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Oct 25, 2017
7,141
Like if you and your friends enjoy describing graphic sex scenes (including sexual violence as I see a few posts above) props but I'm not comfortable with doing that, that's not fun for me, and tbh that's gross.

Maybe i'm a prude but whatever
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,928
The look on their faces the whole time just ups how uncomfortable this is. What a weird situation
Says it all really
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Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Like the apology is whatever and fine and all but.... how does this ever seem like a good idea what on earth
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Like if you and your friends enjoy describing graphic sex scenes (including sexual violence as I see a few posts above) props but I'm not comfortable with doing that, that's not fun for me, and tbh that's gross.

Maybe i'm a prude but whatever
Are people actually defending this though?
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,296
New York
Like if you and your friends enjoy describing graphic sex scenes (including sexual violence as I see a few posts above) props but I'm not comfortable with doing that, that's not fun for me, and tbh that's gross.

Maybe i'm a prude but whatever

Word. I am not prude but to me that shit is just corny. If folks like doing it, that's fine. Enjoy. But c'mon, gotta discuss it with folks before. Dude's apology seemed like it just didn't occur to him to maybe possible inquire beforehand if this would be a good look or not.

....and you're streaming this publicly?!?!
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,525
If you're as well prepped and experienced as the GM supposedly is...

Can't help but feel he knew exactly what he was doing.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
I feel so bad for Elspeth, she's got a fun stream and seems like a cool person.

At the end of the day it's supposed to be a fun game between friends. Sexual violence will 100% be game-endingly awkward at best. Even plain old sex will be awkward as hell if actually described.

And also know that players are not entirely separate from their characters. Events that can change or have a drastic effect on a character should be discussed, it's just common sense.
 

Lord Vatek

Banned
Jan 18, 2018
21,507
I've never played DnD (or equivalent) in my life but discussing any potentially sexual content with the players beforehand is basic common sense.

That is ridiculously socially-unaware (not to mention creepy) to do otherwise.
 

Surface of Me

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,207
The way the dude describes it is just so graphic and creepy. "Wide eyes" "I'll be gentle, just a little at first". He's describing an adult molesting a child. I understand the premise of the joke, "lol robot orgasm", but he just really missed the mark and kept going.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
I don't DM anymore but when I did I generally avoided involving sexual content with players. Players dedicate a lot of time and effort into their characters and stories and it sucks when that all gets ruined because only fucker had some uncomfortable fantasy he felt like dragging the others into.

Granted it was mostly RPG sites so these people were relatively strangers to me. The pressure as a player to not say anything when this happens is much worse on a stream like that.
 

bitsykibbles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
308
Sexual and Raunchy DnD campaigns exist, but usually the group of players drive the campaign there with DM/GM approval.
It's usually never the DM/GM initiative in my experience.

His inability/unwillingness to read the room and change course on the fly is very apparent. I haven't seen other episodes of the campaign, and honestly I can't sit through hours long RP unless I'm involved somehow, but I will say this particular snapshot came off as creepy as intended. He wanted to go there, and he was directing the narrative with a character that clearly didn't understand it was becoming kinda creepy sexual.

Commentary about the robot acquiescing (Youtube and Reddit) isn't taking into account that these people are actually Role Playing. The players were disgusted, but Elspeth remained in character to ride it out hoping (I'm assuming) that he would have the sense and tact to not go there in front of a LIVE AUDIENCE for what would be preserved on the internet for what I assume is all of time. (You put it out there on the internet, it really takes a LONG time to go away.)

A professional, social media connected, influencer that makes their living by being an internet persona that is decently known doesn't want this associated with their "brand". It's a bad look and could wind up denying you vital sponsorships among other things.

Plus it's just icky to not know this is going to happen and have to on the spot either take a stand and walk out or simply sit there and endure it as Elspeth did.

What's really disgusting is the extreme vitriol expressed towards Vana and Elspeth from youtube comments, but I suppose no surprise...
 
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nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Just watched the stream to try and figure out what it was all about.

I'm pretty shocked tbh. Why would that ever have been ok??
 

LazyLain

Member
Jan 17, 2019
6,486
Although I'd like to believe Adam's a decent guy, it's difficult trying to muster a particularly charitable interpretation of this incident. At least the apology seems relatively sincere, though I'd completely understand if Elspeth isn't nearly as satisfied with it as fans might be.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
Apart from being competely an idiot for going there in the first place, IMO, he broke the cardinal rule of running games and didn't ask the player "what do you do?" when it became apparent the NPC was up to something.

I never have any sex stuff in my games, maybe an odd joke but no scenes, not sure what people get from role-playing that in front of others.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,495
Apart from being competely an idiot for going there in the first place, IMO, he broke the cardinal rule of running games and didn't ask the player "what do you do?" when it became apparent the NPC was up to something.

I never have any sex stuff in my games, maybe an odd joke but no scenes, not sure what people get from role-playing that in front of others.
RPGs and and sex is just messed up. It's gross, it's weird, it's pointless, just don't.
 

Axon

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
2,397
That was awful. I feel sorry for the other players. A really shitty move from the GM. And on some level Im sure he had to know that this was a bad idea, surely?
 

FusedAtoms

Member
Jul 21, 2018
3,590
What a dumbass , most important thing as a DM is to know your players.

Ik for a fact my group wouldn't give a shit about something like this but even then I still wouldn't throw it at them
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
Man, my only exposure to DnD is The Adventure Zone, which is mostly comedic and plays pretty fast and loose with the rules. I'd never even considered the possibility of gross scenes like this in a tabletop game.

I can see how explaining stuff in advance could feel frustrating as the person constructing the story. If you tell the group upfront "You're going to have this specific thing happen to you at some point" you're not going to get as genuine of a reaction to the event when it eventually occurs. But goddamn, I have zero experience with running tabletop games and it's pretty damn obvious that springing "You're now being raped, what do you do?" on someone is horrible.

I know nothing about this guy, but the fact he felt comfortable doing this on a livestream makes me wonder how often he's put people in similar situations in private. I can't imagine showing up to what's supposed to a fun evening of playing a game with friends and then having to improv a reaction to sexual assault in front of a group.

RPGs and and sex is just messed up. It's gross, it's weird, it's pointless, just don't.

Yeah, I don't exactly consider myself a prude, but I really don't see the appeal of hanging out with your friends describing detailed sex acts you're performing on each other's fantasy characters, seems beyond awkward.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,217
Oh yikes, I've luckily never had experiences with this with table top games, but most stories I've heard were from players trying to be nasty vile things and the DM either just letting it happen or stopping it, never have I seen a DM people so much of an idiot to do this with no consent for the players.

I've never understood why games like D&D, Shadowrun, GURPS etc have rules for this sort of thing in the first place, it only ever seems to be used for arseholes and it's just needless, why include it?

Also I shouldn't have read the comments on the Polygon article... So many people missing the point...
 

JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,531
He really should have talked to them about this before, full stop, and not proceeded with the idea if they weren't comfortable with it.

Failing that, he also could have stopped this relatively early on and immediately changed tracks to something else.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Man, my only exposure to DnD is The Adventure Zone, which is mostly comedic and plays pretty fast and loose with the rules. I'd never even considered the possibility of gross scenes like this in a tabletop game.

I can see how explaining stuff in advance could feel frustrating as the person constructing the story. If you tell the group upfront "You're going to have this specific thing happen to you at some point" you're not going to get as genuine of a reaction to the event when it eventually occurs. But goddamn, I have zero experience with running tabletop games and it's pretty damn obvious that springing "You're now being raped, what do you do?" on someone is horrible.

I know nothing about this guy, but the fact he felt comfortable doing this on a livestream makes me wonder how often he's put people in similar situations in private. I can't imagine showing up to what's supposed to a fun evening of playing a game with friends and then having to improv a reaction to sexual assault in front of a group.



Yeah, I don't exactly consider myself a prude, but I really don't see the appeal of hanging out with your friends describing detailed sex acts you're performing on each other's fantasy characters, seems beyond awkward.

The polygon article mentions directly, but there are systems developed so that GMs can easily have these conversations without necessarily revealing plans. The most popular is to give players a sort of safe word that can be used to stop an interaction. Just having it there makes people more aware that this is something they've all agreed they can opt out of. Even others just have the conversations before the game starts about what's off the table entirely or which sensitive things can be part of the game but not gone into in graphic detail. For example there might be sensitive topics one isn't aware of in someone's past that aren't even related to sexual assault that they might not be ready to encounter in a game setting in front of others. Having players establish what they aren't okay with means everyone is on the same page without anyone having to reveal plans. It feels especially necessary for people who have to do this live in front of strangers.
 
Far Verona season 2 cancellation announcement
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Here's the Far Verona season 2 cancellation announcement, it was admitted that no safety measures were implemented for the role-playing game, both the GM and the producer who is itmeJP both own up to that with itmeJP saying he didn't even think the scenario that livestreamed in what is now the finale episode for season 2 could even happen:

 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
The polygon article mentions directly, but there are systems developed so that GMs can easily have these conversations without necessarily revealing plans. The most popular is to give players a sort of safe word that can be used to stop an interaction. Just having it there makes people more aware that this is something they've all agreed they can opt out of. Even others just have the conversations before the game starts about what's off the table entirely or which sensitive things can be part of the game but not gone into in graphic detail. For example there might be sensitive topics one isn't aware of in someone's past that aren't even related to sexual assault that they might not be ready to encounter in a game setting in front of others. Having players establish what they aren't okay with means everyone is on the same page without anyone having to reveal plans. It feels especially necessary for people who have to do this live in front of strangers.

It still feels like some topics should just be out of consideration in front of a live audience. Even in a small group setting I can imagine there being a lot of pressure not to use a safe word because you're ending the scene. If there's a ton of people watching, how uncomfortable do you have to get before you say "I know the audience is invested in the story, this is a tense moment that people are likely really tuned into, but I need to end it." That shouldn't be something you're having to wrestle with on camera. Even if it's not live, that pressure of "Do I allow the story go on as intended, or do I potentially throw a gear in the works but shutting this down in the moment."

I know DnD relies on a lot of improv so maybe it wouldn't be that big of a deal to the audience, DM, and other players, I don't really know. But it seems like a shitty situation.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,378
What the fuck am I reading?

Had to get more context than the article gave....ive clearly been left behind by the internet.
Watched the stream.....what the fuck am I watching?
What the fuck am I hearing?

Im out this def needed to be cancelled.
 

Quiksaver

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,022
Yikes

Dude is a creepster, and a seasoned DM no less, wow, talk about rolling a natural 1 on real life

My deepest sympathies to anyone affected by this
 

Lord Fagan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,367
His totally oblivious laughing while his players are sitting there on camera aghast at his narration makes me wonder if there's some other shoe to drop regarding all of this.

The whole, "whoops, I don't know what I was thinking," apology just makes absolutely no sense.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
His totally oblivious laughing while his players are sitting there on camera aghast at his narration makes me wonder if there's some other shoe to drop regarding all of this.

The whole, "whoops, I don't know what I was thinking," apology just makes absolutely no sense.

That laughing from the GM while the players are sitting there very clearly highly uncomfortable with the scenario he created had me immediately going "WTF is wrong with this dude?!?!"
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,072
Here's the Far Verona season 2 cancellation announcement, it was admitted that no safety measures were implemented for the role-playing game, both the GM and the producer who is itmeJP both own up to that with itmeJP saying he didn't even think the scenario that livestreamed in what is now the finale episode for season 2 could even happen:


Safety measures? What the fuck? The only safety measure he needed was to use his fucking brain and not narrarate a rape of one of the players characters.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,495
Man, my only exposure to DnD is The Adventure Zone, which is mostly comedic and plays pretty fast and loose with the rules. I'd never even considered the possibility of gross scenes like this in a tabletop game.

I can see how explaining stuff in advance could feel frustrating as the person constructing the story. If you tell the group upfront "You're going to have this specific thing happen to you at some point" you're not going to get as genuine of a reaction to the event when it eventually occurs. But goddamn, I have zero experience with running tabletop games and it's pretty damn obvious that springing "You're now being raped, what do you do?" on someone is horrible.

I know nothing about this guy, but the fact he felt comfortable doing this on a livestream makes me wonder how often he's put people in similar situations in private. I can't imagine showing up to what's supposed to a fun evening of playing a game with friends and then having to improv a reaction to sexual assault in front of a group.



Yeah, I don't exactly consider myself a prude, but I really don't see the appeal of hanging out with your friends describing detailed sex acts you're performing on each other's fantasy characters, seems beyond awkward.
that's it right there. I'm not a prude at all, been around the block a few times and back again, but that's it: it's weird, pointless, awkward and narratively a dead end.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Oh yikes, I've luckily never had experiences with this with table top games, but most stories I've heard were from players trying to be nasty vile things and the DM either just letting it happen or stopping it, never have I seen a DM people so much of an idiot to do this with no consent for the players.

I've never understood why games like D&D, Shadowrun, GURPS etc have rules for this sort of thing in the first place, it only ever seems to be used for arseholes and it's just needless, why include it?

Also I shouldn't have read the comments on the Polygon article... So many people missing the point...

They don't have rules specifically for sexual assault etc, that doesn't stop people from making some up.

Lately players and game makers have been creating "systems" to avoid such issues. Like colored card you can toss down onto the table if it's making you uncomfortable thus making the DM stop what's going on. Or a pre-game sheet tbats filled out telling the DM what subjects to avoid (like rape).
 

Deleted member 55966

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 15, 2019
1,231
I couldn't make it through that whole interaction...just incredibly gross. There's a reason sexual assault is scaring. I can't imagine making your players sit through that.
 

CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
It seems strange to me that he couldn't read the room in that situation. Why was it even included in the game? I have been playing for nearly 30 years and not once in any game have we ever entered the territory that was shown here.
 
Nov 13, 2017
9,537
Considering how hard Koebel himself advocated for Session 0 discussions and the amount of time spent on writeups on the subject, I'm completely shocked at how shitty of a job he did reading the room.

For those of you who need context, here's the clip in question.

Starts at about 1:16:07 onwards.



This was far less graphic/sexual than the thread lead me to believe, but so freaking awkward to watch/listen to. I didn't even know Dungeons and Dragons on audio was a thing.