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Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Tell us about them... Specifically if you don't mind. Direct comparisons should be possible considering we have the names.



Why would we take any of them out? People are responding to possibilities of similar appointments in this very same thread with the same extreme reactions. Don't backtrack it or "Oh that's different" this. Stand by it and at least draw comparisons if you want to change minds. Keep that same energy. And while you are doing it, keep in mind theres a lot of Presidents in that gap. And yes, I have their appointments on deck too. If you want to play this game, Im going to hold you to it. For all of them. Its only fair.

Article is horseshit anyway. May as well go full crazy with this.
we can circle back to this when we see who gets what and maybe i'll be wrong and you'll be right that this is nothing. But if some of the names being floated get in at state or treasury or energy, education, the fcc or tons of more actively compromisable posts i think it's worth poting out that the argument of FDR did it doesn't hold water not only because it was a different time but more crucially because they were a qualitatively different kind of appointments.
 
Oct 25, 2017
32,298
Atlanta GA
I admit it's probably not the right term to use, but far leftists online attacking Biden is already causing impressionable people online not to vote or vote 3rd party, because they believe he is the same or as bad as Trump and nothing will change under a Biden administration. Not sure what else to call it.

voter depression would be a more apt term but you're still a bit off the mark here.

there is targeted voter depression from bad faith actors in this election for sure. but it's not random people criticizing Biden on messageboards for the most part. it's an organized effort.
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
I want to be very clear. I support all of these needs. But in this current moment, i support winning by any means necessary even more. I am making an argument AGAINST apathy in this moment of greatest need. But, i wholely agree the US NEEDS universal income, legalized marijuana, and a thorough enema of the republican party.

But that cannot and will not happen if Trump isn't defeated right now, and if Biden's current plan is what it takes to meet the current crisis, then I feel all this discussion does is foment apathy.

To be frank, all the fucking liberal excuses you see in this thread engender this sort of resentment and apathy. I think it speaks volumes to the underprivileged that white affluent folks are all-too-willing to throw people under the bus so that they could go back to a time where all these issues that have plagued the American populace remained under the rug while they have brunch. It is evidence that they could not be counted on as allies.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Grr, why isn't the world idealogically pure like my YouTube videos?!
Democrats have a very large ideological spectrum actually as evidenced by this thread. Big tent and all that.

Being against inviting Republicans into his admin has nothing to do with wanting Biden to remain "ideologically pure" and has everything to do with there being no net benefit while just normalizing a party that is against giving me and mine (lgbt+ community) basic civil rights.
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,525
I admit it's probably not the right term to use, but far leftists online attacking Biden is already causing impressionable people online not to vote or vote 3rd party, because they believe he is the same or as bad as Trump and nothing will change under a Biden administration. Not sure what else to call it.
how do you people reconcile the leftists being losers who dont vote enough or are too small of a population to matter and cant get their guy to the nomination with this view that theyre just so super important to getting biden into the presidency. help me understand why you guys get mad over this tiny population of insignificant voters man
 

JaredTaco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
Win the election first.

Robert Gates stayed on as Secretary of Defense, which I thought was fine during the transition from George W. Bush to Obama.

I don't think it's so crazy putting a Republican in one of the cabinet spots, but whatever. Focus on the election. Think about this later.
 

GrantDaNasty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,001
Fuck off, Biden.

"return to normal" is too goddamn right.

"most progressive policy in Democrat history" up until he gets in, then it's back to what worked*

*the rich, powerful and influential don't give enough of a shit to fight back.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
Huh? That's not an excuse, that's literally reality as they see it. Joe Biden has been preaching unity for months. This is in his wheelhouse of stuff he does. Obama did the same thing with Bob Gates 12 years ago! And the GOP was the same racist GOP back then too.

How old are you people? Damn. This isn't news lol...

Bernie (and lol Gravel!) is the obvious exception, not the rule. 🤦🏻‍♂️

It can and will change as younger people get more involved and vote. That's my point. We've only grown up under Reagan and terrible GOP rule. That's not necessarily the same for Biden and ppl in his cohort that have been in the Senate since the literal 70s!

That doesn't make it right. Don't get me wrong there.
I wish I could find the quote online, but there's a part in Malcolm X's autobiography where he talks about having hope in the younger generation, using pretty much the exact same language people use today. I get what you're saying but at some point we have to face the fact that young people are not going to save us - there have always been young people. Some bad, some good. There also bad and good old people. There are demographic trends but age ultimately means nothing when it comes to what makes a politician good and I don't think it's worth focusing on.

It's more relevant than bitching about a rumor of a supposed republican joining his cabinet as proof "nothing will change."
Sorry, are we supposed to shut up and be good little voters until it actually gets confirmed?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
Fuck off, Biden.

"return to normal" is too goddamn right.

"most progressive policy in Democrat history" up until he gets in, then it's back to what worked*

i.e the rich, powerful and influential don't give enough of a shit to fight back.
Which is why it's important to continue activism in protests and politics on the local level, pushing for change.
 

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,794
There is nothing wrong with vetting candidates, if anything its wise as you try and peel off voters in PVI +R states. If someone asks to be considered for a position, why wouldn't you start vetting?
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
voter depression would be a more apt term but you're still a bit off the mark here.

there is targeted voter depression from bad faith actors in this election for sure. but it's not random people criticizing Biden on messageboards for the most part. it's an organized effort.
I'd say the people that still parrot on Biden's "inability to speak" is something of note. Not sure what it would be labeled, but it still gets posted even on era. It did in the debate thread.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
voter depression would be a more apt term but you're still a bit off the mark here.

there is targeted voter depression from bad faith actors in this election for sure. but it's not random people criticizing Biden on messageboards for the most part. it's an organized effort.
I think the thing is bad faith actors amplify these types of messages across social media causing more people to criticize Biden.
how do you people reconcile the leftists being losers who dont vote enough or are too small of a population to matter and cant get their guy to the nomination with this view that theyre just so super important to getting biden into the presidency. help me understand why you guys get mad over this tiny population of insignificant voters man
The amount of 3rd party voters who voted for a gorilla or Jill Stein in 2016 in swing states could have swung the election to Hillary.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,013
We've done this song and dance before. It's not expunging the records of marijuana related offenses. It's only possession.

It does not include using and dealing.

It literally says drug use in the article you're quoting.

Dealing will always be a tough sell federally because of its close attachment to racketeering and illegal firearms.

While full legalization (with strong protections for minority communities, alongside grants for small business owners) is of course preferable, let us not minimize the criminal justice aspect of the conversation, which should be the focus of all marijuana related discussion.
 
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medinaria

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,544
I have no problem criticizing Biden. But it's abundantly obvious ya'll look at this rumor as 'proof' of what a Biden presidency will look like to justify your criticism, while conveniently dismissing direct action and comments from Bidens campaign when he's trying to appeal to ya'll.

"I don't believe him" when he says something you like.

"See, this is proof!" when it's a rumor from Politico.

I mean....you are arguing you have a right to criticize Biden.....because of a rumor...and you think that's perfectly normal and not intellectually dishonest bullshit.

it's fucking wild that people like you seem to think "well you believe SOME things but not OTHERS" is some kind of weird gotcha. of course we do. we have 47 years of evidence of who joe biden is. we all know who he is. america knows who he is. that's like, almost the entirety of why he won the primary in the first place. when things come out that comport neatly with the evidence we have for who joe biden is, it's right to go "hm, yeah, that seems like joe biden, I believe him". when things come out that seem incongruous with biden's history, it's right to go "hm, no, that doesn't seem like joe biden, I don't believe him".

I'm sorry that we're not credulous dipshits that just blindly believe whatever we're told, I guess?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
I want further left policies as well and Biden is in no way my ideal candidate, but the thing alot on the left don't understand is trashing Biden right now is a form of voter suppression. Words matter and I've seen leftists say they are voting 3rd party or not voting because Biden isn't their perfect candidate. This helps push other people not to vote. Get Biden in and then fight from the left against a President who has shown a willingness to listen to your ideas.
You're joking right?
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
God I hate Biden's wishy washy moderate nonsense. This is why we need more young people running for office. They wouldn't do this shit.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
To be fair, leftists blame themselves for losing ele


It literally says drug use in the article you're quoting.

Dealing will always be a tough sell federally because of its close attachment to racketeering and illegal firearms.

While full legalization (with strong protections for minority communities, alongside grants for small business owners) is of course preferable, let us not minimize the criminal justice aspect of the conversation, which should be the focus of all marijuana related discussion.
The problem is dealing also includes "intent to sell" which is a bullshit charge that the 12 can throw on anyone they feel like.
 

hachikoma

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,628
You've given more praise to Mike Pence than you have to Biden or Harris judging by your post history. If Biden is your favorite candidate you have a hard time showing it.
I'm a queer trans woman activist, I voted La Riva (PSL), and not only do I have no idea what you're talking about re: Pence but I really resent it.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,135
Sorry, are we supposed to shut up and be good little voters until it actually gets confirmed?

Are you proposing a better alternative?

But you replied to me talking about the thing talking about voting? Like just because I replied to you doesn't entitle you to reply with whatever you want to lol

Perhaps you should read my original post then and how voting was clearly related to what I was responding to.

Or, you know, don't just jump into arguments and then complain when someone responds to you.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
"Most progressive platform in history" now excuse him while he looks for Republicans to put on his cabinet.
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
To be frank, all the fucking liberal excuses you see in this thread engender this sort of resentment and apathy. I think it speaks volumes to the underprivileged that white affluent folks are all-too-willing to throw people under the bus so that they could go back to a time where all these issues that have plagued the American populace remained under the rug while they have brunch. It is evidence that they could not be counted on as allies.

I mean, I think your statement is generally true.

I don't necessarily think it applies to this current situation though. When i consider what "stepping back" means, i consider it only and exclusively meaning we don't jump off the ledge into far-right fascist authoritarianism. ( or at least we catch ourselves since we're arguably on the way down).

Biden will have a LOT of policy challenges to answer to after November. But for RIGHT NOW, we have to answer to the challenge of getting Trump out, or we're guaranteed that nothing will be done.

But also, whenever we get into these threads, we conveniently ignore that all the progressive darlings (and i use that term only as a descriptor and in no way in a derogatory manner) are openly backing and pushing for Biden because they to understand the argument I just made.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Are you proposing a better alternative?



Perhaps you should read my original post then and how voting was clearly related to what I was responding to.

Or, you know, don't just jump into arguments and then complain when someone responds to you.

The beginning of the discussion is that we should wait until after the election to criticize. That has nothing to do with people not turning out.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,699
I admit it's probably not the right term to use, but far leftists online attacking Biden is already causing impressionable people online not to vote or vote 3rd party, because they believe he is the same or as bad as Trump and nothing will change under a Biden administration. Not sure what else to call it.
"Not the right term?" It's a completely ridiculous statement that enflames things and completely shits on leftists' right to civic discourse, which is the proper term for attacking a political candidate.

If someone listens to an argument and decides that Biden is not worth voting for, oh fucking well. There's only 6% of undecideds a few weeks out at this point, which is not enough to swing an election with this big of a margins gap anyway. This shit is locked in. The outcome has already been decided.

Regardless, no one's vote is being physically or legally suppressed by people criticizing Biden. To use that terminology is fear-mongering.

This is the same shit that always happens in this godforsaken country. Leftists get told to be quiet until after the election because they're "ruining everything," after which when they ask for some sort of handout, they're told that the candidate has too much on their plate and can't possibly compromise. Ultimately we're not welcome in the party unless we acquiesce to the moderates. This shit is infuriating.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,135
it's fucking wild that people like you seem to think "well you believe SOME things but not OTHERS" is some kind of weird gotcha. of course we do. we have 47 years of evidence of who joe biden is. we all know who he is. america knows who he is. that's like, almost the entirety of why he won the primary in the first place. when things come out that comport neatly with the evidence we have for who joe biden is, it's right to go "hm, yeah, that seems like joe biden, I believe him". when things come out that seem incongruous with biden's history, it's right to go "hm, no, that doesn't seem like joe biden, I don't believe him".

I'm sorry that we're not credulous dipshits that just blindly believe whatever we're told, I guess?

The irony of calling me a credulous dipshit while admitting to pick and choose what you believe based on preconceived perceptions is certainly....something.
 

PunchyMalone

Member
May 1, 2018
2,249
Not even a little surprised, we had fucking Colin Powell at the DNC. My hope is that enough progressives gain power in the next midterms to take the party over. If not I hope they leave to build their own party.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,061
eh they said this about Obama, and romney and stuff. went nowhere
???

Obama did EXACTLY this stuff, and his administration ended up paralyzed and worse off for it.

It engendered no appreciable gains from moderates that werent already on his side.

It was exploited as a weakness by Republicans, who used their unified opposition as a bludgeon to undercut his bi-partisan message, energize their base, and control the narrative about Obama being a divider as opposed to a uniter. Often, like in the case of Roy LaHood, LaHood would side with the disingenuous Republicans and undercut the administration he was employed in. Carrying on their bullshit blame into the present.

Functionally it meant the organizations he appointed them to took a rightward shift. Where the Republicans he appointed are also responsible for some of the worst lingering criticisms of his administration.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
User banned (1 week): Antagonizing another poster and implying they are a stealth Republican over a series of posts. Threadban adjusted to a week ban after review.
I'm a queer trans woman activist, I voted La Riva (PSL), and not only do I have no idea what you're talking about re: Pence but I really resent it.

You said this


pence is better at this than harris is

in the debate thread. I haven't seen you compliment Biden or Harris at all in your very limited post history over the last 3 years, but if you can show examples since they are your favorite candidate that would be great.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
it's fucking wild that people like you seem to think "well you believe SOME things but not OTHERS" is some kind of weird gotcha. of course we do. we have 47 years of evidence of who joe biden is. we all know who he is. america knows who he is. that's like, almost the entirety of why he won the primary in the first place. when things come out that comport neatly with the evidence we have for who joe biden is, it's right to go "hm, yeah, that seems like joe biden, I believe him". when things come out that seem incongruous with biden's history, it's right to go "hm, no, that doesn't seem like joe biden, I don't believe him".

I'm sorry that we're not credulous dipshits that just blindly believe whatever we're told, I guess?
So you are literally saying you believe what fits your narrative of Biden.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
I can't wait for Biden to win so liberals have to stop using Trump as a cudgel against the left.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,975
NC-USA
Some of you need to get fucking real. Cabinet positions are a negotiating tactic. It's incredibly normal and necessary in our current climate, especially if a Biden Administration needs bipartisan support for the more progressive parts of his platform if the democrats don't regain a Senate majority.

There is also a huge difference between vetting and appointing.
 

etrain911

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
"Not the right term?" It's a completely ridiculous statement that enflames things and completely shits on leftists' right to civic discourse, which is the proper term for attacking a political candidate.

If someone listens to an argument and decides that Biden is not worth voting for, oh fucking well. There's only 6% of undecideds a few weeks out at this point, which is not enough to swing an election with this big of a margins gap anyway. This shit is locked in. The outcome has already been decided.

Regardless, no one's vote is being physically or legally suppressed by people criticizing Biden. To use that terminology is fear-mongering.

This is the same shit that always happens in this godforsaken country. Leftists get told to be quiet until after the election because they're "ruining everything," after which when they ask for some sort of handout, they're told that the candidate has too much on their plate and can't possibly compromise. Ultimately we're not welcome in the party unless we acquiesce to the moderates. This shit is infuriating.


I totally agree. It's so aggravating to be told to wait. This is when Biden is the most impressionable, this is when we have the leverage to actually push him to the left!!!! And we're told to shut up, get in line, and then use one of the pre-approved avenues of discourse to make demonstrable and tangible change to a party apparatus that neglects us at best and hates us at worst. It's fucking brain-breaking.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
"Not the right term?" It's a completely ridiculous statement that enflames things and completely shits on leftists' right to civic discourse, which is the proper term for attacking a political candidate.

If someone listens to an argument and decides that Biden is not worth voting for, oh fucking well. There's only 6% of undecideds a few weeks out at this point, which is not enough to swing an election with this big of a margins gap anyway. This shit is locked in. The outcome has already been decided.

Regardless, no one's vote is being physically or legally suppressed by people criticizing Biden. To use that terminology is fear-mongering.

This is the same shit that always happens in this godforsaken country. Leftists get told to be quiet until after the election because they're "ruining everything," after which when they ask for some sort of handout, they're told that the candidate has too much on their plate and can't possibly compromise. Ultimately we're not welcome in the party unless we acquiesce to the moderates. This shit is infuriating.
Fucking preach
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
it's fucking wild that people like you seem to think "well you believe SOME things but not OTHERS" is some kind of weird gotcha. of course we do. we have 47 years of evidence of who joe biden is. we all know who he is. america knows who he is. that's like, almost the entirety of why he won the primary in the first place. when things come out that comport neatly with the evidence we have for who joe biden is, it's right to go "hm, yeah, that seems like joe biden, I believe him". when things come out that seem incongruous with biden's history, it's right to go "hm, no, that doesn't seem like joe biden, I don't believe him".

I'm sorry that we're not credulous dipshits that just blindly believe whatever we're told, I guess?

This is fundamental to Joe Biden's politics, the reaching to the right. We've got a 47 year sample size. At this point people arguing that he's running a progressive campaign are just being intentionally disingenuous.
 
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