there is no amount of voting that fixes the damage that we see is about to be inflicted. Punitive measures will only go so far before they get ignored.
nah, just a shift to a union of nation states
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Politico: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
- Thread starter Smokeymicpot
- Start date
I mean, it's a bit of catharsis and ideological clout building in a sea of despair, but we all know the answer here: no
Which is also why I think people ascribing complex conspiracies to the motives of Republicans simply misses the reality, this is a party for the ultra wealthy that has ceased upon reactionary movements and coalitions as a means to secure and retain power.
There is no grand plan here, a useful motivator has reached it's natural conclusion and now the game shifts. And the fallout is not accounted for or concerned with. When social fabrics inevitably weaken in already impoverished communities and a generation of kids end up in a system incapable of caring for them, Republicans will continue advocating the bootstrap prescription while running on taking a hard line on any of the predictable rises in criminality and social unrest their policies create, on pointing to their political outcomes as justification for further racist policies and beliefs.
The whole "Just vote!" argument assumes the institutions are fine and it's just the people running them that are bad. When the whole system is broken, voting can only fend off bad policy until someone awful eventually wins the vote.
So, yeah, I vote, but it's not like that's making the system work any better.
So, yeah, I vote, but it's not like that's making the system work any better.
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I still don't understand what you're saying here. Where are the people who can't be bothered to vote? And why does their existence justify our suffering at the hands of the oppressor?
And what do you mean "about this life"? You mean, sick and tired of being crushed under the heels of those who hate me and made my life a living hell and a good chunk of the people who should be unified to oppose the enemy instead blaming me and millions and millions of other like me for our oppression because I live in a "red state"? I honestly don't understand what you mean.
Fair and open elections is something that polls well on both sides of the aisle. It's about how it's pitched. Most republican voters are not very sophisticated. You tell them that this the way to keep blm out of their elections and they will pass it with flying colors.
The deck is stacked in their favor thanks to our antiquated electoral system. I really wish more people would call it out for how inadequate it is.
The rich have happily tied abortion rights to their own interests because they know it's more likely to pass that way.
They know they can always get it if they need it.
Relying on voting as a response to oppression is foolish and flees from more impactful actions. It is not a useful conversation. Sure, go on and vote, but stop gnashing about it and move it down the list of imperatives. On a top ten list, casting a vote once or twice a year should be near the bottom.
I agree redistricting would be a good thing but a huge gap still remains when the all judicial processes lay within the Senate which is more favorable to Republicans. Even if redistricting gave Dems a much fairer shot, it doesn't address this problem.
Unless we have 2 kings like Sparta we'll still be one state I would think. Flip a coin on which one will benefit which side
I can't add any more emphasis for this. There are so many people online who roleplay as revolutionaries rather than do the BARE MINIMUM needed for change all while adding gasoline into the fire.
The rich have happily used abortion as a tool to advance their no-tax, dismantle the Federal Government agenda. Meanwhile they hop on a flight to get an abortion where it's legal.
Joke's on them because red states will 100% criminalize their residents going to another state to get an abortion. Make no mistake – they're gonna ram personhood through and red states will say that 1-day old fetuses are residents of their states
This has become increasingly more clear the past year or two. We are two very different groups of people living in the same country.
orly?
explain how my city, Houston, has more people living in it, than the entire state of Kentucky? yet the sr senator from kentucky got to block anything the dems passed before 2020 after they took the house in 2018?
Insane but unsurprising. He had probably written that shit decades ago.
that's the most fucked up thing about it.
they want it to be about states' rights if they can't control the federal congress.
but as soon as they have control federally, they want to enact legislation that they want to override the will of the states.
Stop neutering your own power! Even if this is absolutely true, what advantage is there at all in espousing this? Seriously, think about it! There is nothing to be gained whatsoever from spreading this!
That is likely to be the case for many. I hope and wish for a better future, but paying attention to what is happening right now is important to mitigate how the negative things sure to come will affect us.
I feel like the far right and their ruling class are preparing for the harsh world to come by seizing absolute power to subjugate the masses by force.
Yeah
Yeah
Fair. Again, I'm not going to defend the rich. Let's just be focused on the fact that this is the result of republicans and evangelicals.
Then what did you mean? I literally don't understand what your disagreement with what I posted was. Please explain. I'm not being flippant here.
The people wealthy and educated enough, sure, but go look at a map of African Americans during slavery and 100 years later. The lack of migration is eye opening.
And one of the sociological reasons this is explained is that when the boot is pushed down harder and harder on a communities neck, it simply erodes both the avenues through which you can make life changes and makes a person more dependent on their network of family for basic survival.
That would require a brand new constitution. There aren't enough votes in purple states to reform their elections. And lol at doing that in red states. Meanwhile blue states are doing it and ceding extra votes in the House because it's 'the right thing to do.'
You can't play by the rules and expect to beat back fascism.
Yes, I know it will never happen, I saw it as a rhetorical question :) You are absolutely on point with the everything you wrote as far as the leadership is concerned, but the conservative ideology embraced the religious right and it is slowly becoming partr of the political fabric as well. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that we are on the receiving end of a religious reckoning they have prayed for. I am most certain they will pin this victory as Trump's legacy and continue to deify the man.
That's not gerrymandering. That's just how the Senate works. Statewide elections for 2 senators. Nobody is changing the shape of Texas and Kentucky to make it more likely for one party or the other to have more senators.
I think the Blue nation within the nation will largely ignore the red one and function sovereignly with the red one ignoring this so long as their bills get paid.
It does in the fact that states determine their own election laws.
Look, if the voters of a state want to elect fascists, it's their right to do so. But they do not have the right to disenfranchise the opposition. Which is what we are seeing today. The state laws on elections are purposefully preventing certain groups from voting. By completely changing state houses we change state election laws making our elections more fair and less open for malfeasance by special interest groups.
To make real change will take years. Decades even. But if we start today we can make a difference for the future of this country.
And yet, Democrats can't even pass simple election reform and Republicans have been deeply mobilized against it while supporting or rationalizing their party's illiberal reforms in states across the country, so maybe this logic isn't as soundproof as you are framing it
I made that post. I vote in every election. Shut the fuck up.
That's just how the senate works which is a huge problem on its own, but Gerrymandering is specifically about congress districts re-drawings.
It's "States' rights!" with any sort of civil liberties, but it becomes 'we must act according to God's Will (TM)' as soon as there's an opportunity to turn one of their ideologically-based rallying cries into action via law.
You can't 'argue' with the moral/religious....'assuredness/superiority' they've somehow convinced their voters that they have.
It's not 'technically' active gerrymandering (since that is done within the state itself), but choosing to select positions of extremely valuable, and limited, political power based off arbitrary land allotments, by nature gives power to the minority group in a very similar, if not essentially the same, way.
Minimal engaging democracy should be at bottom of our list is sure a weird and tone deaf take given the recent events. But yeah sure its not like elections have consequences or anything. Better to start uprising that will lead to military junta amirighte?
And no nobody is saying just to vote. But voting is single biggest power you have. That's how you got Roe, Casy, Civil Rights, Gay marriage and various important rights as law in the first place.
And frankly even if some of you got your revoltion and new system, given your attridue towards voting you would just back here in again in couple decades. That is the fundamental problem.
Wasn't Dakota being split into two states considered gerrymandering? And Republican being opposed to statehood for DC and Puerto Rico would be a failed attempt at gerrymandering.
Yes I understand what DOMA was. My point was that Reublicans are not afraid to make a federal issue out of marriage, and this court is openly attacking the idea that marriage is even a right in the first place. If it's not a right, then Congress can pass legislation like DOMA. It's not purely a state issue because he federal government can deny you things with discriminatory intent even if all states legalize marrigage between the same sex (which multiple states would be quick to ban again).
Because it's their self interest at stake. Why change the rules that got them there in the first place.
The petition process was created to give a check on a legislature no longer serving its people.
We cannot expect the current crop of politicians to make the change. So let's put something on the ballot that WE create. And don't have to depend on the folks currently in office to do the right thing.
Great strategy if you're entrenched. Constantly lie about other people, and every time say you were lied to. People are hopeless dopes sometimes.
My impression is more that we need to know what we can't do to start getting to something we can. In my original post I brought this up mainly bc I really don't think it makes sense to advocate revolution like it's around the corner if we can't do that in any practical terms.
Measure before we cut basically. But if your response is something more like "don't rule it out without discussion" I suppose that's valid
I think women should call for a nation wide general strike. I hope they do. Let men that try to take away their autonomy understand the power that they have.
It's not just about congress. It's about the state senate and assemblies too. Which is where
1. State election law and who gets disenfranchised is created.
2. It's THE farm system where future congressman and senators cut their teeth.
Redistricting is so much more than how Congress is chosen. It sets the stage for the entirety of political divisions in our lives.
And we can control the narrative because there are more of us than there are of them.
Telling others to vote lets people shift the blame when things don't go "our way". I don't even disagree that more people need to vote and vote regularly, but as someone living in an R+26 district in one of the reddest states in the country, I can understand why people get fed up with it and feel like their vote doesn't make a difference, especially when Republicans in this state and similar states are actively trying to make it harder for people whose votes would actually make a difference to vote.
A constitutional amendment at this point, but even then SCOTUS could just reinterpret it. It's a living document only when they say it is.
You'd need 2/3 of congress or 2/3 of all state's governors to support a constitutional amendment.