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Otheradam

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,221
The lack of participation from the Democrats and Independents is unlike on the Republicans side.

The R's vote religiously for their candidates. D's don't. For whatever reason.

Turnout has always been a problem for Democrats. It's because I just want to live my life. Not like republicans who actively want to sabotage and make any non white and poor people have it worst. These people are so hateful they build entire institutions dedicated to taking away people's rights instead of helping.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,375
Like I get the desire to play the blame game. We've seen this happen so many times these last six years, and I'm sure in this week we're going to be getting a lot of bad opinion pieces on who's fault this really is, but like... don't ya'll get tired of it?
 

MorganFreakman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
352
Doesn't a lot of the reason that the Supreme Court holds this much power is because Congress refuses to legislate anymore? Like Congress is allowed to pass laws and with state cooperation even amend the constitution. Instead they haven't done anything really in decades.

The Supreme Court has historically been mostly a conservative body. Black voting rights were held back decades because of it. Eventually laws were made around this.

Also while of course the Republicans and Mitch McConnell are to blame for this, I'm still pissed off at the number of things Dems managed to let slide. RBG should've retired when asked under Obama. Dems should've codified Roe v Wade into law. Dems should've done a much better job of holding up McConnell Court appointments. Like if McConnell could sit there and hold up nominations for a year, Dems couldn't have come up with a dumbass excuse to hold up Barrett's nomination for like 40 days?

I also do think folks thinking this country is just dead is a bit hyperbolic. I'm extremely pissed off too, but just saying "we're doomed" is just giving up. Thankfully laws aren't permanent and let's put up a fight on this. If you're able to vote in the US, you have no excuse now
The strength from the Supreme Court partly comes from Congress' inaction. It also comes from the fact that they are the final say for what is and what isn't "constitutional". They are the ultimate veto within the 3 branches of goverment
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,910
If this is inevitable I really hope it spawns some of the largest demonstrations we've ever seen and results in a massive defeat of Republicans everywhere next election.

Remember the pink pussy hats of 2017?

The Woman's March that year was, and continues to be, the largest single demonstration the world has ever seen.

What was the result?

More white women voted for Trump in 2020.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,926
As far as I'm aware, Dems aren't the ones trying to take away your rights. But sure, fuck the Dems.

Instead of blaming people, you all should be looking for a way so in the future the zealots can't pass their abhorrent agenda.
You're so close. All you need to do is connect the dots between your first and second paragraphs.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
Just so we're clear about what's next here, what other social rights have conservatives hated similarly to Roe? Gay rights and the ACA are likely the next things to be destroyed. Is interracial marriage also a target? The fact I even has to ask that is absurd, but America sucks ass and this is something the Christian fascist movement has a real issue with.

Abortion is one issue that Americans' opinion hasn't moved substantially on since the 90s. On gay marriage/rights, thankfully both liberals and conservatives have moved to the left by about 20 points. ACA has already been heard since Barrett joined the court and the status quo was upheld.

Gun rights is probably the next target for conservatives since it has been more polarized.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,068
Arkansas, USA
That's literally what's derailed universal healthcare ever since FDR tried to do it way way back.

This same mindset also ties back to abortion rights. With the birthrate being too low to replace the white population they can't exactly pay just white women to have babies. So instead they'll just force all working class women to carry their fetus to term. Where they can either be put up for adoption (to sexually abusive evangelical freaks like the Duggars) or they'll be part of the working poor underclass. More blood and bodies for American fascists to profit from.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,241
Skimmed the opinion and not great. At the very least it's a highlight of the roadmap they're laying out for future "controversial" cases.

Yeah, introducing "there's no historical precedent for these specific civil rights so they're fake" as Supreme Court precedent is, if you'll excuse my language, Real Bad
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Dems should've done a much better job of holding up McConnell Court appointments. Like if McConnell could sit there and hold up nominations for a year, Dems couldn't have come up with a dumbass excuse to hold up Barrett's nomination for like 40 days?

You really should just stop posting about politics, lest you write something this catastrophically stupid and ignorant again and inflict it on innocent people like us.

Democrats lost the Senate in 2014. They only regained it in the Georgia special elections.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
No chance. There's no defensible Christian/Jewish philosophy behind banning interracial marriage, unlike abortion and gay marriage. And the modern US conservative movement is based on winning epic debates using Christian/Jewish philosophy.

Plus they need their multiracial coalition of conservatives for the future.

They will argue that states should be able to ban it. Just as Alito wrote about Obergefell and Lawerence.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,880
Just so we're clear about what's next here, what other social rights have conservatives hated similarly to Roe? Gay rights and the ACA are likely the next things to be destroyed. Is interracial marriage also a target? The fact I even has to ask that is absurd, but America sucks ass and this is something the Christian fascist movement has a real issue with.
Interracial marriage is 100% safe since Thomas is in one himself. Separation of church of state is next up and Obergefell will come soon after that. There's not enough meaningful stuff left in ACA for it to face a serious challenge, as bad as things are, they're still going to choose their battles somewhat, and they'd rather save a little bit of extra public trust to ensure scotus can steal the 2024 presidential election if they need to.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,041
Like I get the desire to play the blame game. We've seen this happen so many times these last six years, and I'm sure in this week we're going to be getting a lot of bad opinion pieces on who's fault this really is, but like... don't ya'll get tired of it?

No, I don't.

The Dems suck at politicking. They suck at drafting legislation. They even suck at retiring (RBG) and this is the culmination of their ineptitude.

Yes, we all get it the Repubs are evil, etc. But we *knew* that going in. Reading the letter that RBG wrote to the Senate before she passed made my fucking head spin. She honestly expected McConnell to do the right thing? Are these fucking people paying attention??
 

Iron_Maw

Banned
Nov 4, 2021
2,378
We hope better hope 2022 goes well for the dems. Plan to be getting my ass out helping with the vote, but I live in blue MA so there isn't much I can do beyond phone banking and donations.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827


Its recorded history of leaks dates back to mid-19th century. Some leaks have commented on a decision after its release. Others have provided accounts of personal relationships/conflicts among the justices. And, yes, some opinions have leaked before release.

Consider the 1852 case Pennsylvania v. Wheeling and Belmont Bridge Company. Ten days before the Court handed down its decision, the New York Tribune reported the outcome.

Two years later, the bridge case returned to the Court, and again the Tribune scooped the justices before they made their decision public. Later that year, the Tribune published a running account of the deliberations in Dred Scott.

Historians have speculated that these leaks came from Justice John McLean, who authored the first bridge opinion before dissenting in the second one, as well as Dred Scott.

More recently, in 1968, New York Times reporter Fred Graham wrote a story about Justice Fortas's extrajudicial activities to support the Vietnam War, after a law clerk leaked the details to Graham.

The 1970s brought a wave of leaks. First, Justice Douglas in June 1972 wrote a memo to his colleagues about Roe v. Wade. Somehow, it reached the Washington Post, which published a story about the memo and the Court's inner deliberations.

Then, Time magazine published a story about Roe v. Wade before the court announced it, reporting the outcome and the vote. Infuriated, Burger demanded a meeting with Time's editors, chastising them for scooping the court.

The chief justice believed a law clerk was to blame, so he ordered all clerks not to speak to reporters. This resulted in what became known as the "20-second rule": Any clerk caught talking to a reporter would be fired within 20 seconds.

In 1977, NPR penetrated the justices' conference by reporting that they had voted 5-3 not to review the convictions of three defendants in the Watergate cover-up cases.

The story, obtained by Nina Totenberg and confirmed by the New York Times, also reported that Burger had delayed the announcement of that decision so he could try to recruit the fourth vote necessary to review the convictions.

A couple years later, Burger was still fighting leaks. In 1979, he reassigned a typesetter at the Court's printing office after concluding that the typesetter had leaked nonpublic information to ABC correspondent Tim O'Brien.

Not long before, O'Brien had reported in advance the outcome of a case involving the right of courts to question reporters about their thoughts during the editorial process. O'Brien then broke another story in 1986, when he scooped the justices on a decision re: budget balancing.

O'Brien reported that on a particular day the Court would strike down a key part of a law. He was right about the outcome but not the day. Years later, a UPI reporter said Burger intentionally delayed the decision: "Burger was ticked off and just wanted to stick it to...O'Brien."

Other leaks have been more retrospective. In 2004, for example, a group of law clerks from the 2000 term leaked to Vanity Fair the details of the secret deliberations in Bush v. Gore.

And then, of course, there are the books: The Brethren, by Bob Woodward and Scott Armstrong; Closed Chambers, by Edward Lazarus; Sorcerers' Apprentices, by Artemus Ward and David Weiden; Supreme Conflict, by Jan Crawford; The Nine, by Jeffrey Toobin. Etc.

Relying on sources inside the Court, each book in its own way pulls back the curtain and invites you to explore life, politics, and conflict at the Court.

Even more recently, CBS's Jan Crawford reported in 2012 that Chief Justice Roberts voted to strike down the heart of the Affordable Care Act before changing his mind and siding with the court's liberal bloc.

All of which is to say: Supreme Court leaks are rare and remarkable, but they are not unprecedented. I've done some research on this, and I'm just sharing for anyone who might be interested in this wider context. /end
 

Treestump

Member
Mar 28, 2018
8,364
Pro life until they're born then fuck 'em numerous ways. We're going fucking backwards and it is frightening.
 

kess

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,020
The people doing the evil should always be the core to blame, but evil people can do their evil often because of the inaction of those who are 'good.' I don't really see the issue in pointing that out. It may not help anything, but nothing that is occurring right now in this topic is really helping anything.

The fault, as it stands, is that there has been failure to act proactively on a whole host of issues. Death from a thousand cuts, every fault magnified by what is, frankly, an outmoded constitution.

Might as well blame FPTP, the idiotic lifetime appointment system and John Fucking Marshall.
 

CerealKi11a

Chicken Chaser
Member
May 3, 2018
1,956
I think the idea of independent voters is imaginary and due to many can't wrap their minds around how bigoted and right wing most of America is. Yeah, someone is going to give me stats saying various leftist ideals poll well in Evangelicaltown, USA. But guaranteed if those questions added "…and black people would get these protections too" they would change their answers quick.
Yeah I've lost all benefit of the doubt for people. Even if they say their worry is "gas prices and inflation", they're still operating on a mindset that is clearly about what impacts their place on the social ladder, because anyone with a basic understanding of logic would know the President has fuck all to do with that. It's just their axe to grind, and they'd find another one if that wasn't it.
 
Dems should've done a much better job of holding up McConnell Court appointments. Like if McConnell could sit there and hold up nominations for a year, Dems couldn't have come up with a dumbass excuse to hold up Barrett's nomination for like 40 days?
No, because McConnell had the majority; that's why he was able to block Obama's appointment, and why he was able to make Trump's happen. If you have a majority in the Senate you can do basically anything if you have sufficient will and unity.
 

Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
Mitch McConnell's legacy is secured. He can feel free to die any time now.

msmagazine.com

Merrick Garland, Amy Coney Barrett, and the “Two-Faced,” “Duplicitous” Republican Senators - Ms. Magazine

In 2016, eight months was a rush for Republicans. But now six weeks is plenty of time to put a new justice into a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court.
www.pbs.org

On Night Ginsburg Died McConnell Pushed Trump to Nominate Barrett

An excerpt from FRONTLINE’s ‘Supreme Revenge: Battle for the Court’ goes inside Sen. McConnell’s swift maneuvering to achieve a 6-3 conservative majority.
 
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Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,910
No, I don't.

The Dems suck at politicking. They suck at drafting legislation. They even suck at retiring (RBG) and this is the culmination of their ineptitude.

Yes, we all get it the Repubs are evil, etc. But we *knew* that going in. Reading the letter that RBG wrote to the Senate before she passed made my fucking head spin. She honestly expected McConnell to do the right thing? Are these fucking people paying attention??

This implies that people don't know the shortcomings of the Democrats just because we don't waste time focusing our shots on them.

Oh, yes, we know where the Dems fall short.

For a lot of us, that is so not the point right now.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
I'm wondering why Alito for the opinion and not Barrett. I thought the idea of the GOP putting a woman on the court was so they can point to her and say, "see, she's not a man and she decided to end Roe." Or maybe they just don't give a shit about appearances anymore.
Probably to spare a new justice from the attention of writing a majority opinion for such a major issue.

Dems should've done a much better job of holding up McConnell Court appointments. Like if McConnell could sit there and hold up nominations for a year, Dems couldn't have come up with a dumbass excuse to hold up Barrett's nomination for like 40 days?
No! Jesus does this stuff drive me up a wall. McConnell could hold up the Garland nomination for a year *because he controlled the Senate*. Who controlled the Senate when Barrett's nomination was up? Still McConnell!

It's a numbers game. Either you have the numbers to make things happen (or not happen) or you don't. Dems did not have the numbers until literally last year. A minority party cannot stop court confirmations. Coming up with dumbass excuses to do something only works if you have the votes to back it up. Dems did not have the votes when it came to Garland, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, or Barrett.

And if you're looking for someone to blame for that besides republicans, well, I'm sure there's a lot of people reading this thread who did not vote in 2014.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,810
White people collectively steering this country into the fucking ground. And all because y'all too fucking scared to reprimand the racism and bigotry that festers in your communities.

Fucking despicable.
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
If I hear one more person try to say there are no differences between Democrats and Republicans...

Sad sad sad. That's all I have to say. :(
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,362
At some point we have to accept that conservatism, as an ideology, cannot be reasoned with. It's incompatible with progressive goals. No amount of arguing, persuading, or cajoling will convince conservative voters to change their tune, because, as people keep saying, "the cruelty is the point." There's a huge bloc of Americans, maybe a majority of Americans, that are fundamentally bad and will vote for fundamentally bad people.

That's why people blame Democrats - when the tiger gets loose, you don't blame the tiger, you blame the zookeeper. The tiger will always be a tiger: you either contain it, or you kill it. You can't change its nature. The zookeeper is the person that we've entrusted with the responsibility of keeping us safe. If they're incapable of doing so, they're not worthy of that trust. If you think it's "our" responsibility, instead, you have to question why we have zookeepers at all.

But the reality is, there's no reality where Democrats in the 21st century have the means to keep us safe. They'll always have one hand tied behind their back, because the structure of our government rewards ruralism and conservatism and reactionary policies. Democratic politicians (on an individual basis) are either incapable of changing that system, or unwilling to do so, but the result is the same in either case: nothing happens.

Vote, for sure. Vote every election, every primary. You'll be treating the symptoms, and the symptoms are BAD. But electoralism isn't capable of addressing the fundamental issues. America is not going to elect enough Senators willing to, say, reform the Supreme Court. And America isn't going to elect enough Senators to reform the Senate enough to adjust the underlying system to put the means to reform the Supreme Court in place. We're just changing the bandages.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,926
Might as well blame FPTP, the idiotic lifetime appointment system and John Fucking Marshall.
I came to the conclusion many years ago that the USA's failure in the manner it's been failing was inevitable and baked into its structure from the start. All it took was for people to sit back and watch it play out instead of fixing it.
 

sprsk

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,449
Women are about to lose fundamental control over their bodies and trolls are up in here trying to shit up another thread with Democrat hate.

Shameful behavior.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,240
New York City
If there were more D than R on the supreme court this wouldn't have happened. That's all there is to know really.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,375
That's why people blame Democrats - when the tiger gets loose, you don't blame the tiger, you blame the zookeeper. The tiger will always be a tiger: you either contain it, or you kill it. You can't change its nature. The zookeeper is the person that we've entrusted with the responsibility of keeping us safe. If they're incapable of doing so, they're not worthy of that trust. If you think it's "our" responsibility, instead, you have to question why we have zookeepers at all.

I'm curious what your idea of "Kill the tiger" is in this situation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
This is a really horrible consequence of not protecting our rights. This outcome is the product of many years of democrats failing to take seriously numerous threats along the timeline; we knew this would happen, and now it has. The worst part is, frankly, we're headed towards Republicans taking back congress and possibly the executive branch. This is going to be a really, really hard couple of decades.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,910
That's why people blame Democrats - when the tiger gets loose, you don't blame the tiger, you blame the zookeeper. The tiger will always be a tiger: you either contain it, or you kill it. You can't change its nature. The zookeeper is the person that we've entrusted with the responsibility of keeping us safe. If they're incapable of doing so, they're not worthy of that trust. If you think it's "our" responsibility, instead, you have to question why we have zookeepers at all.

This analogy doesn't work...because we're not talking about fucking tigers.

Republicans are not animals and Democrats are not zookeepers. Think about that.

Think about the space you're giving to Republicans to continue to be heinous, the blame you're shifting to Democrats for not being able to tame the untamable, and the space you're giving Independents to just not engage.

People really want to engineer this to be Democrats' fault NO MATTER HOW IT GOES, and that is so exhausting. Because in so many demonstrable moments we're the only lot who give a shit.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,041
User Threadbanned
This is a really horrible consequence of not protecting our rights. This outcome is the product of many years of democrats failing to take seriously numerous threats along the timeline; we knew this would happen, and now it has. The worst part is, frankly, we're headed towards Republicans taking back congress and possibly the executive branch. This is going to be a really, really hard couple of decades.

You can't cast any aspersion against the Dems.

Even though I'm not quite sure why.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,852
I know the headline is Roe Vs Wade, but the actual reasoning in this draft is damn scary by saying the 14th amendments "due process" clause doesn't mean what previous rulings have said it does. The due process clause has been used as the basis of gay marriage, contraception, interracial marriage, other discrimination lawsuits, etc...
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,287
The Stussining
No chance. There's no defensible Christian/Jewish philosophy behind banning interracial marriage, unlike abortion and gay marriage. And the modern US conservative movement is based on winning epic debates using Christian/Jewish philosophy.

Plus they need their multiracial coalition of conservatives for the future.
They don't actually give a shit about Christian and Jewish philosophies though. They like the fake brand of it they have been sold to by for profit churches and pasters with political aspirations. The terminally online right wind racist nutjobs who are obsessed with winning epic debates are irrelevant. They would happily contradict themselves if it meant they got a "win" in their head.
 
I'm not dumb, I've known republicans are evil since I learned what republicans are. I bring up things like RBG because I don't want to situations like that happen again. You know, maybe at some point in the future where America somehow survives this shitty chapter and we still have the SCOTUS exist, maybe there'll be a time when a justice looks back at history and says, "hey I did a lot of good work, but maybe it isn't a bad idea to try and secure my seat when I have the chance so shit doesn't fall apart from just one election."