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Politico: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
- Thread starter Smokeymicpot
- Start date
Ugh...
This is so goddamn depressing... It's just so vile and evil. Almost 50 years later and this f*cking happens - 'Evil' doesn't even begin to do describe this, it's too kind a word.
I really wish this is the worst of it but it feels incredibly naive to even hope for change at this point. America feels so depressingly lost and divided... :(
That's really up to the mother to decide. If they want to refer to what they are growing as a baby, it's not your business to say otherwise.
What we've seen since 2016 is that MAGA and Republicans do a lot better when Trump is on the ballot because they come out to vote for him and then vote straight party ticket. It's possible this stems the usual midterm bloodbath some this year, hopefully.
So could anyone chime in what this might mean in regards for abortion medication given to women with failed pregnancies (not sure if this is the proper medical term, and I apologize if it comes across as callous)?
When my wife and I were working on getting pregnant, we had to deal with this. She was given some pills to take at home when they found no heartbeat on the ultrasound.
I hate everything about this, and how many people are going to needlessly be hurt. I sincerely hope there will be some sort of organizations that will help people with travel/medical costs.
When my wife and I were working on getting pregnant, we had to deal with this. She was given some pills to take at home when they found no heartbeat on the ultrasound.
I hate everything about this, and how many people are going to needlessly be hurt. I sincerely hope there will be some sort of organizations that will help people with travel/medical costs.
Sure. I used fetus to refer to my own unborn children and my very pro-choice wife also thought it was odd to phrase it that way. I just mentioned this to illustrate that our very language supports the "abortion as baby murder" position.
I was at the protest in DC today in front of the court. By the evening the crowd had a few hundred people and great energy. Left feeling good. No incidents and only a single solitary anti-choice protester who was immediately boo'd into the shadow realm. I also heard from several people who were there yesterday that the number of anti-choice protesters was greatly distorted by the media and they were actually massively outnumbered at all times. Yet somehow they still got quite a lot of attention from the cameras! Hmm how odd. Wonder what that's about 🤔
Anyway...I hope it's kosher to post this but a lot of energy is being directed to organizing a general strike action this Sunday, Mother's Day, for eight days, and women and men are both encouraged to participate. I'm not sure how this is gonna work out tbh, a lotta folks who won't risk Mom's disappointment on that day of all days. Maybe buy flowers the day before and cook her a meal instead of going out to brunch? 🤷♂️ The folks in charge don't seem to like it very much when we stop going out to eat and spending money! Seems like something that could actually make a dent if it gains enough steam?
Here's the website, if anyone has time to put together a thread and the mods are cool with it, please do!! I'm just super busy while I'm here. https://www.mothersdaystrike.com/
Apologies if it's already been discussed, I don't have time to review the thread 🙏
Anyway...I hope it's kosher to post this but a lot of energy is being directed to organizing a general strike action this Sunday, Mother's Day, for eight days, and women and men are both encouraged to participate. I'm not sure how this is gonna work out tbh, a lotta folks who won't risk Mom's disappointment on that day of all days. Maybe buy flowers the day before and cook her a meal instead of going out to brunch? 🤷♂️ The folks in charge don't seem to like it very much when we stop going out to eat and spending money! Seems like something that could actually make a dent if it gains enough steam?
Here's the website, if anyone has time to put together a thread and the mods are cool with it, please do!! I'm just super busy while I'm here. https://www.mothersdaystrike.com/
Apologies if it's already been discussed, I don't have time to review the thread 🙏
You missed an important word, which I added in the quote above. Let us look at the relevant data:
We are, allegedly, fighting for the survival of abortion rights, democracy, and other rights. We are, allegedly, in such dire situation that anyone whose highest priority is not addressed by the Democrats must fall in line. But somehow, we cannot spend the extra money to fund door to door canvassing (which turns out about 35% more voters per person reached), even though many Democratic races collected many millions (and sometimes tens of millions) more than they need.
we need more angry passion in our politicians
we need a lot of it
need to act more like warren and booker at a MINIMUM
get pissed, get other people pissed at the GOP
I regularly protest police encroachment and gentrification projects. I've protested drone warfare. I've also been threatened with arrest, in and outside of organized demonstration. I am part of an active Black mutual aid organization now. And I've given way too much fucking money and phone banked for the fucking Democrats, even after I've determined that I just don't like them that much. So I've both been on the streets and I've helped on the campaign trail. All you have on me is years of experience because you're older, but you don't get to posture as if I haven't done shit either.
Regardless, my specific problem with you, and others who constantly complain about non-voters, is that you refuse to engage with subsects of the population who don't vote specifically because the system has failed them, not because they're just entitled brats who didn't get their unicorn candidate. We all that know that a subsect of the population just doesn't vote. So the two questions we're left with are "How do we engage at least some of these people so they are primed and willing to vote?" and "How do we make sure they vote for our people?" We don't get to answering these questions with bitching about the fact that these people don't vote, or putting everyone who has failed to vote for one reason or another in this singular box of assholes who are too privileged or evil to bother.
This attitude also doesn't address the fact that the backsliding has been happening despite increasing national and even mid-terms turnout, and despite the fact that Democrats more often than not win the national popular vote. Clearly, there are systemic issues that are here that are not perfectly ameliorated even if you were to get 100% turnout, because we can outvote the competition and still lose anyway. Ultimately, we need to reconfigure the messaging and smartly engage with different demographics of non-voters, because if 30% of the population just regularly does not vote, and that has been the reality cycle after cycle, bitching about them obviously isn't going to do anything this time, nor is it going to do anything if Obergefell is about to go next. The straight middle-class white dudes who don't vote because they're subconsciously aware that none of this will affect their personal life is one thing, and arguably not even people worth pursuing in the first place. But Black and Brown folks who are disenchanted with the system because even their own candidates have failed them are still reachable, and thus they are worth our time. So that's what we should put our focus on.
And finally, I will say I am sorry for misjudging you. I took out my frustrations with this subject on you when it wasn't necessary.
If that speech by that woman in the north is any indication that's the plan.
It's going to depend on the state. The Supreme Court ruling (when it's made official) just makes it so that states can pass their own abortion laws again. Some have trigger laws that go into effect the moment the ruling comes down, so will pass bans in response, and the details of each. I believe Claire McCaskill tweeted that Missouri has a trigger law that will effectively make IVF illegal in the state.
I'm so sorry about what happened to you and your wife.
If it was actually murder, they'd be out in the streets every fucking day. They'd be burning down storefronts every fucking day. They'd fully be every accusation they leveled at the BLM movement. If there was really a holocaust of the unborn, then they'd be storming clinics with their arsenal of AR-15s like the Allies liberating Nazi concentration camps, but they aren't.
Thanks. It's like, I know these people are monsters, but is there any nuance in their thinking?
Honestly the whole experience really opened my eyes to how common miscarriage is. I think we're led to believe that miscarriage is this one thing, when in reality it covers a wide spectrum of circumstances.
I can't even imagine what a woman and their partner will go through if they aren't even able to take the necessary medical steps required after a trauma like that.
The problem is that the system has ALWAYS been failing everyone but cishet white straight men.
I have never been happy with a presidential candidate, never. Same for most other races. It's always voting for the least worst choice. I would like a far left president, the destruction of capitalism and policy that is anti-racist, queer and economically just. I think we should arrest and seize the assets of billionaires and actually fix the country. This is what I would like to have happen.
BUT we are in a shit ass situation in a shit ass country, that has a rotten, racist, colonialism and genocide as its DNA. People before us have had it WAY worse in many ways and when those people had choices to vote they did. So I cannot get down with people who won't do this one thing. I do understand the frustration and I do understand the obstacles that are there.
Honestly, I wish we could all just fucking rally and oust all of these motherfuckers and turn things around. Maybe things are going to get much worse before they're better but people who will take that on the chin the most are the people who are already most marginalized and I do not want to see that happen. So I'd rather try to turn the damn gas off on the pot we're being boiled in that to let it just cook us all.
You know the sad part? In a Latin American country like Panama, voting takes less than 10 minutes. Yet in the US it can take hours. And it is considered a developed country. Ironic that in a so called 'third-world country' has a better voting system than a 'first-world country'.
It's at least partially (and in a lot of cases largely, if not entirely) due to concerted efforts by the right to limit access/ease of voting in the first place (thanks for gutting the voting rights act, John Roberts!), but it's a disgrace, for sure.
So I mean, you got two classes of peeps, right? The ones that can afford to not vote, and the ones that can't afford not to. So, if you wanna win, you gotta try and appeal more to the peeps who can afford not to vote. If that is white cishet men, then you're gonna have to offer something on the table for those people. If that's offensive to you because they always get stuff anyway, then lose I guess, but don't scratch your head wondering why.
Again, for me, it's not even about being happy with a candidate, at any level. 99% of people aren't going to agree with a candidate on every single issue.
It's that, what do you tell populations of people who historically have voted for the lesser of two evils, and then those candidates then go on to proceed to do things that the constituency either didn't vote for, or they go back on their word and don't do things the candidacy wanted them to, or they do things later on in their term that the constituency didn't foresee and vehemently disagree with regardless, and subsequently the affected populations just, over time, give up on just having their basic needs addressed? Seriously, what do you tell people who live in historically Democratic strongholds but yet have nonetheless still suffered backslide?
That they're assholes? That they hate minorities, or even themselves? That they don't care?
Many of these people still fucking care. We need our Party to care about them.
If that, ironically, means more tempered candidates who don't promise shit they can't deliver, and are honest about what they can do, then so be it. I would rather someone in Atlanta who tells me that they're going to do x, y, and z and they have the means to accomplish that, rather than promise me the world and fail (or fucking lie about it) along the way. If it means doing a Stacy Abrams and addressing the systemic gaps in voter registration in areas, then we should've already have been doing that, and the fact that it took us until 2020 to actually get this kind of grassroots action to get some national attention is appalling. If it means refocusing our strategy to addressing issues of gerrymandering and legal challenges to voting, then yes, let's do that too.
To me, this is an issue that can be addressed most appropriately if you start actually laying out the conditions for people who have been not only legally but socially disenfranchised from voting to start voting again.
Uh, you need to check where you live. Voting happen multiple time EVERY YEAR. Favoring the federal level every 2 years stuff while ignoring the local level stuff is also why Conservatives have been able to rig the system.
And 30 minutes? Sure in my suburb or rural areas. But urban area- 8 hour + waits because the local conservative goverment have designed it to make it hard for liberal to vote, especially minorities who are the backbone of liberal movement.
Your not wrong, but you not right either.
what a wild time to (unfortunately) be alive
i'm the only progressive i know irl or online who is also against abortion (for secular philosophical reasons—sincerely wish i was for it, because being a pro-life progressive kind of sucks ass [and to clarify, i'd hollow out my gut with a tetnis-encrusted garden spade before ever voting R]). but any notions of prohibiting abortion needs to be paired with, by default, MASSIVE investments in:
sentience is such a terrible curse. give me an opossum brain transplant asap... no way that extremely limited mental toolset would be anything other than a massive upgrade compared to the emotional bullshit any decent human with an iq above 50 has to contend with in modern america
i'm the only progressive i know irl or online who is also against abortion (for secular philosophical reasons—sincerely wish i was for it, because being a pro-life progressive kind of sucks ass [and to clarify, i'd hollow out my gut with a tetnis-encrusted garden spade before ever voting R]). but any notions of prohibiting abortion needs to be paired with, by default, MASSIVE investments in:
- better sex ed
- easier access to contraceptives
- reforming foster care
- incentivizing adoption
- mental health services for pregnant women
- extensive, federally guaranteed paid maternal/paternal leave
- permanent (and generous) child tax credits
- a bunch of other utopian shit that sounds great but will never ever happen
sentience is such a terrible curse. give me an opossum brain transplant asap... no way that extremely limited mental toolset would be anything other than a massive upgrade compared to the emotional bullshit any decent human with an iq above 50 has to contend with in modern america
I'd point out that for instance, FDR wasn't very racially or socially conscious of a president but the black vote for him was when things began to turn around and the Dems became the "black" party. (to racist white folk)
His New Deal and agricultural policies are what turned the tide. It is frustrating when the Dems can't, won't or are unable to do more but what we do get is *far* more than the GOP will ever give. We got PPP, Covid stimulus and many other things that we never would have gotten under the GOP (Child stimulus). Yes, it could and should have been more and yes it wasn't perfect but those little things add up.
It ain't great and by no means is it enough but it's a start. It's far more than the GOP will ever give.
I agree. Why does everything have to be so fucking polished with these people? Can I get some frustration at least, Jen? Is that possible? I don't care how that old guy Biden feels, he is one of many democrats I can't stand... with their constant need for decorum, how do YOU feel about this?
I understand the frustration here, but at the same time... Jen Psaki is the White House Press Secretary. It is literally antithetical to her job to spout her personal opinion or emotionalize her response. She's acting as the voice of the administration when she's at that podium.
Look to the statements that Biden and VP Harris have made personally for an indication of how the administration feels. Blaming Psaki here is almost like bitching at the register person that the price of a coffee is so expensive at a coffee shop. Like that's their job.
EDIT: Also, lets check unconscious biases here. It's noticeable to me in this post that Joe Biden is "Biden" but Jen Psaki is "Jen."
It could be argued that in a life threatening pregnancy to save the woman over the fetus would be keeping more in following with Judaism, but in no universe do these people give a shit.
In some states that would definitely become illegal. My wife had to do the same thing when we were trying for our second.
They are on the streets every day, in front of abortion clinics and random places across the country - I've seen it many times with my own eyes. They have murdered doctors and promoted violence against people giving abortions. It's not to the extreme you're describing but it's not nothing.
Just a general note to the thread and nothing to do with any of the posts I quoted…
STOP FUCKING FIGHTING EACH OTHER!
you can be against abortion and not feel the need to influence, or worse, control the lives and life affecting choices of others.
and we as a society aren't realistically in a place to provide the list of things you suggest, let alone make reproductive choices for women. i mean, your last point really says it all. you know it will never happen. not in the context we need to solve existing problems.
So we really just should not. Stay in the chair, do not get up to boogie because nobody wants to see that dance.
Dance in the bathroom at home like a decent human being.
You right. I had a conversation with my sister today and I could hear the frustration in her voice. I'm just fucking tired of all of it. I'm no fan of Joe, but I understand his administration has done some good things.
Mental Health Check.
I strongly advise everybody to take a break from the internet. Misery attracts misery, and doom-posting can distort your reality in nasty ways that leads to counter-productive thinking and wasted energy.
If you cancelled fun activities because of the Roe v. Wade news, now is the time to resume. If you have time to channel your energy into protests and activism, you will not only help the cause but also make friends and feel mentally energized. Even a little bit of meditation and exercise can do wonders.
I am of the outmost belief that the Republican party and Fascists in general are an absolute evil that must be eradicated, but that is no excuse to let their hate corrupt you. Let them burn in their own shit, but don't allow yourself to get drowned with them.
Regards, and try to find fun wherever you can.
No, we're seeing the results of the democratic party destroying it itself to try and appeal to centrism while the right cements control and fights against voter's rights and frankly I'm tired of hearing them constantly whine about a need to vote while doing nothing to defend it.
Obama had a chance to cement many, many policies when there was a supermajority from 2009-2011. Look up the Freedom of Choice act that he had promised to sign the first thing he could as president! But instead he and the party chose to defend the pro-life democrats, give concessions to republicans watering down any policies and more. People aren't going to vote if the people they vote in don't pass policies they promised. Why should they? They're guaranteed to be voted in because they're not the other guy.
That supermajority had Joe Lieberman.
Who makes Manchin look like Sanders.
And there always will be, so their point still stands. If a single person/couple of people can hijack the whole party then what hope do we have.
I mean, this is how politics works in this country. A single person also fucked the Republicans out of repealing the ACA when they tried it.
I mean, there are two options. Within the system, elect more of the people who won't hijack the party so the Liebermans and Manchins become irrelevant. Or, somehow replace the system, which (despite the allure for some) is going to be bloodier and less likely to succeed than the first option.
Obama never had a supermajority for two years. He had 60 Democratic-aligned (but not all Democrats) senators for ~70 days total.
They'll not be Manchins/Sinemas until the moment they are, and with money in politics there's always someone to be bought to do a 180 on policy.
And I don't really care. They could've done away with the filibuster, they could've done more to force the other dems in line. Frankly I'm done of hearing excuses for why they can't do something because there will ALWAYS be an excuse.
I don't really care to hear about the rose-tinted views of the Obama presidency either because the 'largest overhaul of the American healthcare system' is still an abject watered down disaster that's half of the mess we're in today. If you think that's going to convince people to vote then you shouldn't be surprised when people don't vote.
It's hard to say for now, depends on what will be released by the Court and what will be precisely promulgated by each states.
I mean, feel how you want to feel, but "Obama had a supermajority for two years" is just factually inaccurate.
You keep pushing the Overton window further left.
Manchin is downright *liberal* compared to the Blue dogs of 2006-2012.
Ok then don't vote and then act shocked when things get even worse.
No, that's factually correct. They factually had a supermajority in 2009. Your attempts to argue that some people are DINOs is orthogonal to that fact, especially because the dem's do nothing about the DINO problem.
That's not how this works.
Seriously, an idea prevalent in this thread that is so frustrating, is that if a President gains a trifecta, that Congress just gets together and passes a "President's Agenda Bill" and it gets signed into law. And that if that doesn't happen, it's because the President was lying the whole time.
That's not how this works.
A President enters office, even with a trifecta, with a limited amount of political cache. Because they still have to build support. They still have to herd votes. they still have to persuade their party, many of whom are operating under a different set of priorities to please their specific constituents. It is not a hivemind.
That's not how this works.
And we just saw this with Trump! Trump ALSO had a trifecta! And guess what!?
He didn't repeal the ACA.
He didn't build a wall.
He didn't get an all-sweeping muslim ban.
Because he TOO had a limited cache, and had to prioritize and spend that cache. Such is the nature of American politics. And you can have a problem with that. Plenty of people do. But you're trying to make this emblematic of specific politicans, and that's not how this works.
That's not how any of this works.
The *voters* are the one's who put them there.
You don't seem to actually want a Democracy.
So your solution is option two, which is effectively "burn it all down?" If that 's true, I'm going to be candid here: I'd want to review the concept of operations. The universe of non-Republicans can't regularly even unify around a common purpose.
Again, cultivating infighting and apathy is the entire point.
The people voted in Trump as well. I'm assuming by your argument it's illegal to complain about Trump as well or else you hate democracy?