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bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
Bro what am I supposed to do vote harder for Biden than I did the last time? Do you realize how much of the court's decision is the result of decades of ineptitude, indecision, and feebleness from the democratic party, specifically Joe's people? Like goddamn how can you think the dems deserve unwavering commitment after watching them fail in a 30 year struggle to protect a basic right that the rest of the entire developed world ensures?

How does your "vote harder" correlate with withholding votes? If you voted in every election and can't vote harder, you did not withhold votes and the message wasn't for you. Millions of people do sit out during midterms, during local elections, and they sat out in 2016. If the same number of people showed up in the 2010 and 2014 midterms as 2008 and 2012, Merrick Garland would be a justice instead of Neil Gorsuch and we wouldn't be in this situation.

If the people sit out and the senate majority shifts to Republicans after the upcoming 2022 midterms, you can guarantee Mitch McConnell will make it hell for Biden to nominate any further Supreme Court justices should one retire or die.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
Sigh. Well progressives, will women suffer enough now for you to vote? Or do we have to wait till they come back for your precious weed?

Thankfully I am beyond breeding and have a husband that will approve of any medical procedure science deem I need. For I two month, my body will not be my own. True freedom in America only exist for white men.

But I cry for the younger generations who were told no way Roe could be overturned. They bought into the lie that freedom cannot be taken away, so don't fight to keep it. They bought into the lie only progressives could can things. Well, only progressives didn't do squat.

It's incredible how people look at how Republicans did this, how Democrats did absolutely nothing to stop it, and blame progressives. Let me also remind you:

www.salon.com

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy

An email released by WikiLeaks shows how the Democratic Party purposefully "elevated" Trump to "leader of the pack"

The memo articulated a three-point strategy. Point 1 called for forcing "all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election."

"Many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right," the memo noted.

"In this scenario, we don't want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more 'Pied Piper' candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party," the Clinton campaign wrote.

As examples of these "pied piper" candidates, the memo named Donald Trump — as well as Sen. Ted Cruz and Ben Carson).

"We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously," the Clinton campaign concluded.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
I'm simply explaining what Obama promised. I'm aware of how a bill becomes law.

And again, blame Congress. Unless you believe Obama was lying and wouldn't have signed a bill codifying Roe v. Wade into law if Congress had the courage to actual produce said bill.

A candidate campaigning for President can only campaign on their intent and what they intend to do. But again, a President is not a King/Queen. They need Congress to actually play ball.
 

dots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,889
Best destroy that filibuster
Ending the filibuster is the worst possible step the Democrats can take now. Any codification of Roe is getting overturned by the court. Can you tell me what enumerated power the codification would fall under? It it important to keep the filibuster in because anything meaningful you do with removing it will be overturned by the court, and the Republicans are lined up for majorities and the presidency in 2024. The only thing Democrats will have to slow down or stop any Republican legislation (i.e. a nationwide abortion ban) is the filibuster.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,822
Imagine pointing the finger at the ever nebulous progressive bloc and not, you know, white people collectively since this country has been built and it's supremacist ideologies still perpetuated by the one population who is virtually in control of everything.

Doesn't really matter which side of the aisle you want to blame, because ultimately we wouldn't be in this mess if white people had long since culled their bigotry in their own space.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,604
Then let's also ensure the party bears some blame for putting out a candidate that people didn't actually want.
Clinton won the primary. Should the Democrats have ignored that? Just picked someone else for no reason? They picked the person who won the primaries, she won a record amount of votes in the end. The choice at that point was between a plain racist/fascist or someone who was not the perfect unicorn candidate for some people. Trump didn't win PA, MI, and FL because of voter suppression, he won them because people wanted Trump or couldn't do the bare minimum to prevent a backsliding of rights in this nation.

If someone is a 'progressive' and didn't like Clinton but still voted, and votes in every election, or they were disenfranchised, then I don't blame them. They tried at least, they met their responsibility.

But I will and repeatedly blame every single person who *choose* to sit out 2016 regardless of how 'safe' their state was just as much as every single person who choose to pick Trump. This blood is on their hands, not the Democratic party's, not Clinton's, not those who showed up.

I wasn't attempting to veil this. I thought this was largely accepted. Lots of Americans think they're on the left, but globally Democrats are only barely and sometimes left of the center. Sometimes on social issues... and then there's everything else.

My senators are Ed Markey and Elizabeth Warren. My Rep is Ayanna Pressley (who primaried another progressive, long seated Rep). You're going to tell me they're just barely left of center? If that's the case who in the fucking WORLD is actually more than 'only barely' left of center and has any power?
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
No, my ire is properly directed on this board. This claims it is progressive, yet shrugs off minority issues. It loves to blame minority and women for not voting, despite the fact that is still white males who rule this country. Black women are the backbone of the Democratic party, but they are wrong. White males have the power, but love ignoring their role in politics. It is never asked why white males do anything- but women and minority decisions are torn apart and are the cause of their own suffering.

Everything is going to continue to regress until the true problem is looked at and resolved- whites men. Why is the majority of people who are against women right to choose white men. Why do men of all strips believe only women are responsible for the outcome of sex? Why do men believe they have the absolute right to fornicate when every they choose without judgement, but women are whore and their bodies need to be regulated by God, men, and the goverment?

We agree that the board is terrible with minority issues. Your issue seemed to be with Progressives who didn't vote, that's not the majority of the board.

We agree that white men are the problem.
 

El_TigroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,208
New York, NY
Ending the filibuster is the worst possible step the Democrats can take now. Any codification of Roe is getting overturned by the court. Can you tell me what enumerated power the codification would fall under? It it important to keep the filibuster in because anything meaningful you do with removing it will be overturned by the court, and the Republicans are lined up for majorities and the presidency in 2024. The only thing Democrats will have to slow down or stop any Republican legislation (i.e. a nationwide abortion ban) is the filibuster.


I know what you're saying, and in a level-headed environment, getting rid of filibuster takes a way a protection to stop and slow opposition; however, I think if the Republicans take control, they will absolutely shred filibuster immediately and steam roll.
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
Metro Detriot
It's what we do best. The circular firing squad continues, while the regressives win victory after victory.

This. It has been tiresome trying to convince people holding the line and incremental progress is the best we can to until we have retaken more that just 50 seats. But no, people who rather throw away all the gains made because they treat politics and freedom like it is a spectator sport.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,559
It's incredible how people look at how Republicans did this, how Democrats did absolutely nothing to stop it, and blame progressives. Let me also remind you:

www.salon.com

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy

An email released by WikiLeaks shows how the Democratic Party purposefully "elevated" Trump to "leader of the pack"
People often mention this, but I don't understand what is so scandalous about it. The Clinton campaign thought that an extremist candidate would be off putting to the general electorate, which would help their chances. This was like, elections 101 shit that you'd see play out in elections across the country for decades. They erred because because Trump's brand brought out previously dormant right -wing votes and didn't turn off enough regular GOP voters, but these tactics don't strike me as eye opening.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,095
Sydney
And again, blame Congress. Unless you believe Obama was lying and wouldn't have signed a bill codifying Roe v. Wade into law if Congress had the courage to actual produce said bill.

A candidate campaigning for President can only campaign on their intent and what they intend to do. But again, a President is not a King/Queen. They need Congress to actually play ball.

He was lying, yes. If Congress gave him a bill he would have signed it but he lied about how much political capital he wanted to spend to get it done, and obviously the lie he told Planned Parenthood when he was running it would be the first thing he'd do is a bald faced lie.

Whether or not people think it was a justifiable lie, I guess is something everyone has to decide for themselves.
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
821
It's what we do best. The circular firing squad continues, while the regressives win victory after victory.

It's just so frustrating that we keep falling back to this tactic for whatever reason and then it affects voting morale. "I'm not voting for this person because they didn't do what they said."

No, they didn't do what they said because you have people like McConnell sitting there on his golden throne that was just sort of handed to him and we need a stronger front to say no to his bullshit by continuing to vote at every opportunity as a united front.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
People often mention this, but I don't understand what is so scandalous about it. The Clinton campaign thought that an extremist candidate would be off putting to the general electorate, which would help their chances. This was like, elections 101 shit that you'd see play out in elections across the country for decades. They erred because because Trump's brand brought out previously dormant right -wing votes and didn't turn off enough regular GOP voters, but these tactics don't strike me as eye opening.

It's one among the many examples of things where democrats did stupid stuff that backfired, or actively contributed to making things worse, and yet progressives are to blame somehow.

Also a total lack of reading the room as to the political climate and increasing radicalization of the tea party.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,622
The World
It's incredible how people look at how Republicans did this, how Democrats did absolutely nothing to stop it, and blame progressives. Let me also remind you:

www.salon.com

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy

An email released by WikiLeaks shows how the Democratic Party purposefully "elevated" Trump to "leader of the pack"

Because in 2016 almost everybody including even the people leading the GOP Senate and House at that point thought there is no way all these people would vote for Trump. So elevating him made sense, Trump was deemed poison for the down ballot GOP candidates.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,051
a reminder that when abortion is made illegal in a majority of states, rich white people will still be able to get them discreetly just fine. this is all meant to target the most vulnerable communities of color, sexual/gender diversity and low income.

They want as many non-white non-christian pregnant people to die as possible or for their families to struggle more specifically because of this.

No, the point of this is to force younger couples into the social net of a church. They want you to be 18 with a child and no future and low income so you go to church to rely on them for handouts like it was 60+ years ago.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
as a non-American who casually follows American politics, im still truly baffled by Leftists who refused to hold their nose and just vote for icky Clinton to block Trump from getting power.

it was obvious even observing from afar that Trump would nominate far-right religious nutters to the SC, and that Clinton most certainly would not. WHY wasnt that enough of a reason to vote against Trump..? i truly dont get it. when Trump was campaigning he literally said women who get abortions should get punished. i dont understand how people didnt rush to vote against him, even if the other option was any random person.

now America is stuck with religous extremist anti-freedom SC judges for who knows how many decades.. its depressing even to me and i'll most likely never set foot in the country.

is there any way to stop abortion becoming illegal now? what can be done about the judges?
No, it is pretty much stuck as you fear. It is very, very unlikely we have the votes to codify Roe before the hammer drops.

How on earth did we go from blaming Republicans to blaming Democrats to blaming Obama now?
Why would Obama/leftists/RGB/Biden/Hillary do this!?
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927
He was lying, yes. If Congress gave him a bill he would have signed it but he lied about how much political capital he wanted to spend to get it done, and obviously the lie he told Planned Parenthood when he was running it would be the first thing he'd do is a bald faced lie.

Whether or not people think it was a justifiable lie, I guess is something everyone has to decide for themselves.

So you really think that if Congress had managed to pass a bill codifying Roe v. Wade into law, that Obama wouldn't have signed it?

I mean, ok. You're entitled to that.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
If someone is a 'progressive' and didn't like Clinton but still voted, and votes in every election, or they were disenfranchised, then I don't blame them. They tried at least, they met their responsibility.

But I will and repeatedly blame every single person who *choose* to sit out 2016 regardless of how 'safe' their state was just as much as every single person who choose to pick Trump. This blood is on their hands, not the Democratic party's, not Clinton's, not those who showed up.
Yep, that's the gist of it.

No one should be blaming the people who actually showed up to oppose Republicans at the ballot box.

There is plenty of appropriate blame for those who claimed to support women's rights but never turned out to defend them. We all knew what was at stake.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
He was lying, yes.

Whether or not people think it was a justifiable lie, I guess is something everyone has to decide for themselves.

What evidence do you have that Obama would not have signed a Roe bill passed by congress? Could he predict that his senate majority would not be filibuster-proof?

Is Bernie lying about M4A every time he talks about it since there's no chance it gets passed in a 50-50 senate?
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,927


What is this?

Republicans didn't actually implement half of their agenda.

The ACA still exists.
There is no wall.
There is no all-sweeping Muslim ban.

The only legislative success the Republicans had was the tax bill. Everything else was approving judges and eroding government institutions. Which, not to downplay the seriousness of that, but Sirota is deliberately lying here. Which is par for the course with Sirota.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,095
Sydney
So you really think that if Congress had managed to pass a bill codifying Roe v. Wade into law, that Obama wouldn't have signed it?

I mean, ok. You're entitled to that.

No I believe he would have done that.

I believe he lied when he told Planned Parenthood the first thing he'd do if elected was sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

I don't think he ever had any intention of doing that.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
I don't know what it's going to take to enact change but a lot of people are running out of options if this continues.
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,368
There's a myriad of reasons why 2016 went the way it did but at the end of the day it's not a piece of media you need to spend hours trying to crack mystery of.

The solution is to organize and fight back in whatever way you can whether it be locally or nationally. It's never too late to do so.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,559

Well on the federal level, Republicans aren't really interested in making laws, just rolling back rights and cutting taxes. While not controlling Congress and the White House, they can just let the courts do most of their dirty work.

And on the state level the GOP is running most of the show.

I guess I'm saying it's only weird if you don't realize our government is more than Congress and the presidency.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
How does this make sense considering how Florida has voted in every election since?

Y'all, 2016 was 6 years ago. We have data to debunk these talking points now.
These aren't talking points, this is what happened. Hillary lost FL by a slim 1.2%. Trump made a dent with Haitian voters, due to Hillary's post-earthquake actions in Haiti. The greedy geopolitical choices Dems made overseas came back to haunt them back home.
 

TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,065
Yes, I would. Because we have the numbers. But leftist, progressives, dems, same people, all of them are too busy fighting amongst themselves to do anything positive. We are here because they refuse to unite in the face of obvious fascism. And now, only white men are truly free in the country. Truly free to continue return the nation to white, elite rule over everyone else.
Democrats allowed anti-abortion members in the party.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,084
Why do people think Congress passing a law would have any impact anyways? This ruling states specifically you have no right to privacy, and its not a reserved matter for congress. The court would just find congress doesn't have the authority to implement such a law?
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,715
So you really think that if Congress had managed to pass a bill codifying Roe v. Wade into law, that Obama wouldn't have signed it?

I mean, ok. You're entitled to that.
I think pretending the President sits on their hands all day waiting for Congress to decide its own business with absolutely no input or badgering from the President is a soft lie, and lets the President off the hook for not corralling their party into line and/or for promising to do things they knew they would not expend political capital to get done.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
What is this?

Republicans didn't actually implement half of their agenda.

The ACA still exists.
There is no wall.
There is no all-sweeping Muslim ban.

The only legislative success the Republicans had was the tax bill. Everything else was approving judges and eroding government institutions. Which, not to downplay the seriousness of that, but Sirota is deliberately lying here. Which is par for the course with Sirota.

I would say half of their agenda is stacking the Courts so they can do things like overturn Roe v. Wade. The Federalist Society literally exists for this kind of thing. They don't really have much of a Legislative agenda.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
What is this?

Republicans didn't actually implement half of their agenda.

The ACA still exists.
There is no wall.
There is no all-sweeping Muslim ban.

The only legislative success the Republicans had was the tax bill. Everything else was approving judges and eroding government institutions. Which, not to downplay the seriousness of that, but Sirota is deliberately lying here. Which is par for the course with Sirota.

Yeah, Republicans have been living off of reconciliation since 2006. They haven't passed anything except tax cuts for the rich, and only within the limitations of reconciliation bills.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
I would say half of their agenda is stacking the Courts so they can do things like overturn Roe v. Wade. The Federalist Society literally exists for this kind of thing. They don't really have much of a Legislative agenda.
Their legislative and executive agenda is to concentrate power and enact policies and regulations that upwardly transfer wealth and protect favored industries/businesses/wealthy individuals.

And in that framework the Republicans are essentially running a 40 year unchallenged dynasty.