents in relation to how they might use some of the sensors in the controller, including the gyro and the speaker.
Their vast first party Devs would be enough to get the ball rolling.