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Ok I'll bite.
The developers are being paid to develop the game as we speak. Once the game is released? They stop developing the game and stop being paid.
None of them are being "punished".
If the game doesn't sell well, the people who get punished are JK Rowling and WB. Both of them deserve that for being awful and working with someone who is awful so who fucking cares?
Meanwhile more games will be made and maybe next time they will get the same devs to work on something that isn't actively promoting hate around the world.
It really isn't complicated.
I'm always late to these threads. I agree with this take here.
User banned (permanent): defending transphobia
Love JK Rowling and Harry Potter - surprised it look so good and was with demon souls the highlight for me - I think it hit like 2 in YouTube trending, huge brand - can't wait to play it - yes I don't agree with her views on trans people but in general I believe she has really positive and good beliefs and there are much worse people in the world - day 1.
This.
Also, did you ERA really believe the promotion for this game isn't going to be full of donations and pledges to trans support communities? And that the devs don't really want to punch Rowling in her million dollars face? or are angry that their work is going to be related to that bigot? They're going to do everything they can to say "hey, we only use her world's license becaus epeople love it". That they aren't going to include any LGBT friendly or anti racial stories. We talk about a huge JRPG with a story length that can rival one of her books FFS
Devil's Advocate here:
The trailer leaked in 2018, like two years ago. it was pretty well into development and sure they've been delaying this because they want to make it big on PS5 and Xbox series. Surely when they signed the deal with Rowling, possibly even five years ago; they didn't knew how big of a bigot she was. They sank too much time in an ambitious game that surely will go beyond the call of duty like the Mad Max game was. they possibly think that they rather release the game to not shelve like three or four years of AAA development. They could rework but the HP imagery is so firm that the rework would cost like two years to rearrange frigging everything.
There's no easy solution for this.
And before everyone sugests i'm defending J.K., fuck no, she's a racist, a transforbic and a classist.
This is where I'm at when I here about boycotting, Rowling won't suffer because one game failed Because she has her money! the only people who suffer are the little people. The sad truth on the manner is the only way to hold her accountable would be if we had the ability to take her millions away. As long as she is a billionair, she has power to spread her horse shit.
Yeah, kind of. Giving anything this TERF profits on a platform fucking blows.
What in the hell kind of a post is this?
You want to know why the Trans community feels unsafe, why many members left? Here we have a post that is NOT in a thread solely dedicated to talking about the game that says :
-Love JK Rowling
-can't wait to play
-she has really positive and good beliefs and there are much worse people in the world - day 1.
No one gives a flying fuck about punishing devs if they think a game is trash either. Fucking clown shoes ass argument. You literally just don't want to feel bad about the things you want to buy knowing the greater context around that purchase.
That's not how this works. 100% of my money went to the used seller. If that seller then used the money to buy drugs and I was unaware, does that mean I support drug dealers?
Yeah what she's doing in shouting that shit from the rooftops is despicable, stirring up people coming out of the shadows with similar views. I do like the point you make about that the game bombing is on WB and especially Rowling really. I hope she feels the full weight of that if it does end up happening.
Cool, thanks for the explanation. I don't really know much about how game developers get paid and I'm glad to hear they won't really be impacted. Hopefully they can take this experience and make something great in a different universe next time.
Having said that, I wasn't trying to get you to "bite". It would be nice to be able to ask a genuine question and get a straight answer without the condescension.
Thank you mods. I know I'm being extra on this
topic but it's something that must constantly be fought for, there are so few Trans, Trans ally voices
topic but it's something that must constantly be fought for, there are so few Trans, Trans ally voices
I would kind of understand if it was an exclusive game. But nah this shit's releasing on everything. They didn't have to do this.
Here's a better idea...
Donate $70 to a trans rights nonprofit...
...And also don't buy the game and give her any funds either.
There are dozens of other games out there that AREN'T attached at the hip to an enormous, spiteful, hateful transphobic bigot who can, will, and does actively use the funds people gave her for Harry Potter to actively harm trans individuals.
You want a list of great games to play that you likely haven't ever experienced, from people who AREN'T horrible? Ask around. Ask ME. I'm sure I can come up with a list of phenomenal, life-changing gaming experiences that are better worth your time, money, and energy... and, I remind you, won't give any money to an actively hostile transphobic monster.
The problem is you know where that money went in the first place when the software was bought.
If that seller than used the money to buy drugs and you were aware, it does mean that you support someone's drug addiction and also support drug dealers yes.
Buying a game second hand is essentially pirating a copy from the viewpoint of a publisher (if you don't engage in mtx) which is why they tried to gaslight us that the second-hand market was bad for the industry back in 2010-2013 with project 10$
But I never contributed to that money. Again,100% of my money went to a seller. I don't understand how this is being interpreted in such a jumping-through-hoops manner. There's a reason why AAA game companies compared used game sales and gamestop to piracy at one point.
Part of me thinks it's more likely that WB buys all Potter rights from her than anyone in power actually talking to her about how horrible she's being.
My understanding is that the developers get paid with the assumption of profits, if the game bombs they could lose their jobs because their studio didn't make a profit.
JK suffers if she's so toxic that all promotion gets drowned out by legitimate issues with her and WB finally decides it's time to have a talk.
My understanding is that the developers get paid with the assumption of profits, if the game bombs they could lose their jobs because their studio didn't make a profit.
JK suffers if she's so toxic that all promotion gets drowned out by legitimate issues with her and WB finally decides it's time to have a talk.
Which at this point many publishers do not care because they've moved away from this as the primary form of profit making and towards other forms of monetization dependent on DLC and other ingame purchases. Even if you do not purchase DLC, you are still boosting the visibility of the franchise by actively engaging with it.
There's no real ethical way of consuming Harry Potter because of how militant Rowling has been against trans rights.
I get what you are saying here, but that used copy was already paid for and now it is just plastic waste siting in a shelf or drawer at some retailer. WB and TERF JK already got their money from that game's sale. The person who traded it in got their store credit or cash already. Any sales thereafter are going 100% to the retailer.
And we can't know the history behind the game. At a GS I used to work at, we used to get a lot of games from publishers, reviewers, PR firm, and people from related industries who would trade their copies the same day the game released because we happened to have a large collection of game devs in our area. They were likely free copies given to them. So in that case no money was spent at any point on the game. It was just a copy that somebody made an instant $30 on with no monetary investment on their end.
If people want to buy used, their money isn't supporting JK. Perhaps it will support any statistics developers/publishers collect when that person plays, but if the concern is money, JK TERFing and WB would have already long since gotten their money.
The concern with used copies shouldn't be money, but principles and morals.
If you are "punishing" the devs by not buying this game then you are punishing every single person from whom you have decided not to buy something.
You are punishing me by not buying the chocolates I had to sell that one time in fourth grade. Shame on you. Now I am suffering.
You are punishing me by not buying the chocolates I had to sell that one time in fourth grade. Shame on you. Now I am suffering.
Team Bond is that u?
Developers are not waiting multiple years to get paid. At best you'd be talking about bonuses, but come on the person you are responding to put it pretty clearly.
My view on this matter is different. You are still financially supporting Rowling by engaging in the game and boosting its visibility and longevity. She rent seeks off the Harry Potter IP, the whole thing is a sheer numbers game at this point much like the Star Wars IP is through toys, tie ins, etc.
Granted people choosing to not consume any Harry Potter product, free or paid, will be a drop in a pond but there's something to be said about not supporting any product, even through unethical means of consumption if we want to go that route, by an IP holder that is using the financial gain from this IP to wage war against a minority group. We haven't really seen an author be like this before because most asshole IP holders are either really just IP trolls (Conan Doyle's estate) or are just privately assholes and don't directly throw their influence around because they don't care enough to.
There is no separating Rowling from Harry Potter until she sells the IP rights to someone like WB.
...I'm not a streamer. I'll be playing this game by myself, in my private apartment, on a tv that's not facing the window.
You're exactly right, which is why used selling and buying isn't considered fully ethical. You sound a little bothered that people have actual legitimate avenues to maneuver around directly supporting Rowling.
And you're still contributing to Harry Potter as a visible franchise by no doubt discussing and using the product on an Internet forum. She is still the IP holder with major influence over the IP, even if WB says otherwise. Boosting the product's signal in a way that doesn't specifically target just how much of a piece of garbage Rowling is still giving her influence.
I mean it when I don't believe there's an ethical means of consuming Harry Potter. Yes I am bothered because of how aggressive Rowling has been and the number of people trying to find excuses to try and seperate Rowling from Harry Potter. Until she sells and has no influence on the product or gains no influence from the product, there's no separating the two. Piracy or second hand buying doesn't change any of this, consuming and talking about Harry Potter in any way that doesn't bring attention to Rowling's shithousery is still producing influence for Rowling.
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I don't think they can't to be honest. She's basically the Lucas of that franchise, can't have one without the other, theoretically. Only thing they could do is to try and buy her out if they feel her views are affecting the franchise's pockets or if she miraculously decided to sell her rights to WB.
I wonder how much her rights could be worth? Can't be too crazy if Lucasfilms was 4b.
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It's a guarantee that she's going to get money from it. She still retains some level of rights over Harry Potter and that world, and will at least be getting some royalties from each HP project released.
As great as the game looks, I'm not giving her or her shitty views my money. I've been completely soured on the HP world because of her. 10 years ago, I would have lost my shit at this announcement. Instead, fuck JK Rowling. I don't know what it would take to get me back into the HP series, if that's even possible for me at this point, but it's tainted for me now. I can't even revisit the original books and movies anymore (I tried to watch one of the films, and I just couldn't get into it with that fun spirit that I used to before her shittiness came to light).
As great as the game looks, I'm not giving her or her shitty views my money. I've been completely soured on the HP world because of her. 10 years ago, I would have lost my shit at this announcement. Instead, fuck JK Rowling. I don't know what it would take to get me back into the HP series, if that's even possible for me at this point, but it's tainted for me now. I can't even revisit the original books and movies anymore (I tried to watch one of the films, and I just couldn't get into it with that fun spirit that I used to before her shittiness came to light).
Some people separate the artist from their work when it suits them. Look at how many people on this very website were bashing people who still listen to Kanye West's music. I wonder how many of them will be buying this game.
I have no issues with people who are going to be consistent, and always separate the artist from their work, but I have a feeling that isn't the majority of folks using that excuse.
On top, if things actually got to where WB was seriously trying to buy her out, I think Rowling's transphobia gets in the way of her actually accepting it. If she's going to get bought out, it's because WB is trying to move away from her transphobia, and post-sale that almost inevitably turns into some sort of gesture to the trans community on the part of the franchise.
(I don't really think Rowling and HP are separable at this point even with such a sale, but I also don't think a sale is remotely likely.)
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Whataboutism over Multiple Posts
Jk is no doubt a transphobic ass bag, but I find it odd how people won't buy the game because of that but are more than happy to pay out for a console that was made in a genoicadal forced labour camp.....
Where was the device you use to connect to this message board made?
You can enjoy the IP that she created while also shouting down her bullshit and shining a light on her bigotry. That why so many people (including myself) are looking for ways to either minimize or eliminate her financial benefits from the game. We love the series and it's lore, but we hate her and her bigotry. You can do both and as long as you aren't being a complete shit and dismissing or defending what she has said and done I don't see a problem with people trying to talk about the game and it's premise.
Especially when most people who are talking about it are also shitting on JK and her views in the same breath that they are using to praise the way the game looks and supposedly plays.
Surprised it took us 6 whole pages to get to the "bet you have an iPhone" portion of this carnival.
Honest question: what is the point of shining a light on her bigotry if you're also defending the freedom to enjoy the stuff she created, therefore giving her more money and power to continue to be a threat to trans people?
What do you expect people to do as a means to make a change when you expose her bigotry if your argument is accompanied by "But it's okay to buy her stuff"?
Yeah this. We don't care if she came up with ideas for it, we don't want to support her in any way.
Honestly it looks bland as hell anyways.
Except I'm not supporting buying her stuff? I've already said in multiple threads that even if the game is amazing and I end up feeling the need to play it that I would be either buying used, using Gamefly, or hoping that it comes to GamePass. And I have encouraged others to do the same if they feel like they need to play it.
You don't have to give her money in order to enjoy the game, talk about it, or even just discuss the IP in general.
I have no idea, it's old and out of date, and don't get me wrong, I buy stuff I shouldn't, most of my clothes were most likely made is sweatshops, the issue with having to buy cheap stuff I guess.
It's just that I find it odd where people's morals kick in, some times feels it's more about personal ego than doing what's right ( i.e not supporting racist slave labour or a transphobic shit brick)
Nostalgia doesn't and shouldn't govern how you behave now. People in the South are nostalgic about the Confederacy and Southern culture, doesn't mean they're right about trying to maintain the awful parts of their "heritage". The Confederates deserve to be removed and forgotten to the dust bin of history.
We can't do that with Harry Potter but there's no mandate to force you to consume Harry Potter. Its a consumerist product that begins and ends at specific points, it isn't an important person in your life giving you Stockholm Syndrome. You should be able to keep all the positive stuff you got out of the books with you and cut ties with the product because Rowling clearly isn't interested in doing it herself.
No you really can't so long as you are influencing people to keep consuming her IP (which you are by talking about playing the game). So long as she is benefiting from her connection to Harry Potter, she will forever be using that financial and social power to influence her bigoted views in public and political society.
You cannot separate Rowling from Harry Potter as unfortunate as it is. She isn't Lovecraft, who is long dead and buried, or Fleming, who is also long dead and buried. She's actively being militant against trans rights in real time on Twitter.
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Oh, I see. Personally, given user engagement is a valuable thing nowadays, not just sales, I will refrain from playing this game in any form. Because even the headline "Hogwarts Legacy had 3 million players during launch week" could drive sales, I would've inevitably been part of that number, inadvertently helping push the game's popularity further, even with a used/borrowed copy. Even talking about it on social media can lead to that, so I would suggest avoiding that as well.
I just don't think abunch of anonymous nobodies on a gaming forum talking about the game does much of anything for her. But that's just me though and I respect where you are coming from.
I am right there with you though on everything else. She can rot in a ditch for all I care. I just have too many fond memories of the series and it has had too much of an impact on my life to just drop the whole IP entirely. But I will do everything I can to make sure she doesn't get a dime from me. Despite loving the series I haven't bought any merch in years. I didn't even go see the Fantastic Beasts movies.
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I know and love trans people, including my girlfriend. Rowling's behavior and the horrible people it continues to enable has tainted any enjoyment I once got from the franchise. Even if she wasn't going to make money from it, I couldn't enjoy this anymore. She took that away about the fifth double down.
But apart from how played out the "you own a product, so not buying another product is hypocrisy" argument already is, it's especially confusing here.
Are you saying it's shocking and hypocritical that people feel a stronger emotional reaction to things that directly impacts either themselves or people they personally know, or do you somehow think most people on this forum don't even know a trans person and are just... virtue signaling? Is that the implication you're going with?