You mean the commercials that will be run regardless of who is the actual Democrat candidate.
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Politico: Trumpworld torn over running against Bernie
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Like, it just reads like them going "Should we ratfuck him to the top? Yeah, let's ratfuck him to the top."
Why do you think they ran that "attack" ad in Iowa talking about how he wants to give everyone healthcare and relieve college debt? We all know that's not an attack ad but is helpful. This all just reads to me right out of McCaskill's ratfucking playbook.
To me, this sounds oddly similar to a lot of what Trump has been doing in regards to Bernie. "Oh, I'm so afraid of Bernie" "Bernie wants to give everyone healthcare" "The DNC was so mean to Bernie" If he was attacking Bernie then then why would this be his vector of attack? Even an idiot knows this stuff isn't going to hurt Bernie. So why do that stuff unless he's the guy you want to face?
If he was afraid then why not attack him in ways that would hurt him with the Democratic electorate? Attack him on guns or something if you don't want him to win. This all just feels coordinated.
So you live in the Midwest? I was born and raised in IA. Anecdotally, there is a good amount of Trump/Bernie or busters that have started popping up in my Facebook feeds very similar to how it was in 2016. So, iunno man.
Wouldn't that mean that Trump purposefully gave Parnas an hour-and-a-half long tape of him admitting to crimes just so that they could try to ratfuck Bernie into getting the nomination?
But in our case if money=power, then we're the lizards from thanos world cause we all broke as fuck and we're going up against 2,000 tony starks
It can be risky to boost/ratfuck someone in a primary by calling them honest and portraying them as outsiders who took on the establishment and won, and then in the general having to deal with the positive public perception of them you have helped create.
Back when Trump was first elected my supervisor told me that most people just vote based on pure emotion. Most people don't even pay attention to their policies etc.
He could have just wanted that part of the conversation to leak without leaking the whole thing. Seriously, if he was afraid then why is his team not trying to strike Bernie down? Instead they do positive ads. Trump talks publicly about how hard done Bernie was, not the kinda thing you do to get someone to lose the nomination.
Yes, THIS time the moderate democrat who runs on "whoa, slow down, let's not push too hard for good things" will beat the crazy republican, and so we should choose them. Please ignore every bland, unexciting democratic nominee in the general since the turn of the millennium. What's the saying? Fourth time's the charm?
I could see Trump himself being concerned about Bernie, just because he doesn't have any of the features Trump most often likes to use to belittle people, while a lot of the GOP around Trump probably think they can slaughter Bernie, and so are happy to lean into Trump's concern about him.
And really, I don't know which side is right. Bernie polls well right now, and 2016 was nothing if not proof that literally anyone can win if they get themselves nominated by one of the two parties, but it's also true that Bernie has never really come under heavy fire from Republican criticism before, and Hillary and Biden are both evidence of how quickly polling numbers can collapse from beloved-elder-statesman to ultra-divisive-partisan the moment the Republican media apparatus turns their eye towards you. Plus 2018 midterms did not really see much success for the "use leftist candidates to turn out nonvoters" strategy, and a lot of success for the "run squishy moderates in the suburbs" strategy. There is a real chance of a voter surge with Bernie, but also a chance of a turnout collapse among middle class suburbanites. And really Bernie hasn't been in a position where at least one of his enemies isn't propping him up to beat someone else with. First Trump using him as an anti-Hillary foil in 2016, always happy to talk about how Hillary rigged things against Bernie, and now by Biden against Warren, always ready to hold him up as "honest" versus a shifty Warren. A Bernie vs Trump race is a super unpredictable thing.
I always feel this kinds of articles are a bit weirdly framed as it set Bernie up in a very certain light in terms of his relation to Trump's campaign... that seems like the exact thing the Trump campaign would be desiring the writers to do exactly as they themselves are talking about in their very own article.
Well, I don't think we need to take the judgement of Trump's campaign strategists as the be-all-end-all word on the correct path for Trump. Even if they are signal boosting him, I don't know if that is very wise.
I think, like a lot of us, they think Joe will win. It seems weird that a guy as paranoid as Trump would factor the Parnas tapes into his grand strategy. And if that is their strategy... fine. It'll be their own fault when they lose.
Not so much the tapes. I edited to make it clearer. Basically get it around second hand by telling someone you know will probably leak it. It just feels weird that everyone is taking Trump at face value when he knows he's a lying liar who lies and cheats and steals. Especially when he's not actually doing anything to stop Bernie.
The time was 2018 the bland moderate democrats won the House of Representatives.
No they want you to think that you know that they know you think it's a ratfucking!
I don't think that Bernie is any more vulnerable to that angle of attack than anyone else, IMO. The GOP will call any Democrat (or Leftist Independent) a dirty Commie and photoshop their face into Soviet propaganda posters. If, by some insane twist of fate, Bloomberg gets the nomination, Fox news will call him a Socialist.
If Trump has a strategy, he probably wants Bernie to lose and then go on a crusade about how the DNC rigged the nomination and flip his supporters to his side. But Trump's an idiot so who cares who he thinks he can or can't beat. Most polling shows both Bernie and Biden well ahead of Trump in the GE. If Trump had any intelligence he'd be hoping Pete wins. His favorables with black and Latino voters are so poor you can practically guarantee a Trump re-election.
They should be scared period, regardless of who is the Democratic nominee. I still prefer Biden, but I won't hesitate to vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee.
But let's not kid ourselves, what the Republicans and Trump White House really want is for the Democratic nomination to drag on and get dirty. I don't think that will happen though. There's far too many people in this country exhausted and fed up with Trump. It's time to set him aside and move the country back on track again.
I still suspect that Biden will ultimately prevail as the nominee, but we'll see.
But let's not kid ourselves, what the Republicans and Trump White House really want is for the Democratic nomination to drag on and get dirty. I don't think that will happen though. There's far too many people in this country exhausted and fed up with Trump. It's time to set him aside and move the country back on track again.
I still suspect that Biden will ultimately prevail as the nominee, but we'll see.
If it comes down to Bernie vs. Biden when my state votes, I'm going Bernie, easy. I'm not even going to think about general election performance in making my choice. I think either one is capable of beating Trump, but a lot depends on how effectively him and the GOP are able to cheat.
I do. You don't cater to the crazies and lose the old people vote (who actually vote).
The effort to get dirt on Biden began in 2018 -- before he had announced -- but when insiders and opinion polls had indicated his dangerous potential. Late 2018 opinion polling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#October–December_2018
Either way, the Giuliani-Bidens affair ramped up in April of last year, so 9 months ago. And all of this was long before the notion of an actual Sanders nomination was considered realistic.
But now that a Sanders win is realistic, boy has the tune changed.
There's audio of Trump talking about how he felt that if Hillary had Sanders as her running mate it would have been a lot harder to beat her. He's definitely afraid of Bernie and would get wrecked in a debate with him... which is why he's already making excuses for possibly not participating in the debates.
Which state? Sanders polls really well in a lot of our midwest states.
I mean, dude is on camera saying Bernie just being on Hillary's ticket would have taken like 20% of his blue collar voters away.
Socialism is the natural opponent of fascism. You either embrace that, or go down with the ship.
They are assuming, based on the polls, that Biden is still gonna take it, and they're trying to splinter off Bernie voters to stay home or vote third party.
The kind of ratfucking you're suggesting is too sophisticated for the Trump team, point blank.
You really are not making the point you seem to believe you're making. Biden was seen as the presumptive nominee even before he announced. Who else would they focus their attacks on?
I live in Ohio (haha, now you are stuck in Ohio).
He polls okay before the GOP machine gets going. No old person is going to vote for him, especially in the midwest. I work with tons of people who would vote Trump but not in a million years a "socialist".
It's because if Bernie was the VP, all of his supporters would have voted for Hillary.
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Yeah, that anecdotal evidence is similar to mine. I've decided to caucus for him here in IA. I hope it is the right choice.
Yep yup yessir mmhmm
'The Only One I Didn't Want Her to Pick': In Secret Recording, Trump Admits Fear of Clinton Picking Sanders as VP in 2016
Leaked 2018 audio recording of president was released by legal team of Lev Parnas, close associate of Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. "You know, [Sanders] basically says we're getting screwed on trade," said Trump. "And he's right."www.commondreams.org
Bernie is the best shot we've got.
Imagine Trump's admin trying to get dirt on Biden in the chance of a Biden nomination for all this time just for Bernie to win the nomination and blow him out by cutting Trump's legs out from under him. It would be poetic.
Thank you. Genuinely.
If Sanders wins the primaries I put money on Trump, too. All of it. He's exactly the pushover as he's described in the article, and I bet there are already plans in motion from Trump's associates to push Sanders to win the primaries. Ever wondered why his fan base is considered toxic? Don't wonder again!
The right wing press will start covering Sanders from there on immediately, marking him as a pure bred Communist socialist 24/7. Like they did with Corbyn in the UK. Even Blue Collar voters were convinced in the end he was a Russian puppet - and yes, I see how that's kinda funny.
This is why Biden has still the best shot at beating Trump, and this is why Trump even goes so far than asking favors from foreign presidents to get dirt on him.
For context, as a German, I'm mainly, no, only interested in getting rid of Trump.
this narrative won't work on Biden. Like at all. This strategy only works out as intended for leftist candidates like Warren and especially Sanders. Like it or not.
Yep. I think we need a real confrontation of this myth that we should be worried about what the republicans are saying about Dems. They are going to push that narrative no matter who it is, no matter how specious it is either. We can't be kowtowing to that fear moving forward.
I could 100% see attack ads against Bernie doing good things for Bernie. There was an ad just a few days ago that honestly made him seem like a good choice even though the intent was to attack.
Ohio has more in common with West Virginia or western PA, it's not really a midwestern state. Nobody's gonna win Ohio, the state is too far gone.
Oh, I know Ohio is not going to swing back to the Ds (unless Sherrod Brown ran!). I live in the northern, more liberal(ish) area similar to Pennsylvania and a Sanders/Trump contest would go to Trump, but a Biden/Trump contest would go to Biden.
This narrative won't work on any of them because it's so worn out. And these repeated attacks on "socialism" have only made the term more acceptable to younger voters.
Do you think they'll change their mind if Trump threatens social security?