Why limit this question to snes vs indie games. I think the better comparison is indie games versus 16 bit games (genesis/snes). I would pick 16 bit games only because I had more fun with those games than the indie games we have today.
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Poll: Are indie games today overall better then SNES games?
- Thread starter Poised Turtoise
- Start date
Indie games provide more thought provoking and unconventional experiences for me. I love many SNES games and I have great memories of them but they just don't grab me like some indie games do. Nowadays I'm looking for a unique experience rather than just pure entertainment.
Yes, mostly down to quality of life improvements and having more power to do more things, especially when it comes to art and the like.
You also have to factor in 20 years plus of advancements and new ideas.
I still prefer the best snes games to the best indie games. I have better memories playing super metroid over something like Braid.
You also have to factor in 20 years plus of advancements and new ideas.
I still prefer the best snes games to the best indie games. I have better memories playing super metroid over something like Braid.
Yes. People who lived these experiences and places are now making games about said experiences and places. And some of these games are actually pretty solid to boot!
Nah, a lot of indie games lack polish. Almost all Indies feels floaty to me compared to SNES games, even the average ones. SNES devs always seemed to take advantage of the hardware they had, but indie devs still struggle to things like hitboxes.
Even in op, he mentioned one game for every past year, because not a lot of the Indies games released every year are outstanding.
I was more satisfied trying sunset rider for the first time this decade than castle Crashers.
It's weird how empowering devs instead of limiting them made them make less impressive work.
Even in op, he mentioned one game for every past year, because not a lot of the Indies games released every year are outstanding.
I was more satisfied trying sunset rider for the first time this decade than castle Crashers.
It's weird how empowering devs instead of limiting them made them make less impressive work.
can't really think of many indie STG or action games i'd rather play than the highlights of the SNES's generation.
Right now I feel like we gotta ask this on a per-genre basis compared to the highest highs of the 16-bit era. Maybe in terms of graphics and even pixel art direction, but in terms of controls, level design, and balance? That's to be debated.
Is there any indie RPG as good as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Shin Megami Tensei, and Phantasy Star IV?
Has any indie run n' gun surpassed Contra III, Hard Corps, Mega Man X, or Gunstar Heroes?
Has any indie shmup surpassed stuff like R-Type III or Darius Twin?
Has any indie metroidvania (and there are a shitload) surpassed Super Metroid?
I feel like there are some in those genres that are kinda in the ballpark, definitely better than most of their 16-bit predecessors, but maybe still not on the same level as the games that directly inspired them.
Is there a demo somewhere?
Is there any indie RPG as good as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Shin Megami Tensei, and Phantasy Star IV?
Has any indie run n' gun surpassed Contra III, Hard Corps, Mega Man X, or Gunstar Heroes?
Has any indie shmup surpassed stuff like R-Type III or Darius Twin?
Has any indie metroidvania (and there are a shitload) surpassed Super Metroid?
I feel like there are some in those genres that are kinda in the ballpark, definitely better than most of their 16-bit predecessors, but maybe still not on the same level as the games that directly inspired them.
Is there a demo somewhere?
I'd say that Devil Engine and Crimzon Clover are better than those two games, but not as good as Thunderforce IV :D The SNES is a pretty low-bar for STG imho.
Snes era was so experimental. There wasnt any standard or games to draw inspiration from. Theres a basis to follow now and indies now what and where to get their inspirations from.
I disagree. There were some experimental games but I saw the 16-bit era as more of refining of 8-bit concepts than anything else.
Surprised at the poll turnout. Besides a couple of games (namely Cave Story and Undertale), I have never played an indie game as good as games like Mega Man X, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, A Link To The Past, Donkey Kong Country 2, Kirby Super Star, Super Metroid... too many indie games feel derivative for my tastes and don't really reflect the sheer creativity coming out of many of these classic titles.
The SNES has my favorite library of any system, but I genuinely have played very few indie games that are better than a B+.
The SNES has my favorite library of any system, but I genuinely have played very few indie games that are better than a B+.
Lolpost.
I'll go from the top. If you've played SNES games recently, a lot of them lack polish too, even the great ones. Too bad a patch can't be released to fix a bug or a translation error......
There are a ton of outstanding indie games released each year but you may not hear about all of them. Understandable, doesn't mean that because you don't know about them that they don't exist.
Matter of taste. Castle Crashers is best played with a friend....
Bizarre statement. How in the world are you trying to frame dev's having the freedom to execute their vision as the reason for what you preceive as the downfall of quality? Limit their choices and ability to choose working hours/life balance leads to better games?
Not sure how this poll isn't skewing towards the SNES, games that indies are most influenced by.
There have been a few indie titles that you KNOW were influenced by retro games so to say that indies are "better" is to throw context out the window.
There have been a few indie titles that you KNOW were influenced by retro games so to say that indies are "better" is to throw context out the window.
No, though some defenitely would be considered classics today if released on the 16 bit consoles. I'm assuming we're talking about those indie 2D retro style games? Though thinking about it, most of the 2D "16-bit" style indie games would be more like those from the PS/Saturn era. Many are still too much with effects, color, music, and size for those cartridges.
Disagree. I've played a ton of SNES/Genesis games and was able to find a ton of games that attempt to break out of the norm of what youe expected from the Nes. The hardware help a bit to introduce a slightly different experience. Though my point was SNES games and Genesis games set a standard as to how a indie should approach say a 2d game.
The OP skewed this thread to somehow be only about discussion of Indie games that make people remember SNES games.
I guess no VR game was ever made by an Indie developer.
I guess no VR game was ever made by an Indie developer.
Darkest Dungeon
Hollow Knight
Into the Breach
Celeste
Ape Out
Enter the Gungeon
Dead Cells
CupHead
Ori
Owlboy
Superhot
Inside
Not saying they are better SNES games yet, but it's getting harder and harder to just dismiss the notion.
Hollow Knight
Into the Breach
Celeste
Ape Out
Enter the Gungeon
Dead Cells
CupHead
Ori
Owlboy
Superhot
Inside
Not saying they are better SNES games yet, but it's getting harder and harder to just dismiss the notion.
Genre defining in what respect? I meant there's no indie game quite like Diddy's Kong Quest, or if there is, it's not as good.
I'd rather play Celeste over any Rare DKC lmao
Diddy's Kong Quest is genre defining?
A Link to the Past is a better game than Celeste, which is a better game than Megaman X, which is a better game than Below.
My answer is basically, some are, and some aren't.
My answer is basically, some are, and some aren't.
It's not really a good comparison to make. As others have said, a lot of successful indie title are heavily inspired by classics from the 16-bit generation, and a lot of indie games have only artificial limitations aside from limitations caused by a lack of money or man power... the tools available today are immeasurably better than they were in the 80s and 90s, the storage limitations basically don't exist, the memory limitations basically don't exist, SNES games were coded in 65c816 assembly. Games were what? 6MB? And some *still* fail to come close to the greatness of some SNES and Genesis games.. there are lot more high quality indie games in terms of quantity, but I feel like the limitations of the time brought about some great ideas and innovation that put the best above the rest
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Joke post? I'm thinking so but I'm wondering.... Entire genres of Indie games apparently don't exist according to this thread.
OP
OP
Of course, but the SNES has like 600 released titles in NA/PAL. We get 600 direct to dumpster indie games a year. It's why I think comparing the two is silly and arbitrary.
We've had indie games on consoles for over a decade, and if we include flash and free ware titles like the original cave story then we can go back to when the SNES was an active console.
I would hope that over a 20 year period there would be more 9-10/10 indie games then the SNES could have put out in it's 7-8 year run.
Also I think people downplay the innovation angle, many of the things indie games took and refined were things many SNES games invented. Stardew Valley craps on SNES Harvest Moon in almost every single way... but Harvest Moon on SNES invented the genre and set the ground work that Harvest Moon would be inspired from.
I don't think anyone's really disregarding the innovation angle and important steps were made in the SNES era - but being the first and most innovative doesn't automatically make it the better than an indie game which may have surpassed it, which is what this thread is about (even if I disagree with the assertion - I think they're on the same level personally)
A lot of indie games could also use patches that never came...
Yes, but there also lot of great SNES games that came out and I never heard of too, so that's not the point.
Sunset riders is also better with coop, I think.
Lol, what balanced of work hour/life has to do with anything I said? I'm talking about how powerful systems and powerful tool should enable new breaking ground in games but everyone kinda had the same idea, so they made kinda the same thing. A flashy top-down shooter where you can get lots bullets on screens and loads of guns. A plataform rougue like that is randomly generated. A tower defense, but with something different to pass as towers. How many Indies fit on those specific descriptions?
Kojima didn't made metal gear because he had a vision for metal gear, he made it because he couldn't realize his vision of just a shooter. People, in general, are not really all that creative, unless they need to. The most original ideas comes from actually trying to circumvent a concrete obstacle, not out of the constant wish of creating something new.
if you're citing *Castle Crashers* as your example, which came at the very start of the indie wave as your example, you know you're out of touch. Play more indie games.
Poll title says "prefer" while the questions say "better"? Are we trying to discuss objective quality or subjective preference? Although frankly "better" is pretty broad too.
If we're talking objectively "better" I'd argue that it's pretty impossible to talk about the quality of SNES games and also divorce them from their time - hardware limitations, what they did that nothing else had really done, influence on the games that came after, etc.
I think it would be fairly easy to pick a few Metroid-style indie games with some nice quality of life improvements and say they were "better" because of them. But then again we all know what "Metroid-style" means and we'll still be talking about Super Metroid at it's 30th anniversary and probably it's 40th.
If we're talking objectively "better" I'd argue that it's pretty impossible to talk about the quality of SNES games and also divorce them from their time - hardware limitations, what they did that nothing else had really done, influence on the games that came after, etc.
I think it would be fairly easy to pick a few Metroid-style indie games with some nice quality of life improvements and say they were "better" because of them. But then again we all know what "Metroid-style" means and we'll still be talking about Super Metroid at it's 30th anniversary and probably it's 40th.
I see a lot of comparing genres the SNES was strong at to current indies and saying they are lacking and yet conveniently ignoring the other side with the large number of indies for which there is little to no SNES equivalent, especially on PC. You get "indies don't innovate" but then the ones that are nothing like any 16-bit game don't count for some reason.
It's a silly thing to compare really.
It's a silly thing to compare really.
OP
OP
I guess in my mind what you prefer is what youd personally think is "better," so like which is better for you
Yep, and hot take, they have surpassed the highs of the SNES era as well. Indies have been amazing for years now.
SNES games do have the tech disadvantage and that cant be ignored though.
SNES games do have the tech disadvantage and that cant be ignored though.
Yep pretty much. No Metroid clone has ever been as brilliantly designed.
OP
OP
Hollow Knight is a weird one for me. Super Metroid is probably the "best" game ever made in my eyes. Symphony of the Night and Dawn of Sorrow are probably in my top ten games. I love Guacamelee and a ton of other Metroidvanias. But no matter how hard I try, no matter how many hours I put into it, I just don't like Hollow Knight.
The locations don't feel exciting to explore for me. It feels drab rather than bleak. The combat doesn't feel good to me. I never felt like I was being rewarded.
I want to like it. I want to understand all the praise it gets but I just keep getting bored and disinterested
I'm not the one who used the term "genre defining", but cool thanks for the opinion.
This. Exactly this. Indies are making great games, no doubt, but they're not outclassing the SNES' top games by a fair margin.
Better looking for sure, but I need someone to show me what the heck I've been missing if a majority of people think the likes of games like Chrono Trigger+Yoshi's Island+Super Metroid, just to name a few, have been outmatched.
The fact that Super Metroid, Zelda: A Link to the Past, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island exist means that SNES S games are better.
That does not mean there are not some indy games that are amazing and up there with some of the greats.
But the best of the SNES or retro games are still better than the best indy games.
In my opinion. But that could just be down to the kind of game that I like.
That does not mean there are not some indy games that are amazing and up there with some of the greats.
But the best of the SNES or retro games are still better than the best indy games.
In my opinion. But that could just be down to the kind of game that I like.
I love indie games as they have more "time in the oven" on most occasions, this allows them to focus more directly on the mechanics and fine-tuning the experience compared to some of the games they were inspired from which were on a much more strict release schedule most of the time.
Still, the classics are still classics to me from what I've played. Indies have the ability to make them better based on the above, they are more passion projects a lot of the time.
Still, the classics are still classics to me from what I've played. Indies have the ability to make them better based on the above, they are more passion projects a lot of the time.
There's a lot less crappy licensed games that are all platformers now and there's a lot more creativity and unique experiences in indie games that weren't able to be done back then because of what publishers thought could sell.
Nothing crazy here other than how reductive you're being. The breadth of indie games coming out today is gargantuan, and many of them, even those side scrolling adventure games patterned after metroid, surpass the games they were influenced by.
How do games like Darkwood, CrossCode, Age of Decadence, Underrail, LISA or Superhot fit into your understanding of indie games?
generally 8/16 bit inspired indie games are more of a spin on a particular formula rather than full fledged games we got back then. obvious exceptions like Hollow Knight and such but most still don't compare in spite of their inspriation
not that either is "better" though
not that either is "better" though
My goodness, no. Hell I can't even get a decent indie political thriller tactical RPG out of all the bazillion Souls-like, Rogue-like and Rogue-lite, and 2D pixel art platformers that are spat out rapid fire nowadays. So just for the sake of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together there's no way I would put indie games over the SNES games. Maybe if I liked Souls-like, Rogue-like/Rogue-lite, or 2D pixel art platformers then I could do so, but I have a near zero interest in them due to how that's all indies seem to be making.
