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Polygon: CDPR responds to sexualized trans advertisement in CyberPunk 2077 (Read Staff Post Before Posting)
- Thread starter BAD
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Maybe because at E3 in America they couldn't even show nudity?
MS doesn't even let you swear at their conference and you think explicitly sexual themes are going to fly at a trade show?
Like it or not if you want to see the explicit stuff, you'll probably have to wait for reviews or even hands-on nearer release/at release.
But we've barely seen the game.
That's what I'm thinking.
any amount of plausible deniability would let them off the hook for lots of folks
literally anything short of open and blatant bigotry would be enough really
Staff Post: Discussion Guidelines (read before posting)
Official Staff Communication
As this thread continues, we want to remind everyone of some expectations we laid out in the previous thread on this subject.
Mainstream culture is shared by everyone, including marginalized and minority groups. Because this culture is shared between people with many different identities and backgrounds, people may have unique observations, thoughts, or concerns about what they see and consume. Our relationship to culture is personal and these points of view should be treated with dignity and respect.
Furthermore, it is important to understand that simply observing and discussing culture is not necessarily an attack or a call to action. Don't ascribe notions of outrage or fury to people just having a conversation about something that occurs to them. Surely even those who are most concerned about the imagery would favor an outcome that lays their concerns to rest.
However, just because some context has been given on the imagery doesn't mean people won't still have different reactions to its presence. The fetishization of LGBT people is something the community has always contended with and having a conversation about when and how it manifests is perfectly reasonable. Let's keep this thread on track and stay respectful and thoughtful to one another.
Mainstream culture is shared by everyone, including marginalized and minority groups. Because this culture is shared between people with many different identities and backgrounds, people may have unique observations, thoughts, or concerns about what they see and consume. Our relationship to culture is personal and these points of view should be treated with dignity and respect.
Furthermore, it is important to understand that simply observing and discussing culture is not necessarily an attack or a call to action. Don't ascribe notions of outrage or fury to people just having a conversation about something that occurs to them. Surely even those who are most concerned about the imagery would favor an outcome that lays their concerns to rest.
However, just because some context has been given on the imagery doesn't mean people won't still have different reactions to its presence. The fetishization of LGBT people is something the community has always contended with and having a conversation about when and how it manifests is perfectly reasonable. Let's keep this thread on track and stay respectful and thoughtful to one another.
Yes. But we can't just say that and ignore the reality of how Cyberpunk 2077 is being presented to us now. Because it's just as unfair and harmful. You can't serve Cyberpunk 2077 as straight male gaze that frames race and LGBT issues in modern bigoted stereotypes because it appeals to a broader audience and then say to vulnerable groups, "Don't worry, the full game doesn't do that. It's for you, too!"
Didn't this image only blow up because it was used in a screenshot for a graphics card demonstration?
It doesn't seem like they were highlighting this ad more than anything else in the game. It just happened to be in the screenshot. I imagine if somebody went through the frames of other Cyberpunk footage, this ad would pop up somewhere in the background. It just wasn't noticed until now.
Seems like a legit answer. The big problem with this entire situation was CDPR past twitter history. If it wasn't for those stupid hateful tweets I feel the response and context would quite different. I'm glad they adressed the issue so fast.
I'm not sure that making an offensvie advertisement in a game actually does make any meaningful commentary on the subject beyond just spreading the narrative around further. She says that her intention is to show that "Hypersexualization in advertisements is just terrible" while at the same she is talking about how sexy she finds the person in the ad. I fail to see how an advertisment with "Mix it up" "Chromanticure" and a bulge that is not represented when men are sexualized are really making the statement that she thinks that it is.
The constant sexualization and fetishization that trans people have faced throughout society should probably be handled with a bit more nuance than whatever kind of reasoning this is as contributing to the problem does not increase empathy in any way and only further alienates us.
i'm buying it, but lets hope this is the last megathread on CDPR potentially fucking up like this, as this was a legit cause for concern.
If her name is Kasia then she's certainly Polish, so... nope.
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Seems reasonable to me, people are quick to get angry but lets wait and see how the game is.
Sounds like a well thought out and intentioned decision, in a bubble. Just as the context layer out matters, so does and will the context and tone of the entire game.
In this instance it doesn't seem like the intention was to punch down. That's great. Hopefully the rest of the game and it's depictions can hold to that.
In this instance it doesn't seem like the intention was to punch down. That's great. Hopefully the rest of the game and it's depictions can hold to that.
Already happened.
I really need to finish this game and the Blade Runner game. I'm finding that I really don't like point and click adventures no matter how good the story.
Seems like a great response and I understand their vision. But if trans people feel uncomfortable about the way they are represented that is still a problem. Is there a way to achieve CDPR's vision of megacorporations hypersexualizing all people in advertisements without making trans people feel marginalized/fetishized?
Aye, which is part of the reason it works so well. If that's what Cyberpunk ends up being you can count on me singing its praises. I'm just not too hopeful yet, personally and I still have a problem with parts of this game's marketing.
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So in essence "in the future, shit's still fucked up, corporations are still scummy, there is still of problematic shit to go around, and despite some advances in social norms there is still racism and sexism and all kinds of awful stuff that exists today."
I'm okay with that. I do think, though, that they should have chosen to omit the imagery from any/all promo material (including nVidia's RT marketing) so that the audience can understand the context through how the game presents the world when we are playing it rather than just seeing it in a screenshot with no explanation or framing.
I'm okay with that. I do think, though, that they should have chosen to omit the imagery from any/all promo material (including nVidia's RT marketing) so that the audience can understand the context through how the game presents the world when we are playing it rather than just seeing it in a screenshot with no explanation or framing.
Already happened.
I legitimately completely forgot about that game and also I do think Kojima is weirder these days so a new version would probably be crazier.
It's not just that CDPR has a history of weirdly transphobic tweeting, though that does cost them the benefit of the doubt. The depiction is so graphic and juvenile, there's a flippancy to their depiction that they haven't earned. There's a version of this content that would work really well, but this example is sabotaged by poor execution and a reputation that correctly raises doubts on CDPRs intentions.
I'm ok with this response, even given the wider context around CDPR. Some people will be unhappy, and that's ok. Ultimately, they have a cogent, plausible reason prepared. This wasn't something borne out of pure ignorance or fetishization.
I think a lot of this comes down to communication. Especially if you're a company with a history of posting transphobic tweets to your official accounts, you may wan to think about releasing a statement like this before you release potentially controversial imagery. And, of course, apologising for said transphobic tweets might be a good idea, as well. But there are certainly examples of game studios taking on controversial subjects without starting giant shitstorms or triggering outrage. A recent example would be Ninja Theory with Hellblade.
I don't get how it's transphobic.
The explanation here is that in a world more accepting of all gender identities, a wider variety of those identities become sexualized for the purpose of marketing. This feels like the opposite of transphobia.
I'm not discounting that, but my point was the image was shown ANY context around it. When you remove all context from the imagery you're going to be in this situation where it's subjected to questioning and outrage. NVIDIA and CDPR should have known better about using it removed from the context of the story.
They had a message in mind but some Era members told me that media never has a statement or message. 🤔
They didn't show this on stage whatsoever. The piece of art in question is from a screenshot provided by Nvidia, and zoomed in like 500% so you can even see it.
I see nothing wrong with it. She's acknowledging that gender is a large spectrum.
I couldn't say that as eloquently in Polish, so I won't blame the Polish woman for not getting it perfect.
While I think this is a good response, I really can't blame people for "jumping on the hate bandwagon", thats something CDPR did to themselves with the string of terrible pr stuff. I blame CDPR for that, and can totally understand people assuming the worst. I just hope this kind of stuff is the direction most of the game will be in.
Media provokes different reactions with different people. I can't and will never be able to speak for trans folk, but as a gay man I can say there has been content in the past which was homophobic for many; and I did not agree at all with the notion it was. And that's fine. Reverse too, of course.
The thing with this issue is that some people are trying to make this an objective problem everyone should be up in arms with. Don't get me wrong, maybe they are lying straight into our faces; but right now, we can only base our assumptions of the intent with this statement. And the statement sounds rational. No need to gather the pitchforks yet.
Just to clarify, if people still feel disturbed or uncomfortable, especially if they are trans folk; they have full rights to do so. And I can't blame them, considering the past of this team.
The thing with this issue is that some people are trying to make this an objective problem everyone should be up in arms with. Don't get me wrong, maybe they are lying straight into our faces; but right now, we can only base our assumptions of the intent with this statement. And the statement sounds rational. No need to gather the pitchforks yet.
Just to clarify, if people still feel disturbed or uncomfortable, especially if they are trans folk; they have full rights to do so. And I can't blame them, considering the past of this team.
Honestly, I think this is a good response entirely because I doubt CDPR was even aware this was a brewing controversy - and thus didn't give anybody a canned line. This is just an artist contextualizing their art, and it makes it feel sincere - even if you think their intentions are misplaced.
Thats why i want to see more. Im interested in the game and i want to be sure about it.
Not sure what else can be cut from my excerpt while still keeping her answer in context. I said full info at the link because it gives more about the controversy for those unfamiliar and sends traffic to the source as deserved, but I did my best cutting it down and would gladly take a recommendation from you or mods on how to modify the statement to be shorter.
I wish some folks would understand that trans people are upset because we wanna like the game lol
There are a plethora of reasons why this is transphobic, several pointed out by trans people like myself, in the other thread
Satire is always hard to pull off. It's even harder in today's world because of how quickly the conversation changes and how much bigots use dog-whistling. There are a lot issues that require delicacy and need to be directly addressed.
I don't think "this is cyberpunk" is all that needs to be said to make intentions clear. You better make a strong point of the advertising being exploitative in the game or else it might be interpreted as not being satirical. And even then there will be backlash because satire is always going to be misinterpreted. It's a tough art to pull off.
I don't think "this is cyberpunk" is all that needs to be said to make intentions clear. You better make a strong point of the advertising being exploitative in the game or else it might be interpreted as not being satirical. And even then there will be backlash because satire is always going to be misinterpreted. It's a tough art to pull off.
Maybe wait until you've played the game and understand the context before critiquing how it deals with complex issues?
I mean, I'm not here to defend CDPR or Cyberpunk, I don't even care that much about the game - But one RPS article doesn't really tell us anything about how the game treats race in the city. When we jump to judgement we're not furthering any cause, we're just muddying up the discourse and being counter-productive to games actually tackling complex issues. Cyberpunk might very well turn out to be offensive or insensitive, but let's at least know that it is before getting up in arms?