Honestly I think the people on the Left that bitch about the Democrats the loudest are going to vote for them in the end. I am in that camp because I know the stakes and the reality of the situation. But at this point I kind of hate the party, the president, and much of the leadership. Deep down my hate is strongest for Republicans, but, I know they will not change so I voice my frustration loudest with the Democrats, and I think that is what people are seeing.
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Politico: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
- Thread starter Smokeymicpot
- Start date
And Republicans do not even do that! Like there is zero reason at all Democrats should be playing nice at this point. It is as others said, Pelosi is above this all, she has no real stakes in this and frankly just is not capable of being the type of leader we need in this moment imo.
I want to see more of the anger Warren was showing, not hear about how we need Republicans especially right now. Read the room
This, I despise the Democratic party, but I'm not voting for white supremacist evangelical fascists. First past the post voting has royally fucked any hope of a normal political system in this country. Reasonable people only have one logical choice and that party is run by conservative corporatist dinosaurs who still want to be buddy buddy with fascists. WTF kind of choices are those?
She's chasing a pipe dream. What an out of touch comment to make.
Pelosi and far far far too many Americans simply don't give a fuck and just want a false sense of peace. We're pretty much fucked as a country. As much as people want to believe, things are going to get so much more worse before they get even a little better.
It'll totally be different this time man!
It'll totally be different this time man!
It can be part of the argument but it gets repeated so often like a gotcha and 1) I'm not sure how effective it is since it has been repeated for decades and yet here we are 2) I don't even think it's the most convincing argument if you believe it's murder. This decision is literally hand waving away these exceptions with the argument that we need more babies to put up for adoption anyways.
And I'm not saying don't appeal to emotion, I'm just saying this clearly hasn't been working maybe try another way to appeal to their emotions if that's what you think is needed. Like my wife and I were trying for our second kid but had a lot of difficulty. We were told to try IVF and that ultimately led to 10 miscarriages and 2 non-viable fetuses that had to be aborted. But we eventually had our daughter. Now that's a bit of an extreme example, but we know a whole lot of people that had to have help getting pregnant, or had some troubles once they were pregnant. I think that would be better than focusing and using victims as props. Put them on defense explaining why people can't safely try to make a family.
In addition, the repetition of rape and incest has given Republicans a way to soften their rhetoric. For a long time they agreed with the exceptions and so it seemed like maybe there was some room to negotiate, but there just isn't. So I'm not sure why we should soften the position of allowing abortions for all in all cases if they have not only refused to budge, but have gone even further right.
People are rightfully angry, and the proverbial heads are gonna roll, but when people figure out that you can't put Roe back in the box, and no amount of finger wagging to shaming is going to stop the GQP, or the SC majority for that matter, they will begin to rightly start pointing those fingers back at leadership. We don't need to hear calls for a 'strong Republican party', we need strong Democratic leadership in these very most uncertain times. And honestly, Nancy is asking for a lifeboat cause the fucking ship is sinking. It is very disappointing to hear continued calls for civility and decorum after we lost the battle. I don't know what the right leadership looks like but I sure know this aint it.
I sometimes think it's funny to say "this is the American Taliban" because didn't America play a notable part in finding the mujahadeen to fight Soviets, down to printing out extremist textbooks filled with half religious fervor for Islam and half weapons tactics advice?
Maybe the taliban was always American. The cat came home
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Nancy Pelosi called the Republican Party a literal cult and the last three pages were spent yelling at her for that instead of, idk, anything about the Republicans. In another instance, a clever Republican operative increased the security budget of some govt agency and then leaked it as "unanimous consent to protect Kavanaugh" and everyone is enraged at the Dems even though they probably had nothing to do with it except not realizing it was a dirty trick in advance. You're dancing to the Republican's tune and you don't even realize it. Like, I get the urge, but this circular firing squad is exactly what Republicans are counting on.
Who said anything about persuading the forced labor crowd? They're outnumbered, we don't have to convince them, we just need to actually defend the rights of people for whom pregnancy is a possibility instead of being desperate for The Right Voters who they think they can attract by being Diet Republicans.
The amount of the population that actually wants abortion banned is like 35% of the country, the Republicans have been outnumbered for decades but have successfully worked the anti-democratic elements of the system in order to enact their central policy goal of the last 50 years. That's not a weak party.
What Pelosi wants in terms of a "strong party" is a party that blunts the desires of their political base ala her party, who just spent 50 years paying the barest lip service to the desires of their political base with actual political power, using the issue almost entirely as a way to generate money for a party apparatus that's been very happy to support people who want to crush those rights. What she wants is a Republican Party that is as feckless as the Democratic Party.
it's important to remember this is a deeply undemocratic decision by the Supreme Court. I know it's extremely frustrating and it feels like the rhetoric failed but I don't think it did. When properly explained to people, roe v Wade gets about 80% support from Americans (a lot of people confuse Roe with laws in blue states protecting abortion in every trimester). Let's keep the coalition of people together, from those worried about rape/incest, to those who understand this is a basic right of women to be first class citizens.
Nancy could have just called them a cult and left it at that. Messaging like this is terrible and at odds with her sentiment. Republicans have always been a cult. So we need a strong cult? Why even mention the other party. Stop talking about them and start talking about us, the people on the edge of falling into fascism.
It doesn't matter what we think though. We're all voting for them anyway.
Our voice doesn't matter. They'll keep on their course regardless.
Republicans have in fact painted the Democrats as a party of pedophiles and sex groomers lol. Democrats still on the when they go low we go high loser strategy. No wonder they keep losing.
Another fine op-ed from the Washington Post Editorial Board. Jesus Christ.
"Democracy Dies in Darkness."
What's her basis of this "strong republican party that isn't a cult" that she wants then? Her career in congress began 6 years into Reagan's presidency, so her choices are Reagan-era and Bush-era.
This is complete nonsense. The Democrats control the Senate agenda, nothing comes to the floor without them bringing it as such. The proposal you're talking about was co-sponsored by a member of the Democratic caucus. It's not some single line tucked into a massive bill, it's completely stand-alone.
They didn't get tricked, they didn't get bamboozled, this was a thing they sought to enact and did.
The funny shit is that there are actually receipts showing Republicans are the party of pedophiles and sex groomers. Dems have a lot of ammo, yet they don't use it. Dem leadership is so awful that if democracy wasn't in danger, it would be laughable how they suck at their job.
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there was a point where democrats were progressive (make things better for everyone) and republicans are conservative (keep things the same). at some point this changed to the democrats being conservative (keep things the same) and the republicans becoming regressive (make things better for some and worse for others)
I totally agree. It was an out of touch comment.
Totally unrelated but I like this take (from 4 days ago but I just saw it):
Lawrence: Samuel Alito's Lies Did Not Stop In His Confirmation Hearing
MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell details the years of lying and hypocrisy from Republicans and Republican-appointed Supreme Court Justices on abortion rights.» Sub...
youtu.be
So awesome to have party leadership that openly bolsters and carries water for the opposition. Scratch a liberal indeed. Thanks for nothing, Nancy.
Fucking pathetic.
Fucking pathetic.
I literally say don't drop it completely but it keeps being used as a gotcha and I think that's a mistake. And without some numbers to show that as the main reason it has majority support I'm not sure I get your point. You're suggesting that we shouldn't change any talking points after this for fear the issue will lose support. That seems misguided.
While I'm clearing up these misconceptions you've got, let's go with another one here.
The opinion in Roe v. Wade is that women have a right to bodily autonomy such that restrictions on abortion are unconstitutional, period. You know how dismissive you're being about "protecting abortion in every trimester"? That's what Roe protected.
That part of Roe hasn't actually been operative law in this country for 30 years, it's just shorthand for the right to an abortion now. The actual operative case on abortion rights currently is Planned Parenthood v. Casey, which started to pare back those rights by allowing "reasonable restrictions", restrictions that have been used to basically reduce abortion access to almost zero while maintaining a fig leaf of access, that you can get an abortion only after a mandatory cooling off period, a bunch of medically unnecessary procedures, and if you have transportation to the one clinic in the state that has managed to not be closed by further regulatory bullshit.
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Fair enough. In that case I think the anger is warranted and deserved.
It's not a misconception. Roe literally divides pregnancies into trimesters and only gives the unquestioned right to abortion in the first trimester. Second trimester allows some restrictions and third allows heavy restrictions. Many people mistakenly think Roe allows for no restrictions up to 9 months.
What was Lincoln's stance on abortion? Even Theodore Roosevelt was against abortion but supports women's right.
As noted in the original thread, there are rumors circulating that Alito's family has been secretly relocated, but there's no confirmation yet.
Republicans: 'We want to destroy you and evey idea you stand for.'
Democrats: 'I wish the Republicans we're stronger.'
Democrats: 'I wish the Republicans we're stronger.'
Because it betrays a mind that isn't grounded in reality. If Nancy Pelosi is a leader of the Democratic party and the only thing she can do is say we need a sane Republican party again; then, that is ignoring the fact that the Republican party has been batshit insane forever. Politics isn't about having an opposition party that you can respect. Politics is about power and its effective use. How can you be effective if you can't even realize that your political enemies are your enemies?
The Republicans sure as fuck know that the Democrats are their enemies. They're effectively using their political power to target Democratic voters and deliver policies and results that Republican voters and donors want. Meanwhile all the Democrats seem to be able to do is lose and tell their voters to vote harder next time even though their actual material conditions are worsening every day. At the end of the day women in this country are about to lose their right to bodily autonomy and the Democrats are putting up a half-hearted resistance. People have all the right in the world to criticize this delusional liberal bullshit.
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You get it. I hope others understand this this the reality of the situation, as well.
We sadly must vote Democrats into power, as they are the only viable option. Once we've couched a comfortable majority, pressure needs to placed internally to reform the body of candidates to become pragmatic progressives. We need people that don't whine and instead quietly, feverishly work through the night to make a good quality of life for all Americans a reality.
I've said it before and I'll continue to say it, Democrats (and to the same extent the left) are horrible at playing the politics game because they are too concerned with decorum. What good is that when the right have never played with decorum?
When someone is literally calling you demon baby eater, you don't go "my colleague across the aisle is mistaken". Enough of this pussy footing around, and get someone that knows how to attack back
When someone is literally calling you demon baby eater, you don't go "my colleague across the aisle is mistaken". Enough of this pussy footing around, and get someone that knows how to attack back
One other key, important "on the ground" difference is that republicans keep trying to do something, even if they know they will lose, because it creates a record that can be used in elections. They tried like 50+ tries to repeal Obamacare while they held control of the house and senate, even though they KNEW they didn't have the votes, so they could primary people who vote against it to favor more conservative candidates.
Democrats had the chance the past 2 years to add more justices to the supreme court, and didn't even try. They had some investigations in a committee but didn't let it go any further. They should have brought it up to vote in the Senate 3-4 times at least. Sure, Manchin and Sinemia probably would have voted against it (or it wouldn't pass filibuster) but those create moments to campaign on. The democrats didn't even try, because most voters thought SCOTUS would not repeal Roe v Wade. But politicians are supposed to be "smarter" and more "savvy" about politics, it says a lot if most of the democratic congress people and senators didn't think Roe V Wade would get repealed.
Democrats had the chance the past 2 years to add more justices to the supreme court, and didn't even try. They had some investigations in a committee but didn't let it go any further. They should have brought it up to vote in the Senate 3-4 times at least. Sure, Manchin and Sinemia probably would have voted against it (or it wouldn't pass filibuster) but those create moments to campaign on. The democrats didn't even try, because most voters thought SCOTUS would not repeal Roe v Wade. But politicians are supposed to be "smarter" and more "savvy" about politics, it says a lot if most of the democratic congress people and senators didn't think Roe V Wade would get repealed.
It'd be actual comedy if this mindset didn't spell doom for us all. I'm pretty cynical and I'm still kinda shocked that Nancy is still chasing this shit AND willing to say it publicly. Just, wow.
Aviate, navigate, communicate are the three things you do when an airplane is in a Mayday emergency. Right now, we have Republicans trying to literally wreck the plane, so I understand leveling the plane is really all (national) Democrats can do at this point to keep our institutions from crumbling.
Civil war expert reacts to Trump supporter. See her warning for the US
CNN's Donie O'Sullivan examines how lies about the 2020 election could undermine the future of American democracy. 'I saw it on TV!': Why Trump supporter say...
www.youtube.com
"do you trust the election officials?"
"nope!"
"do you trust the fbi?"
"nope!"
"do you trust the courts?"
"nope!"
"who do you trust?"
"trump and his supporters and anyone I listen to [who makes me feel good]"
This is not a party compatible with democracy at this point.
This is a really good point. Even now, Democrats are too squishy to talk about expanding the court. That needs to change.
It really is mind boggling stupid. How many times does one have to get shot in the face while turning cheek until it's figured out that they are reloading again.
I don't think there's a bottom for these people. A poster prior to this nailed it when they said the dems want a republican party as feckless as they are cause otherwise they're stumped on how to proceed.
You all realize this is the messaging because they are counting on GOP defectors to vote for them, right? Because yes, registered Republican voters that are disallusioned with the current GOP is actually a thing, and the midterm House races are in badly gerrymandered districts where said voters have a disproportionately large voice.
And yet they will act surprised when this turns out to be a major turn off for the young and progressive parts of the population.
Galvanizing their own base this is not...
Seems like it would be easier to appeal to people already on your side instead of fickle voters…
Unfortunately, they have radicalized to the point that most will just vote party lines even against their own interests to 'own the libs'. There was a time this was possible. I just don't believe it is anymore.
Especially when said fickle voters will be equally worried about gas prices as they are about fundamental human rights.
Yeah, beyond that point. We're at the "showing you I am" phase now.
I can't with these fuckers. Ben hitler shitpiro said, unironically, that you are a bad person if the condom breaks during intercourse and that leads to pregnancy.
Why do people in the US listen to these kind of fuckers? seriously who looks at that nerdy bigoted piece of shit and goes "yes this man is reasonable".
Seriously, he's still so pissed because hollywood rejected his dumb scripts for whatever bullshit he was creating. Now he is the king of the incels and nazi alt right idiots. What a fucking crybaby.
Why do people in the US listen to these kind of fuckers? seriously who looks at that nerdy bigoted piece of shit and goes "yes this man is reasonable".
Seriously, he's still so pissed because hollywood rejected his dumb scripts for whatever bullshit he was creating. Now he is the king of the incels and nazi alt right idiots. What a fucking crybaby.
Because anyone who sounds like the viewer is by default reasonable
I have a few issues with this strategy from dems. But the main thing is not that she's asking republicans to vote for democrats. She's asking them to keep voting for republicans - which is a worse deal. Whatever problems i have with the dems, I don't want them to encourage people to vote for Republicans.
I also have an issue with people getting mad at others getting mad over this obviously dumb strategy. Like even if this was just a call for more republican voters to vote for dems; how could the reaction not be negative from the far left? "Hey you know those people that are against everything you're for, yeah they're more important to us than you. We would be a lot happier with their votes. What do you mean you're upset by this? "
Makes sense. I too would prefer a two-party system with a reasonable Republican Party instead of an insane anti-science death cult pushing the world into climate disaster as fast as possible and criminalizing all abortion possible. But of course people are angry so they read a few words of the tweet and characterize what she said as "she wants the Republican Party as it is now to be more powerful and influential." lmao