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Político: How Bernie won the most prized endorsement in Democratic politics from his hospital bed
- Thread starter brainchild
- Start date
The suicide squad better watch their backs. I've read the badass brigade is nipping at their heels
THE FIRST THING I SAID IN MY POST WAS THAT IT WAS TOTALLY FINE TO PREFER WARREN. My point, which I think is valid, is that "not giving a fuck" is a strange, if unsupported , criticism.
Stubborn.
Old and out of touch.
Not perfect on guns.
Too far left.
Not the sharpest
Etc.
Sure
That's no social ju-jitsu, that's what supporting someone honestly while not in their faction looks like. AOC is liked by people who aren't leftists. How's the divide and conquer strategy working for you so far?
I thought stubbornest was something the left loved about him? I don't see how those aren't valid complaints, Bernie isn't a saint with no flaws.
OP
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All those things he listed he's saying are valid complaints compared to "not giving a fuck" about black people.
This.
Trying to reply to every shitpost ain't good for your mental.
After last night, I turned around. Warren failed on several issues, especailly on foreign policy and on explaining how to pay for healthcare.
Bernie however bluntly said straight out, you taxes will go up, you premiums will go down, you will pay less.
And Bernie's answer on Foreign Policy on the Syrian Kurds versus the Turks situation was one of the best answers on that issue.
Bernie however bluntly said straight out, you taxes will go up, you premiums will go down, you will pay less.
And Bernie's answer on Foreign Policy on the Syrian Kurds versus the Turks situation was one of the best answers on that issue.
AOC is basically preaching to the choir though right? It would never happen, but someone like Obama endorsing Bernie would be a much bigger deal since he has a crossover audience.
Bernie's the one that's trying to get people who don't usually vote to the polls. Warren's just tapping into the same market.
Bernie will probably win over a lot of independents in the Midwest too and his outsider image helps him.
The others are all neoliberals besides Warren. He should definitely be either everyone's #1 or #2.
Older votes go to trump. Look at the difference in turnout numbers between 2016 and 2018
It'll stop Sander's leftist support bleeding to Warren and might start Warren's leftist support bleeding back to Sanders.
Glad to see this. Our AOC cult gathering is coming up. We'll get you set up with a robe and i'll pm you the details.
Well, firstly most of Sanders voters aren't going to be leftists. If you remember for the longest time Biden was that group's second choice.
Also, Warren's rise has come at the expense of mostly Harris and small dips for everyone else. It doesn't look like leftists leaving Sanders are his problem. His problem appears to be that his base hasn't grown throughout the campaign.
Genuinely curious what makes you as a black man feel Warren more, since by that statement it makes it seem that she is more in touch on racial issues. Forget their rhetoric for second, what policies make her more up your alley?
Alexiswrite: You have any proof for that view? Because it seems to me that Warren has for sure gained at the expense of Sanders...at least here in the UK she has gotten far more positive coverage from liberal news papers than Sanders. Most or all of which have nothing to do with her being more progressive policy wise, and mostly to do with her being more acceptable to the ideological positions of the news papers (i.e., the Guardian, Independent, New York Times, etc) She has had a massive boost from that segment of the media. While Sanders has gotten a lot of the Corbyn treatment.
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It could just be that he feels that Warren communicates her understanding of racial issues better than Bernie. A lot of black people feel that way, regardless of policy.
Obama is not going to endorse anyone until there's a winner. Ex-presidents almost never endorse until that point.
I could see the AOC endorsement driving some folks from Warren back to Bernie. There's a bunch of folks who were with Bernie in 2016 who are with Warren in 2020 and who like AOC a good bit.
Fair enough...I suppose I am not in quite the same camp as I am mixed race born in a majorly white context....but I view these things as intersectional. Racial inequality is bound up with income inequality, and climate justice, etc, etc. I also think Sander's is unfairly treated on this issue, and don't really see how Warren has been any more of a champion for minorities. In fact her indigenous gaffe was pretty bizarre given how educated she is...but everyone makes mistakes, and I don't think it was malicious at all. Ill advised
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I'm black and I agree with you. However, many people in the black community want candidates to bring a tailor-made message to the black community, as the intersectional approach can feel too universal. Bernie definitely understands this now and has adapted accordingly by talking about how broader issues intersect with racial issues, but the damage from his previous run has already been done in the minds of some black voters.
Polling is what I'm using to support my point:
RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination
RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination
On average, Bernie is 2 percentage points from where he was at the start of the race, Biden is 1 points or so from where he was at the start of the race, but Warren has increased by like 18 points. None of her rising periods seem to coincide with a downturn for Bernie. Therefore, it doesn't seem like there's been a lot of shift from him to her.
Polling is what I'm using to support my point:
RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination
RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nominationwww.realclearpolitics.com
On average, Bernie is 2 percentage points from where he was at the start of the race, Biden is 1 points or so from where he was at the start of the race, but Warren has increased by like 18 points. None of her rising periods seem to coincide with a downturn for Bernie. Therefore, it doesn't seem like there's been a lot of shift from him to her.
That doesn't prove that she hasn't gained at the expense of Sanders...obviously many votes are to play for...In most cases candidates aren't looking to finish the campaign at the place they started with unless they are starting with an unassailable lead...
You need to go into more detail to explain what I'm missing here. What other hypothesis do we have evidence for which matches that graph?
Interestingly, most modern polls use cell phones, but the response rate has absolutely *cratered* from around 36 percent in 1997 to like 6 percent today, thanks to both societal and technological shifts. As such, major polls are more and more unreliable. Complex mathematical models can help, but...who knows, at this point?
Older voters go to everyone because they vote, not every old person in the Democratic party or independent voted Trump.
The hypothesis is that since Sanders hasn't particularly gained in the polls, nor lost substantially, and there is cross over between Warren and Sunders in terms of position (with Warren ostensibly adopting a number of positions Sanders has espoused), then she has been gaining at the expense of Sanders...it is not rocket science...They are going after many of the same voters.
How has she been gaining at the expense of him though? I don't see that. Is your idea basically that because they have similar positions the voter pickups that she's been getting (from other candidates) are ones that he would have gotten if she wasn't there? If that's the case then it seems really presumptive.
But Bernie already has the young voters that believe in the too good to be true campaign promises. They should have backed Warren, this country needs a first of many women president.
Or it'll turn into another Bernie-or-bust movement when he eventually loses the primaries.
If you think Sanders' plans are too good to be true then let me tell you about Warren's plans, because they're just as unlikely to pass. And the country does need a female President, I just don't believe that that should ever be anyone's primary criteria for deciding who to support.
I honestly don't know why people keep assuming Bernie's going to get win because he's going to bring out all these hidden first time voters that the polls don't reflect, again. Didn't happen last time, no reason to believe it'll happen this time. It'd be great, but to state it as something that will happen, nah.
User Banned (5 Days): Trolling, accumilated infractions
Confirmed: Bernie is dick cancer
Since you asked I will tell you. Criminal justice reform is a real thing. Ever since she been running Senator Warren has had a real plan to deal with the real issue of criminal justice reform and racial inequality. She has a real plan to deal with both and has recognized since she been running that "economic reform" would not fix all our issues.
You're right that they'll be incredibly hard, if not impossible, for Warren. However, between the two of them Warren is the one with the wonk no-how and ability to work with the Democrats to a higher degree than Bernie will in the same position.
One can argue Sanders is better at appealing to such states and I doubt AOC would hurt him there. His issues doesn't seem to be there.
None of that has been aimed specifically at the black community. You're also ignoring his missteps with the black community. You giving him a pass there is why you dont understand.
Not all of it was Obama's fault. (White rage counterwave of racism)
But:
Neoliberal policies continuing to increase wealth inequality
Increased erosion in confidence on Democratic party ( big money influence, too big to jail, war crimes)
Lack of leadership on DNC fundraising and campaigning
Constant pandering to gop
Lack of action and transparency on Trump corruption and crimes due to fear of McConnell calling him partisan.
Supporting and incredibly weak dnc candidate that lost to Trump.
Etc
Primaries arent held in 50 states? 50% of democrats arent moderate to conservative leaning? Ridiculous.
Actively writing off the black southern vote in 2016. Warren still has an oppurtunity to not make that mistake even though many of her supporters currently have the same "dont worry about appealing to them, black people will come along when they see they have no choice" mentality.
Eh depends on the scenario I think. If Congress is close I think Warren will be the better President on passing bills, if we have a split Congress still I think neither's passing anything of substance, if we get Supermajorities then Bernie all the way. It's not like Bernie or Warren would be writing their bills themselves so I don't concern myself with who's better on the details, though I do agree and think Warren is sharper on that front.
If I was truly altruistic I'd say Bernie would be the best for the world even if we didn't retake the Senate just on his foreign policy stances.
It would be interesting to see what would happen to the party if a President Sanders supported progressive challengers during the midterms like Trump does. Conventional wisdom would say that'd go nowhere as we don't fall in line like Republicans do but it'd be interesting. Because on one hand I do agree, Sanders is still a party outsider and many times not a team player, which should hinder his ability to get things passed if we have slim margins in either chamber but I don't remember a time in recent memory where a Democratic President went to war with his own party and made people fall in line or lose their seat. It didn't look like Trump would have pulled it off yet he did, but I imagine that had more to do with the party's voters than it does Trump's personality. But I kinda do want to see it tested.
Regardless, if he can't pull his numbers up he's not capable. I'll never think the primary was rigged against him and I'd happily vote Warren as well, she is a great candidate.