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Possible discovery of life on Venus UPDATE: Phosphine discovered in the upper atmosphere
- Thread starter GokouD
- Start date
Yes. We won't get a "100% sure" statement until we fetch a sample. This is as close as "we found something" as we are gonna get
I've been desperate for even the slightest confirmation of a possibility of life on another planet and even if it's just microbes I am SO pumped.
From what I've read in the original article thus far, they both measured their instruments against the baselines of other telescopes, but also other known points of reference both on Venus and elsewhere. Stuff like the deuterated water there - they got that to match, so that even with abnormalities on Earth, those would be basically included in the baseline, and any further deviation would come of what they get on Venus.
I think. It's admittedly tough for me to parse
This picture is realy awesome! But the probe didnt survive more than a couple of minutes.It is, this is the pic we have of the surface from the Soviet probe
But we have some microbes that are tough as nails even on Earth, so nothing is impossible
Also it's pretty established that Venus used to have water Oceans that evaporated due to a runaway greenhouse effect, so if there's life on Venus it could be a remnant of a time when it was more hospitable
Mars was always a deception by the Venus cloudlizards disguised as people, infiltrated to the highest levels of our governments
I always love how hard he's trying not to break down laughing at the end there.
I mean, Russia put a probe on Venus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera why should we not be able to fetch a sample from the upper atmosphere? It would be hard and expensive and crazy...but why not?
I'm actually pretty disappointed with this discovery. Venus was the prime candidate for terrforming. If there's life there I can't see that happening.
Live press briefing:
www.youtube.com
RAS Press Briefing - Phosphine on Venus
The Royal Astronomical Society press briefing held on 14 Sep 2020, discussing the detection of phosphine in the cloud decks of Venus. See https://ras.ac.uk/n...
www.youtube.com
Do we even know how to reverse a greenhouse effect? I figured Mars would be a better candidate since we know how to heat a planet up. My vision of Venus colonization would be floating cities in that same part of the atmosphere that could contain life.
We'd have to test how well Earth and Venetian organisms get along. If they're from the same genesis event, then it could go quite well, but if life evolved on Venus independently, then the results may not look too good...
Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds (Published 2020)
The detection of a gas in the planet’s atmosphere could turn scientists’ gaze to a planet long overlooked in the search for extraterrestrial life.
Good summary
the embargo was broken, there were news articles already explaining what it was
and then it was still followed with pages of 'what if they found single celled organisms!'
The article, by the way:
www.nature.com
It's free to access for today
Phosphine gas in the cloud decks of Venus - Nature Astronomy
The detection of ~20 ppb of phosphine in Venus clouds by observations in the millimetre-wavelength range from JCMT and ALMA is puzzling, because according to our knowledge of Venus, no phosphine should be there. As the most plausible formation paths do not work, the source could be unknown...
www.nature.com
It's free to access for today
The article, by the way:
Phosphine gas in the cloud decks of Venus - Nature Astronomy
The detection of ~20 ppb of phosphine in Venus clouds by observations in the millimetre-wavelength range from JCMT and ALMA is puzzling, because according to our knowledge of Venus, no phosphine should be there. As the most plausible formation paths do not work, the source could be unknown...
It's free to access for today
Thanks for the link!
Oh I see, thank you. Watching the press briefing, they did point out that they are not claiming to have found life.
Not back to Earth. It may be possible for a balloon probe to gather samples and do in-situ analysis.
None of the planets or moons in the solar system are really suitable for terraforming. They're too different to Earth in too many ways that would require vast amounts of time and resources to change. Those resources would be better devoted to space-based habitats. The discovery of life on Venus, if confirmed, would change the argument against terraforming from an economic one to a moral one, but terraforming is losing that argument either way.
Well...if we decided to terraform Venus then these microbes, if they exist now, are dead. Terraforming would destroy their environment. If they somehow survived that as per this press briefing, to produce the amount of phosphine they do, they'd have a peak efficiency of ~10% of Earth-based organisms. They'd be out-competed very badly by Earth-originated life.
Would that not be Mars or some of the gas giants' moons? I've never heard about Venus being a prime candidate for terraforming, it seems far too hostile.
Fake edit: Yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming said:
After seeing it in the morning sky I was thinking this morning how wild it is that we have images of the surface of Venus:
It seems like with the advances we've made in materials science, we should be able to assemble something (ceramics? carbon fiber?) that could survive the trip to the surface and run for more than an hour or two. That would be high up on my personal list of space missions that we should do next.
would probably be a 1 way trip, just a probe that can analyse it's own samples and be remotely programmed like they send to other places. They'd have to design a glider or helicopter or something for it.
I'm glad they did this so I didn't have to go to my work computer to access it lolThe article, by the way:
Phosphine gas in the cloud decks of Venus - Nature Astronomy
The detection of ~20 ppb of phosphine in Venus clouds by observations in the millimetre-wavelength range from JCMT and ALMA is puzzling, because according to our knowledge of Venus, no phosphine should be there. As the most plausible formation paths do not work, the source could be unknown...
It's free to access for today
Yeah I kind of came off as a dick, but it was just kind of funny to see.
I mean, Mars is really fucking boring. It's a cold ball of dirt without a magnetic field, much of an atmosphere, and any possibility of life. Only reason people are obsessed by it is that they want to spend 8 months ferrying some unlucky bastards there to plant a flag in the toxic soil.
Even before this phosphine discovery, Venus was way more interesting.
Mars has liquid water below the surface though, and the changing seasonal methane levels point to potential signs of life as well.
Phosphine - Wikipedia
it's a phosphorus with three hydrogens
our current understanding is it would be unlikely to have been made with processes we know of in the quantity they found other than if life was present
edit this very recently added part of that article explains it pretty well
"It is also found in Jupiter's turbulent atmosphere where it forms in the planet's hot interior and reacts with other compounds in the upper atmosphere.[16] The abiotic synthesis of phosphine takes enormous amounts of energy, such as in the planet-sized convective storms of gas giants.[17] Phosphine has also been detected in the atmosphere of Venus and its origin is currently unexplained—with the paper announcing the discovery suggesting that the phosphine "could originate from unknown photochemistry or geochemistry, or, by analogy with biological production of PH3 on Earth, from the presence of life".[18][19][20]"
2nd edit: that's basically just the abstract lol
Last edited:
That is like 20,000 years out if ever.
We are infinitely closer to messing around with terraforming on Mars.
Let me help fix this timeline:
- July 2025: Pharmaceutical companies experimenting with the virus discover that if processed, via a combination of other chemicals, into a fine grain the microorganism can be inhaled producing stimulating effects on human consciousness.
- August: 2025: Drug leaked to public by insiders and are sold underground for $5K to the public.
- September 2025: New Manufacture process allows the Microorganisms to be grown and processed on Earth by underground techs around the word. The new processed grain version of the microorganism is known on the street as "Spice" or "Melange."
-November 2025: Consistent users of the spice learn that it not only unlocks further cognitive functions but that the spice also appears to slow the effects of cellular decay, in addition to enhancing various body parts(speed, vision..etc). Predictions exist that the spice could extend life for humans by 200+ years.
- February 2026: Spice users notice that the drug apparently has an addictive quality, those who quit taking the spice suffer withdrawal and eventually death. Long-term users of the spice not that it turns the color of the entire eye blue. Demands are made for further spice production requiring large scale extraction of the microorganism directly from the atmosphere of Venus. Lab production of the spice is determined to be inefficient and not nearly as effective as the raw source found on Venus.
- November 2026: The first spice miners are sent to Venus as spice withdrawal continues to kill large portions of the population addicted to the Melange. These miners utilize robotics and protective suits to mine the microorganism from Venus' atmosphere. Further research is devoted to terraforming Venus such that it is at least hospitable for human travel and safer mining from its surface as opposed to atmospherics stations.
- March 2028: Atmospheric condensers have been assembled on Venus and have begun terraforming the planet for safer mining, careful not to disturb the precise environment that allows for the growth of the microrganism.
- September 2028: Spice miners are able to extract microorganism for the first time while on the surface of Venus. As they begin their first extraction, mild tremors are felt beneath their feet.
- October 2028: The first surface Venus Spice Miners go missing. The last radio transmission are as follows:
"Do you feel that?"
"Roger, some sort of tectonic shift?"
"It's growing."
"What is that?!"
"My GOD! It looks like some kind of...worm."
"ARGGGHHH"
*END TRANSMISSION*
Phosphine - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
it's a phosphorus with three hydrogens
our current understanding is it would be unlikely to have been made with processes we know of in the quantity they found other than if life was present
edit this very recently added part of that article explains it pretty well
"It is also found in Jupiter's turbulent atmosphere where it forms in the planet's hot interior and reacts with other compounds in the upper atmosphere.[16] The abiotic synthesis of phosphine takes enormous amounts of energy, such as in the planet-sized convective storms of gas giants.[17] Phosphine has also been detected in the atmosphere of Venus and its origin is currently unexplained—with the paper announcing the discovery suggesting that the phosphine "could originate from unknown photochemistry or geochemistry, or, by analogy with biological production of PH3 on Earth, from the presence of life".[18][19][20]"
2nd edit: that's basically just the abstract lol
Yeah, they discussed the comparison with Jupiter in the stream - Jupiter is way larger, and the atmosphere is under far greater pressure. Too much so for anywhere on Venus to match without some immense shenanigans involved.