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NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,332
Valve's commitment to keeping illegitimate games off Steam has led to increased vigilance over the last six months. A series of restrictions put in place to ward off these so-called "fake games," however, has caught at least one totally real game in the crossfire.

The delightful musical adventure game Wandersong launched to cult acclaim in September and last week received several nods from the Independent Games Festival Awards. (It was also one of my personal favorites of 2018.) Yet Valve has marked it as under review, leaving players unable to access regular Steam features for it, like trading cards and achievements. It's the victim of a policy that launched last June, made to explicitly combat games that were intentionally "inflating achievement and game counts for users to display on their profiles."

A sidebar on Wandersong's store page includes a note that "Steam is learning about this game," which comes with a dialogue box to actually explain what that means.

"Until more players have interacted with it, some features will be restricted," it reads. The list includes limitations on achievements and items, as well as preventing players from adding it to their favorite games lists. All of these are meant to dissuade people from publishing games that serve no other purpose than to award players with stat-boosting achievements and the like.

Developer Greg Lobanov tells Polygon that Valve first flagged Wandersong when it launched in September; that its veracity remains under deliberation is a surprise.

"I figured it would clear soon, since, I mean... the game is obviously real ... and other games I checked that had launched just before us had passed ... so I left it at that," Lobanov says about the lacking Steam features, which first came to his attention in October. An automated message from the platform's support services assured him that all games went through this process, he tells us.

He now knows that's not quite the case. Even as user reviews climbed, pushing the game's review average to "very positive" (there are only three negative reviews out of 269 at time of writing), the Steam version of Wandersong remains at Valve's mercy.

More: https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/8/18173722/wandersong-steam-fake-game-restrictions

Mod edit:
It was a bug


UPDATE: Valve emailed us directly to say that this was actually a bug, and that us and many other games were perma-restricted by mistake. because we brought attention to it, they're now fixing it! hooray!
 
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sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
That's weird as hell and very disappointing. No wonder it's going under the radar. It can't just be because it hasn't sold a lot because there's plenty of games I feel like I've seen with far less reviews that haven't had an issue (though I admit I didn't know this as someone that owns Wandersong, so it's entirely possible I didn't notice it for others).

Probably got flagged one day and then forgotten about or something.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,876
"inflating achievement and game counts for users to display on their profiles."

Why is that even a big deal? I like achievements and all but Steam Achievements are the most useless. Do people care about those specific stats that much that Valve has to crack down on it?
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,666
Western Australia
Yes, Valve should manually review the game and approve it, but the notion that the game was flagged as "fake" is patently false. Unless your game is being published by a publisher with a known track record, your app will have to satisfy the requirements, and until then will exist in a sort-of-limbo where Steam is "learning" about the game.

Polygon gonna Polygon.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,590
"inflating achievement and game counts for users to display on their profiles."

Why is that even a big deal? I like achievements and all but Steam Achievements are the most useless. Do people care about those specific stats that much that Valve has to crack down on it?

It's probably not so much that Valve is cracking down on people inflating their game/achievement stats and more that the games that do this tend to be really low quality and thus should be buried.

Yes, Valve should manually review the game and approve it, but the notion that the game was flagged as "fake" is patently false. Unless your game is being published by a publisher with a known track record, your app will have to satisfy the requirements, and until then will exist in a sort-of-limbo where Steam is "learning" about the game.

Polygon gonna Polygon.

Well, okay then. What are the requirements? And why hasn't Wondersong met them? What can the game creator do to convince Valve's algorithm that it's a real game?

Also, yeah, the game has in fact been flagged as fake. You could say that all games are flagged as fake until Valve's algorithm is satisfied that they're not. But the review process is specifically targeted at fake games in Valve's own words.
 

Zen Hero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,628
Sounds like it's just a mistake in their automated spam protections systems. These things happen. I work on spam protections for an internet service, and false positives do happen from time to time.

Hopefully they can contact a human and get it fixed? Have they tried that?
 

Deleted member 43872

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 24, 2018
817
All games that release on Steam (except from significant publishers) are flagged by default, and are unflagged when the Mystery Algorithm is satisfied. It's misleading to say it was "slapped" with restrictions that everyone else has at first. The unusual part is that the restrictions haven't been removed yet. It shouldn't have taken a week for a game that's gotten as much attention as Wandersong, never mind months.
 

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,156
Yes, Valve should manually review the game and approve it, but the notion that the game was flagged as "fake" is patently false. Unless your game is being published by a publisher with a known track record, your app will have to satisfy the requirements, and until then will exist in a sort-of-limbo where Steam is "learning" about the game.

Polygon gonna Polygon.
How long does it normally take for games to pass the automated test? Is it random?
 

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,734
The restrictions happen to games from new devs/publishers until some metrics that determine if people see the game as a real game are met. What surprises me is how long it's taking this particular one to reach whatever those metrics are. I think Marble It Up still doesn't have achievements for this reason too.

How long does it normally take for games to pass the automated test? Is it random?

We don't know what they take into account (this is to protect against bad actors gaming the system as they often do), but it's probably based on seeing if the game has buyers from accounts who typically buy real games, reviews, game updates, etc.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
How long does it normally take for games to pass the automated test? Is it random?

Nobody knows the algorythm yet. We can only glean what we know from context clues. Certain amounts of buyers, certain amounts of reviews, etc. If 90 percent of reviews are flagged with "I received this product for free" or redeemed via key redemption, that sort of thing.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,876
Weird claim.
They are exactly like any other form of achievements: pointless and no one gives a shit about them, but somewhat useful to gather statistics and amusing for the player unlocking them.

That's just me. Probably because to me it's easier to view them on other platforms and, in the case of Xbox, the numerical value they have adds something to it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
Sounds like it's just a mistake in their automated spam protections systems. These things happen. I work on spam protections for an internet service, and false positives do happen from time to time.
Exactly. And yet somehow I'm not surprised with Polygon coming out with another article that reeks of "hit piece" against the service, since they have a history of doing so.

Hopefully they can contact a human and get it fixed? Have they tried that?
The developer himself claimed that they didn't, expecting the algorithm to sort things quickly. Which didn't happen.
Then again, unlike the Polygon writer, they seem quick to point on their twitter that this is not particularly a big deal and the game is doing fine.
 

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,156
That's just me. Probably because to me it's easier to view them and, in the case of Xbox, the numerical value they have adds something to it.
I for one am pretty different. I don't care too much about the big number on Xbox but Steam has a % complete of all your games that I really dig. So I try to get that number higher. To each their own and all that.
 

Deleted member 43872

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 24, 2018
817
Weird claim.
They are exactly like any other form of achievements: pointless and no one gives a shit about them, but somewhat useful to gather statistics and amusing for the player unlocking them.
I don't care much about achievements, but RyanW isn't wrong. Steam achievements don't contribute to any meta system like platinum trophies or gamerscore, and because there aren't any standards or restrictions for how achievements should be implemented, developers are free to put hundreds of achievements in a $1 game and use that as a selling point. All achievements are pointless, but Steam achievements are the most pointless.
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,666
Western Australia
Well, okay then. What are the requirements? And why hasn't Wondersong met them? What can the game creator do to convince Valve's algorithm that it's a real game?

The metric isn't public, presumably because it being known would result in bad actors attempting to game the system, thereby potentially undoing the incremental measures Valve has taken to expunge such developers from the store.

As for your second question, the developer of Wandersong can contact the Steam Team directly* and plead its case. Whether that will be successful, however, I cannot say.

* Requires Steamworks access.

How long does it normally take for games to pass the automated test? Is it random?

The specifics are unknown.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
11
To add, as far as discoverability, I don't believe this tag has any meaningful effect on that. During the sale, this game showed up in one of my discovery queues.

Game looked cute, but I had passed. I had some slight disappointment when it said use singing to beat things, and I was kinda hoping it'd actually accept user vocal input. Though it probably would not be as fun/funny as I imagine it that way.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,876
I for one am pretty different. I don't care too much about the big number on Xbox but Steam has a % complete of all your games that I really dig. So I try to get that number higher. To each their own and all that.

Now that's a pretty cool stat. I want to say Xbox One has that but I'd have to check when I get home
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
I don't care much about achievements, but RyanW isn't wrong. Steam achievements don't contribute to any meta system like platinum trophies or gamerscore.
Mh-mh. Which add... exactly what?

All achievements are pointless, but Steam achievements are the most pointless.
Eh, and yet they are basically the only ones I pay any attention to. Funny that.
Of course, it's my personal bias. As it goes for you.
 

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,156
I don't care much about achievements, but RyanW isn't wrong. Steam achievements don't contribute to any meta system like platinum trophies or gamerscore, and because there aren't any standards or restrictions for how achievements should be implemented, developers are free to put hundreds of achievements in a $1 game and use that as a selling point. All achievements are pointless, but Steam achievements are the most pointless.
And yet I don't care about trophies or xbox achievements and care quite a bit about Steam achievements.

Mh-mh. Which add... exactly what?


Eh, and yet they are basically the only ones I pay any attention to. Funny that.
Of course, it's my personal bias. As it goes for you.
My man.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,585
Seattle, WA
Weird that Valve can't manually flag the game for the sake of its cheevos, but also, this is entirely designed to prevent brand-new "publishers" on Steam from dumping trading-card currencies onto the platform. It's a dumb fix for a VERY dumb problem that Steam itself invented. But it doesn't look like that is preventing Wandersong from appearing on various sales charts or otherwise performing, right? As in, this could be much worse.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,108
Valve attempts soft curation and a game falls afoul of its efforts. It's not surprising, because obviously they aren't doing this shit by hand. Still, it's too bad that such an obviously high effort and critically acclaimed game is currently not having a great experience with the system. The author said they reached out to valve, but doesn't say whether they got a response. Hopefully this article brings this to light and Valve fixes it.
Mh-mh. Which add... exactly what?
They unify it to some degree and attempt to provide some shallow representation of how much time you've spent doing shit across different games on the platform.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,798
If Steam is still learning about the game, doesn't it mean that not enough people have bought it? I don't know what that line is, but that's how I recall the new rules being explained?

It's a shame, but nevertheless, this is the default for any game that launches on steam that isn't from a publisher; the idea that it's been targeted as a fake game is misleading. Great job Polygon.

Edit: seen JaseC's post, so the specifics aren't public, so yeah I imagine that it's not been so popular yet on Steam, by whatever metrics they're using.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,108
Right. So like any other achievement system on any other platform, including Steam.
You're totally right, I'd forgotten about the Achievements add-on panel to Steam profiles which includes a running count of your total.

It's even the one I have selected for the top of my own profile!

DbIHMoW.png
 
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justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Good to see it solved. And only took 4 months, hurray!

Glad he's not obligated to go to another store front to launch it because those others are evil and making PC game worse just by providing an alternative. That would end it all! /s
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
Yes, Valve should manually review the game and approve it, but the notion that the game was flagged as "fake" is patently false. Unless your game is being published by a publisher with a known track record, your app will have to satisfy the requirements, and until then will exist in a sort-of-limbo where Steam is "learning" about the game.

Polygon gonna Polygon.
Didn't think mods here stooped to the level of publication/journalist trolling and callouts (while also being wrong). Valve's policy relating to this is about games that are fake. The fake or real policy impacted this game, period.
 

CharMomone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
380
Games that are niche or fly under the radar take longer to be considered legit, so consider it fake until proven real.

A game from a niche series I enjoyed was released in January last year and only just today was enabled to allow steam trading cards and backgrounds/emoticons.
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,666
Western Australia
Didn't think mods here stooped to the level of publication/journalist trolling and callouts (while also being wrong). Valve's policy relating to this is about games that are fake. The fake or real policy impacted this game, period.

Perhaps my playful jab was unfair (I'm sure Polygon does good work in general, but this isn't the first time it has misreported something Steam-related), but, again, while Valve should have manually reviewed the game and approved it, the implication it was determined to be a fake game isn't accurate. It wasn't "slapped" with the restrictions, it didn't fail internal reviews, and its legitimacy as a product wasn't debated; they existed by default and remained in place because the threshold had yet to be met (bug aside).

To be perfectly clear, that's the only part of the article I take issue with. I absolutely agree there should be a system in place that accounts for these situations, whereby a legitimate developer can request a review of their game and, if successful, have it ticked off as a fully-fledged product.
 
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dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,577
They should go and try to publish their game on Epic Store.

On topic: Every automated system will have hitches but if it is 1:1000 case I don't see an issue. They informed Valve, Valve looked into it and told them it is a bug and fix is on the way.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Good to see it solved. And only took 4 months, hurray!

Glad he's not obligated to go to another store front to launch it because those others are evil and making PC game worse just by providing an alternative. That would end it all! /s


I'll take a dive at your comment:
-No one is telling "Everything should be Steam only". People are saying "It should be everywhere".
-If this game was on Epic Store (which isn't a given), they would have no reviews, no achievements, no trading cards either.

If you want to make a stupid point, at least check your facts.

And no, at no point the game was flagged as fake. What the hell are people going on about here ?
 

RionaaM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
But I thought all the Steambois were eager to tell us that it was just the normal process and no attention should be brought to it?

Even if it wasn't a bug, lol at the idea that there's a meaningful distinction between "Valve did this" and "Valve's algorithm did this."
I mean, this is clearly what people complaining about Steam want: more checks for new games. Don't forget that many of them are angry about those so-called "asset flips" and "fake games", and want them curated. Well, this is the result. Games are treated as non-legit until they prove not to be, whatever that proof may be. It's a shame that honest devs get caught in the crossfire, but don't pretend nobody asked for this.

For the record, I wish Valve would assign more employees for support and manual tasks, because algorithms alone aren't enough. But something like this was inevitable, and it could have happened even with pure manual curation.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
I'll take a dive at your comment:
-No one is telling "Everything should be Steam only". People are saying "It should be everywhere".
-If this game was on Epic Store (which isn't a given), they would have no reviews, no achievements, no trading cards either.

If you want to make a stupid point, at least check your facts.

And no, at no point the game was flagged as fake. What the hell are people going on about here ?
Ok, so no epic store either, only like 5 other store fronts that offer achievements to choose now. Want me to check this too?

But let's check these facts:
  • mechanism made to prevent "fake games" flagged this game as suspicious.
  • The dev said something was wrong.
  • Valve admitted something was indeed wrong.
  • People accusing valve of messing up don't know what they are talking about
One of these is false. As a hint to which one, let's reflect upon this: when YouTube flag a video, the creator can always pledge a review. The ad money is not lost, only withhold till the review. The system is automatic and applies to all videos. When video get flagged, people start to throw accusations on "YouTube copyright policies", but this is not exactly what happens in this case.

There is no way of taking issue with how valve is being portrayed in this case and not taking issue of how YouTube is portrayed in those cases without being clearly biased, to say the least.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Ok, so no epic store either, only like 5 other store fronts that offer achievements to choose now. Want me to check this too?

But let's check these facts:
  • mechanism made to prevent "fake games" flagged this game as suspicious.
  • The dev said something was wrong.
  • Valve admitted something was indeed wrong.
  • People accusing valve of messing up don't know what they are talking about
One of these is false. As a hint to which one, let's reflect upon this: when YouTube flag a video, the creator can always pledge a review. The ad money is not lost, only withhold till the review. The system is automatic and applies to all videos. When video get flagged, people start to throw accusations on "YouTube copyright policies", but this is not exactly what happens in this case.

There is no way of taking issue with how valve is being portrayed in this case and not taking issue of how YouTube is portrayed in those cases without being clearly biased, to say the least.


You can check. That doesn't change the first point: Who in the world complained that there's more choice ? If anything, people complained about storefronts REMOVING choice. You only listen to what you want... Or you're doing it on purpose maybe ?

It wasn't flagged as suspicious. It was flagged as on hold for a few features. Nothing was withold here.
The game was still sold, the money was still handed, the game was still listed. Its visibility wasn't hurt by that. So yeah, you are right: "This is not what happens in this case".
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Did this developer actually call Valve about this issue? Or did he rather contact Polygon so they could write another shitty article about Valve?
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Good to see it solved. And only took 4 months, hurray!

Glad he's not obligated to go to another store front to launch it because those others are evil and making PC game worse just by providing an alternative. That would end it all! /s
This makes no sense whatsoever.
First off, people don't complain about the Epic store as a alternative, they complain because it's the exact opposite of that.

Second, of all the features gated by this system, the Epic store offers exactly 0 (ZERO) of them. Not to mention they don't offer anything at all to 99.9% of indie games at all, not even a store page, because that's how their shitty curation works.

What took 4 months for Valve to fix was a bug that is now fixed.
Epic has this as the default system by design

Suggesting Epic store seriously as a alternative here shows that you didn't read anything and just wanted to shitpost or that you have a really poor understanding of this
 
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GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Everytime a new storefront is announced and someone comments " great, another launcher...", people are doing exactly that.

? I'm not a native English speaker, but isn't this the contradictory?


Nothing was withold as for money nor visibility, which was the point you made with Youtube, which was witholding money. In fact, I was wrong: Achievements aren't even withold. They just dont contribute to your score as of now.
So yeah.. Trading cards were on hold.

And no, people aren't complaining about new storefronts. They are complaining about new launchers. New launchers relying on exclusives rather than features. What people wants: Everything available everywhere.
I'll make it simple for you:
unknown.png
 

KratosEnergyDrink

Using an alt account to circumvent a ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
Did this developer actually call Valve about this issue? Or did he rather contact Polygon so they could write another shitty article about Valve?

This issue should not be a thing anyway, if Valve was willing to spend a little money on quality control and developer support for smaller indies instead of cringe before the big publishers.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
This issue should not be a thing anyway, if Valve was willing to spend a little money on quality control and developer support for smaller indies instead of cringe before the big publishers.


No issue should ever be a thing anyway. And the situation right now is the less worse out of all situations. If anything, the lack of curation as you and many people whine about was about caring about smaller indie devs and giving them as much chance of success as the big publishers.
 

Deleted member 2840

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,400
People should understand that the game wasn't considered "fake" by their algorithms.
The bug in particular was a store page one. As per Nathan Grayson's article:

Valve then discovered the real culprit: a bug that prevented store pages from updating. Wandersong and a handful of other games had, in fact, survived Steam's scrutiny and earned the ornery old storefront's trust, but it wasn't registering. This was why Wandersong could release trading cards despite ostensible limitations, but couldn't be featured in Steam users' profiles.

Also the bug was fixed yesterday already.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Nothing was withold as for money nor visibility, which was the point you made with Youtube, which was witholding money. In fact, I was wrong: Achievements aren't even withold. They just dont contribute to your score as of now.
So yeah.. Trading cards were on hold.

And no, people aren't complaining about new storefronts. They are complaining about new launchers. New launchers relying on exclusives rather than features. What people wants: Everything available everywhere.
I'll make it simple for you:
unknown.png
Uplay is optional but I already saw people hating it too, even when all it's done is give free games and points to use in dlc's.

But this tool on the pic looks interesting, what it is?

This makes no sense whatsoever.
First off, people don't complain about the Epic store as a alternative, they complain because it's the exact opposite of that.

Second, of all the features gated by this system, the Epic store offers exactly 0 (ZERO) of them. Not to mention they don't offer anything at all to 99.9% of indie games at all, not even a store page, because that's how their shitty curation works.

What took 4 months for Valve to fix was a bug that is now fixed.
Epic has this as the default system by design

Suggesting Epic store seriously as a alternative here shows that you didn't read anything and just wanted to shitpost or that you have a really poor understanding of this

The time you took to go back and edit your post should have been used to actually read the rest of the thread.