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SneakyBadger

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,543
Although I despise the way conservatives use "personal responsibility" to handwave any financial hardships that people face, I do believe that a significant portion of Americans is truly bad with money. Lots of people manage to improve their financial situations with the right guidance.

The prevalence of bad financial decisions tends to get exaggerated by the right and downplayed by the left.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Same for me, except I would absolutely vote for it (but only if the first people disarmed were the cops).

And frankly, the amount of support gun ownership is getting in this thread is fairly distressing.
I find militarized and corrupt fascist more disturbing. When they go away, I will be disturbed by my guns.
 

Kasai

Member
Jan 24, 2018
4,279
I wasn't able to vote in my state primary this past September due to laziness, and then very quickly a COVID scare.

Its the only election I haven't voted in since I turned 18.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,044
Chicago
The constitution is an outdated document that should have almost no bearing on modern society and it's mostly used by the right who misconstrue it's language to justify vile rhetoric.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,180
Why not? What logical reason would a Civilian have a need for an mp5 or ak-47?
Because it'll be more effective to address the underlying societal causes for gun purchases to bring down ownership numbers than just trying to regulate them away when everyone is primed to hunt down black market and 3D printed alternatives.

And a civilian doesn't need an MP5 just like they don't need a gun in general. But just because they don't need it doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to shoot faster.

I was here to post this same take. I personally own a pistol in my home for self-defense. I think that is perfectly fine.

I think there needs to be common sense gun laws and regulations, including getting rid of the show loophole. But I think that if you're 21, pass those background checks, and take classes for carries, then you should be allowed to have a gun

That being said, I am against open carry. I think it's one of those things where you're just asking for someone to cause a problem and/or to silence someone.
I'm for open carry. Well, kind of. While it does weird me out sometimes depending on where I am, it's better to know that someone's packing so you can adjust as needed than getting into a situation where everyone is conceal carry and having shit under shirts or inside bags.

Why? I think US should ban every single firearm.
Because I think it's not necessary. Spend more money on mental health, allow the CDC to study gun violence, close loopholes, put limits on people hopping across state borders to buy weaponry, have stricter background checks, and focus on other underlying societal stumbling blocks and less people will see the need to buy a gun for protection or whatever the cause. Less people will want to buy a gun in general because wait times to actually receive it are longer, or they are no longer eligible. People will lean toward not owning a gun or owning less guns via that alone.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,669
I was never formally politically aligned, but I tended to lean Republican until 2016. I hated Trump with a passion then and now I hate Trump and the Republican party. I will never vote R again for the rest of my life.
 

Gwenpoolshark

Member
Jan 5, 2018
4,109
The Pool
The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money
tumblr_pqy5b1mmvT1wqe1ed_400.gif


That money never belonged to those "other people" it was created out of the surplus of the laboring classes' work.
 

Homura

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 20, 2019
6,102
Not being racist, homophobic, transphobic and so on doesn't mean you're progressive or leftist. You're just a decent human being.
 

StoveOven

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
This probably isn't that controversial, but I get super annoyed when people talk about "treason" as if loyalty to the state was an actual virtue. Like, idgaf if Trump is a traitor or not. What I give a fuck about is that he has made the lives of millions materially worse. If there was a traitorous politician that I thought was helping improve people's lives, they would have my full-throated support
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Using "Human Nature" to justify capitalism makes you a sociopath.

Humans can and should control their worst impulses and become better. People 1000 years ago were raping as if it was normal.

So, STFU about human nature.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,373
At one point in college, I argued that anyone who was HIV positive was should be put on public record. My motivation at the time was being aware of the "poz load" phenomenon on the internet, where people who are knowingly ill infect people unwillingly. I think of this as a "sin" as it creates the larger issue of just presuming people with such an illness are "unpeople" and need to be recorded, though that was not my reasoning. I obviously no longer hold such an opinion, and I was a totally different person at that time when I argued it, but it's a view I feel produces shame and sorrow that I held at all.

My current Hot Take is I don't think we as a society should be held to an era of "enlightenment" that thought women were subjects to men and that non-whites were non-people. The constitution was written by, from a modern perspective, ignorant people. These weren't fucking sages who emerged from caves. This nostalgic idea that they "know better" is some sort of political mysticism from an era where people died of gangrene by tripping on the sidewalk.
 

16bits

Member
Apr 26, 2019
2,862
There are some hot takes in this thread, and yet, we are all getting along well. Why can't it always be this way with discourse?

I agree. It's usually not this civil - but this is a thread to post opinion that you know may get disagreements with others here.

post it outside of this thread, and the level of discourse will soon be in the gutter.

it's disturbing to see so many pro 2nd amendment advocates though, in an overwhelmingly left leaning forum.
 

Rex Griswold

Member
Oct 29, 2017
221
I'll also add some recs:

Amazon.com: This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible eBook : Cobb Jr., Charles E: Kindle Store

This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible - Kindle edition by Cobb Jr., Charles E. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading This Nonviolent...

41rz9EEwGiL.jpg

I had to hit up eBay for this one, thank you for the recommendation!

I have definitely come around on guns recently. I wouldn't be opposed to sweeping gun control if it meant the police were completely demilitarized (alongside all the other radical changes to our society that you suggested). But as it stands I don't see the gun culture of this country changing or the guns getting out of the ecosystem.

Personally I'd love to live in a world where we don't have guns and we can vote in socialism but sadly we don't live in that world.

This is the other thing too many people ignore. There are a lot of guns in this country, some were years and years of wanting something fancy, others were grandpa's war trophy taken from a fallen German in WWI, others were a great aunts whole reason for still being alive in the face of a home invasion, there are a myriad reasons people might not want to give something up. I mean, does anyone really think someone like me would just hand over my MP5? Like, my actual, real, made in Germany by HK MP5 that has been something I'd been wanting since I saw Die Hard when I was like 9? Fuck no, "Sorry, idk where it went, I lost it in a boating accident, bye!". That thing cost me close to four grand after registering it as an SBR and throwing an optic on it. I love it and I love the rich history behind the platform and what made it an icon. Same with my SIG P49 and my Manurhin MR73, the weird expensive guns no one's heard of. Even more pedestrian ones like my Imperial P08 and rearsenaled SMLE have wonderful histories behind them with many books to go with them. Long time goals like that aren't just gonna be handed over.

I will argue gun culture is changing in the best way, there's a lot more pushback towards the generic right wing fuckboy that used to be what defined gun ownership, I don't keep my mouth shut about my opinions around other gun owners anymore because I'm not alone. Far left liberal gun owner is only a foreign concept in the most devout anti-gun echo chambers.

There are some hot takes in this thread, and yet, we are all getting along well. Why can't it always be this way with discourse?

I'll admit I posted that expecting a dog pile, because even just a year ago admitting to being pro gun was asking to get shit on around here. I'm enjoying this discourse and seeing the many different opinions here, and most are not just drive-by posts. There's thought put into many of them. I appreciate and understand many of these view points, regardless of weather or not I personally agree.

Anti-gun sentiment is not in and of itself "left".

No lies detected.
 

YMB

Member
Nov 6, 2017
595
I tend to go middle of the road on certain things like abortion and borders. I can see points from both sides and feel there is a discussion to be had. Im not for gun control instead i feel there are plenty of other ways to help curve gun violence and make everyone on the whole a better society without touching them. Im not for "de-fund" the police, but instead im for better structuring, better training and more non-lethal methods. In theory im for the death penalty, but the system right now is too broken to guarantee someone of being 100% guilty. Im for non-violent felons to have their voting and gun rights restored and i would be for every felon if they did their time, but the prison system is too heavily flawed to guarantee actual reform to the individual.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,923
it's disturbing to see so many pro 2nd amendment advocates though, in an overwhelmingly left leaning forum.

I don't think it's that disturbing at all. I think the loudest members on this site are a minority group and the majority of members pick their threads deliberately and this site isn't as far left leaning as you think it is. What IS disturbing is this idea that if you have ANY values that lean more centrist, you are basically labeled a red neck racist republican by that vocal minority group.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Only the center-left is anti-gun. The far-left is pro-gun for various reasons, mostly based around self determination.

67Brx95.png


American labor, before it was destroyed by the McCarthyists, won many labor rights off of the backs of their armed strikes.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
I agree. It's usually not this civil - but this is a thread to post opinion that you know may get disagreements with others here.

post it outside of this thread, and the level of discourse will soon be in the gutter.

it's disturbing to see so many pro 2nd amendment advocates though, in an overwhelmingly left leaning forum.
I am pro gay right, women's rights, environmental causes, health care as a right, workers right, pro union, pro free education, pro prison reform, pro immigration, etc.

So much so that I refuse to have a gun to my head by extremist without being prepared to clap back if required to defend myself. I hope I never have to. I hope civility and dialog wins the day. I hope it never comes to anyone getting hurt. But look at history and tell me that it doesn't happen.

How does that make me not left leaning?
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,636
I used to be a libertarian. Was full of shit anyway and never voted.

Happily a democrat now.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,644
I used to think that conservatives just didn't know about the issues, and that civility was all that was needed to combat their rhetoric.

Lol.
 

NekoFever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,009
I'm pro-choice as far as the law is concerned but I'm not super pro-abortion. I have trouble not thinking of the zygote as more than a clump of cells.

But I don't think it's equal to killing a baby, and ultimately I think it's better for society if it's allowed.
I don't think anyone is pro-abortion – there's a reason the position is branded 'pro-choice'. It's never something that's taken lightly and I think rightly so.

All that matters is it's there as a safe, free, accessible option for those who want or need it, and it's not my business or anyone else's but theirs.
 

fanboi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,702
Sweden
I don't think it's that disturbing at all. I think the loudest members on this site are a minority group and the majority of members pick their threads deliberately and this site isn't as far left leaning as you think it is. What IS disturbing is this idea that if you have ANY values that lean more centrist, you are basically labeled a red neck racist republican by that vocal minority group.

Yeah, this I agree on
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Can one be far left and anti-gun? I've been considered fairly far left but I am anti-gun due to being a pacifist.
I don't think anyone should gatekeep. Sure.

I used to be a pacifist too. I still long for that world to exist. I don't fault anyone for holding to that as a practice.
 

Hexcalibur

Member
Jun 24, 2020
256
Civility is ass, violence is the only language the elites speak so the people should reciprocate at some point. Prison shouldn't be the end all be all for punitive measures. I have no hope for the future no matter how the election turns out.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Can one be far left and anti-gun? I've been considered fairly far left but I am anti-gun due to being a pacifist.
Not everyone on the far left is a pacifist, most of them aren't. When I say "far left" I'm talking about revolutionary types, pacifists generally do not make great revolutionaries for obvious reasons. It is very difficult to reconcile insurrection and pacifism.

But there are some far left pacifists as well.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
I don't think it's that disturbing at all. I think the loudest members on this site are a minority group and the majority of members pick their threads deliberately and this site isn't as far left leaning as you think it is. What IS disturbing is this idea that if you have ANY values that lean more centrist, you are basically labeled a red neck racist republican by that vocal minority group.

Yeah that's what I mean. This thread, or rather the people participating in it, have done an admirable job not resorting to dogpiling or labeling or passive aggressive behavior. And I think it's lead to some stimulating discussion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
I firmly believe that a lot of the vocal Left have a rhetoric problem that completely undermine their ideas and alienate more people than bring them over. Talks of revolution, theory, and other cringe Tanky stuff really isn't the way to win people over and move them to the left.
I feel like Bernie understood this with his focus on class issues, but his rhetoric was still too extreme for a lot of people, something of which if he changed, things could have been different.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,487
I agree. It's usually not this civil - but this is a thread to post opinion that you know may get disagreements with others here.

post it outside of this thread, and the level of discourse will soon be in the gutter.

it's disturbing to see so many pro 2nd amendment advocates though, in an overwhelmingly left leaning forum.

It is in no way surprising that there are so many 2nd amendment avocates even on the left. As a Canadian, what I have realized in my various interactions with Democrats and Republicans is that the average one I come across likes guns and like the ability to have them for protection. The only difference is one side wants it more regulated than the other.

Americans and guns are very inherently tied in a way you dont see in most other western nations.
 

HououinKyouma

The Wise Ones
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
Ohhhhh man, dark times.

So you know that kid in your freshman year economics course? The one that has an Ayn Rand-esque awakening because he learns about elementary supply/demand for the first time? Yeah, that was me. I was so adamant about pushing libertarian policies through, it was disgusting.

Thank fully that was just a short phase though. I eventually grew up and saw the real world. I'm now firmly a democratic socialist.

I used to think that conservatives just didn't know about the issues, and that civility was all that was needed to combat their rhetoric.

Lol.
Ooo yeah, this too. When I eventually shifted away from my libertarian views back over to more of a liberal/centrist, I thought there was a great place to "meet in the middle."
 

iwam

Member
Aug 7, 2019
95
I firmly believe that a lot of the vocal Left have a rhetoric problem that completely undermine their ideas and alienate more people than bring them over. Talks of revolution, theory, and other cringe Tanky stuff really isn't the way to win people over and move them to the left.
I feel like Bernie understood this with his focus on class issues, but his rhetoric was still too extreme for a lot of people, something of which if he changed, things could have been different.

"Tankie" means "leftist who supports the crimes of the latter-day Soviet bloc", not "leftist who is too radical for my liking".

And theory and revolution aren't "cringe", they've necessary components of ideologies. If you took PolSci 101, you'd learn that every ideology, including that practiced by those in power, has its own surfeit of ideological writings and theorisation behind it.

However, I do agree with you to a certain extent - some leftist groups should make their ideals more accessible and approachable to the mainstream, and focus more on the material needs of the people.

I'd be happy if prohibition was brought back.

As someone who doesn't drink and generally has a negative opinion of alcohol, I disagree. It will lead to the rise of organised crime and corruption just like it did when it was first tried. Hell, we've slowly learning as a society that cannabis prohibition isn't working either, so this seems like a step backwards.