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Pokemon Sword and Shield are even worse in hindsight
- Thread starter DongBeetle
- Start date
One of the biggest issues with Sword and Shield is admittedly something likely out of the hands of the actual game designers and developers - how obviously the campaign was rushed out the door. Which is really saying something, considering pretty much all of the recent games had been rushed with needless almost yearly releases (especially all of Gen VI), yet Sword and Shield stand head and shoulders taller. There's just no excuse, period, for how the last ~1/3rd of the campaign completely loses all momentum to the point of lacking an entire town and lacking an actual 8th gym.
And it's a shame because, unlike (broader strokes of the Gen VI games but) Sun/Moon in particular, which has a major identity crises of trying to put a new twist on the formula and have an exotic, nonlinear setting with an explicitly linear "today's kids, with their mobile phones and the internets, have no attention spans or problem solving abilities" design philosophy, Sword and Shield actually organically combine the "modern" campaign design direction with the game systems. The Galar League itself is a really cool approach. And I'll definitely take a more obviously linear campaign where you still have a modicum of agency and sense of what the world looks like over constantly being teleported around (though not excusing how boringly easy SwSh is with relatively short routes/no dungeons between towns etc). I haven't played any of the DLC yet but do hear that it's an improvement in world design.
The other end of the problem are some other broader issues. I'm flabbergasted how Gen VI is still the best online experience in terms of everything just being there and not having any hoops to jump through to play with your friends etc. And Dynamax is a horrible gimmick. It's a major annoyance how the apparent need to throw a huge wrench into combat every generation + having been indecisive on how to add more "new" pokemon without actually increasing the dex size has caused so much chaos the last few generations.
And it's a shame because, unlike (broader strokes of the Gen VI games but) Sun/Moon in particular, which has a major identity crises of trying to put a new twist on the formula and have an exotic, nonlinear setting with an explicitly linear "today's kids, with their mobile phones and the internets, have no attention spans or problem solving abilities" design philosophy, Sword and Shield actually organically combine the "modern" campaign design direction with the game systems. The Galar League itself is a really cool approach. And I'll definitely take a more obviously linear campaign where you still have a modicum of agency and sense of what the world looks like over constantly being teleported around (though not excusing how boringly easy SwSh is with relatively short routes/no dungeons between towns etc). I haven't played any of the DLC yet but do hear that it's an improvement in world design.
The other end of the problem are some other broader issues. I'm flabbergasted how Gen VI is still the best online experience in terms of everything just being there and not having any hoops to jump through to play with your friends etc. And Dynamax is a horrible gimmick. It's a major annoyance how the apparent need to throw a huge wrench into combat every generation + having been indecisive on how to add more "new" pokemon without actually increasing the dex size has caused so much chaos the last few generations.
Sword/Shield sold gangbusters. If the next mainline is on a console as popular as Switch it'll likely sell even better. I really don't think this is likely at all.
Good job proving his point about the discourse around Pokemon threads here.
Sword & Shield are straight up unfinished. Remember how often you battle in empty voids rather than having a proper background? Even Let's Go was capable of that.
The game barely stuck with me and I finished it. I know Pokemon games are generally considered easy but this one got to the point where I didn't even bother using dynamax just to add some challenge in the gym battles. All in all, probably should have just bought it used and re-sold it instead of getting it digital, sigh.
Sold it after 3 days, disappointed me so much that I lost all interest I've had in the franchise. But since it sold gangbusters I'm not ever expecting them to take the time to make a more complete and interesting pokemon game, since people will buy it anyway so what's the point
I played it for about 2-3 hours and was extremely disappointed. I expected so much more, I don't know why - I really need to remember Pokemon games are basically like annual sports games. Minimal effort cash grabs.
My approach to Pokemon games has been to skip a great many of them and then pick a point to try a new one, and hope the years of minor iterative improvements add up to something decent.
Pokemon X & Y were my last before this - perhaps I needed to leave more time.
My approach to Pokemon games has been to skip a great many of them and then pick a point to try a new one, and hope the years of minor iterative improvements add up to something decent.
Pokemon X & Y were my last before this - perhaps I needed to leave more time.
You'd hope that with this being the first true home console mainline Pokemon game, GF would have put a lot more effort into making this as tight and revolutionary as possible for the series.
You've all seen what's possible with RPGs on the Switch and other consoles.
I know they aren't the same game, but Persona 4 just oozed with style and substance. It was polished as fuck. Hell, Fire Emblem Three Houses (despite some of it's technical flaws) was a much tighter experience than SwSh.
I think we once imagined what Pokemon would be like on a home console. I dare say that not one person got what they imagined.
You've all seen what's possible with RPGs on the Switch and other consoles.
I know they aren't the same game, but Persona 4 just oozed with style and substance. It was polished as fuck. Hell, Fire Emblem Three Houses (despite some of it's technical flaws) was a much tighter experience than SwSh.
I think we once imagined what Pokemon would be like on a home console. I dare say that not one person got what they imagined.
This is the worst main pokémon game I played. The pokémon designs carried the game for me but everything else feels super cheap can't believe this is a billion dollar franchise with this kind of quality wow seems like they put more time into what we can cheap on to save money instead of actually putting a decent effort into making a quality game. I started laughing when they used PowerPoint slides for a cutscene this proves how much they give a fuck about this franchise anymore oh and the pokémon battles background are lifeless. Do Better GF
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I'm going to be "that guy" and mention that as a lapsed Pokemon fan, I think Pokemon Black & White were the best Pokemon games I've played in ages because of their choice to not use any previous Pokemon until the post-story content, meaning everything you saw and fought was totally new. No Pikachu. No Geodudes and Zubats. No nostalgia reliance. It had to stand on its own as a solid game with a whole new group of characters and monsters, and I think it worked very well! It had to rely on actual good mechanics and exploration instead of the normal faces and it succeeded.
... But die-hard fans complained about that and they'll likely never do it again.
I would very much love to see the next Pokemon game attempt it.
... But die-hard fans complained about that and they'll likely never do it again.
I would very much love to see the next Pokemon game attempt it.
Did-hard fans are kinda kicking themselves in the feet right now for complaining about that and are wishing the games would be as good as Gen 5 again.
I really wish that if GameFreak continues to refuse to evolve the mainline Pokemon formula, that they at least make a game that is outside the main series that DOES try and do new and unique things with the franchise. There is a large amount of people that want to enjoy Pokemon but dont because its been largely the same thing since 1996.
You must not know who you're replying to. Defends the pokemon IP as if his life depended on it.
I mean it probably does, if he makes any income from his site.
As a longtime fan who dropped off after B&W and jumped back in with Sword & Shield, I have to say I enjoyed them well enough but was still left underwhelmed. I don't have any problems with the cut down Pokemon roster.
My issues were its incredibly easy difficulty (seriously I think I died once) including your 'rival' (who's actually your best bud), a main story that's just bad - Team Yell is a joke and posed no interesting challenge whatsoever, and visuals that while colorful and varied and did their job fine, could have been so much better. Pokemon has so much more potential.
My issues were its incredibly easy difficulty (seriously I think I died once) including your 'rival' (who's actually your best bud), a main story that's just bad - Team Yell is a joke and posed no interesting challenge whatsoever, and visuals that while colorful and varied and did their job fine, could have been so much better. Pokemon has so much more potential.
Man Black and White were so good.
And fast. Like I've said it before but Sword and Shield are so damn tedious to play.
OP
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Eh idk bro honestly the reaction would've probably been worse if it wasn't a franchise with already the same prestige and fervent fanbase as Pokemon. Even disregarding the dex cull it's a pretty blatantly unfinished game
Anyone with eyes can see that those gorgeous graphics bring the Pokemon world to life, I sometimes can't even tell if its a game or the Pokemon cartoon show. And look at how the world just goes on and on for miles!
That is exactly the reason it sold so much, the idea of a full on Pokemon game on a home console made everyone excited. I would bet a ton of money on the next game not selling nearly as much as S&S.
S&S is easily the most mediocre Pokemon game. It's so straight-up unfinished and unbalanced that I don't even see how that's up for debate.
Going by previous console generations. Usually the first gen released on a console sells the best over the coarse of the console. Though they have more time to achieve more sales. XY barely sold more than Sun and Moon and technically Sun and Moon did better if you include the rerelease.
How young are we talking about cause i was in elementary school when i started playing pokemon and i also still played more difficult games. Kids aren't (completely) stupid.
Some of the character arcs were truly stupid in their message.
"I can't be exactly like my sibling. Even though I have just started my journey, because I have hurdles, I should just research. Nevermind that no one really helped me."
"I have never been defeated before, but am now, so I am NOW obsolete and need to grow up"
"I can't be exactly like my sibling. Even though I have just started my journey, because I have hurdles, I should just research. Nevermind that no one really helped me."
"I have never been defeated before, but am now, so I am NOW obsolete and need to grow up"
User Warned: Thread Whining
Hasn't this thread been made a million times? Or this opinion shared a million times on any thread related to Sword and Shield? Do we have to keep doing this?
It's almost as if it isn't a game that expects you to only play through the single player campaign and walk away, but what do I know
I hate this logic: "every game has shitty stories, so this is okay." It's unreasonable to expect Pokemon games to get better? Like I can tell you that I soured on XY because of how much BW+B2W2 raised the bar from a narrative standpoint. SwSh's story in comparison is outright idiotic.
It's almost like Gens 2-5 didn't have that problem and had complete games full of content.
Lets face it, most casual Pokemon players will play through to beat the game, and not much more. Some might catch all the Pokemon. Diehards will make a living Shiny Dex or do crazy stuff just to milk the hours.
GF realized this, and the result is a neutered postgame, once badges and Gym leagues are out, so are most players.
But the single-player has been neutered as well, so what gives?
OP
OP
Lmao are people not allowed to share a negative viewpoint of a game you like?
The defense force of this game is something else. God forbids any criticism of it, if you don't like it, you're a 'hater'.
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Yeah it's crazy. People who like the game are even struggling to come up with reasons why it isn't balls haha I just don't understand why it's so hard for ppl to criticize a brand they really like
The answer to that of course is, "the kids these days play easy mobile games'
I completely agree with this and I hate the fact that black white one was hated on because of this, it also makes me hat black and white 2 because it was clearly done with the whole got give those old Pokemon back so people can use them in the main campaign again
For Sword/Shield it really felt like GF only cared about two particular audiences, the super casual players who only wanted a light breezy Pokemon RPG and the hardcore VGC competitors. I think it works for those two. And I do appreciate the latter even if I only flirt with competitive Pokemon myself. But everything else is just barebones and underdeveloped. Which still would've been fine if they hadn't hard committed to Dexit for future entries. If the next games don't carry over all previous Pokemon, expect the same reactions even if GF somehow knocks it out of the park on delivering a solid campaign, meaningful post-game, and other aspects that were weak this time.
Sword & Shield are straight up unfinished. Remember how often you battle in empty voids rather than having a proper background? Even Let's Go was capable of that.
You know, I really do wonder how much Sword/Shield's weaknesses come from the fact that they simply didn't have time to finish certain things, as opposed to just poor creative decisions.
For example, the story is awful, but things really go downhill after the third gym. The story, which already wasn't much, just kind of vanishes, the towns become insanely small, and the player can basically knock out the last 3 gyms within 30 minutes. There's just no way that was intended, and the result is that the entire back half of the game feels completely rushed.
And then of course there are things like your post where the background scenes for many of the battles just aren't there, and instead it's just an empty, vague mist.
I think there were rumors that Game Freak had trouble getting some of their tools and dev setups up and running for the Switch. Who knows if any of that is true, but it does seem like the game was just not complete in so many ways.
I can somewhat understand where people are coming from when they say that 'Pokemon discussions are toxic now', because while I disagree with the sentiment, the discourse has definitely shifted over the last few years. Up until Sword & Shield, mainline games were almost immune to criticism in Pokemon communities. I know, because I was in the thick of it! I learned to mostly bite my tongue when it came to criticism unless I was prepared to get dogpiled or downvoted. And until Sun & Moon, my complaints were fairly mild tbh, and mostly related to Game Freak always removing things, or being too iterative. Opinions you wouldn't think would be controversial. And yet...
So yeah, if you're the type of fan who has always been fairly satisfied with the state of the series, then the way the games are discussed these days probably does seem alarming to you. I would argue that it hasn't become toxic, though. It's just not an echo chamber of positivity anymore.
The dex cut was really the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. And not specifically because of Pokemon being removed. That was inevitable (even if I think it didn't need to happen for at least another couple of generations). But for me it really became emblematic of everything wrong with the series. It was like Game Freak was saying "we can't bring all of the Pokemon back because we want to focus on other aspects of the game"...while from my perspective everything was looking pretty damn rough, and ended up being even worse in reality.
It's a GOOD thing people are more vocal now about what needs to improve.
So yeah, if you're the type of fan who has always been fairly satisfied with the state of the series, then the way the games are discussed these days probably does seem alarming to you. I would argue that it hasn't become toxic, though. It's just not an echo chamber of positivity anymore.
The dex cut was really the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. And not specifically because of Pokemon being removed. That was inevitable (even if I think it didn't need to happen for at least another couple of generations). But for me it really became emblematic of everything wrong with the series. It was like Game Freak was saying "we can't bring all of the Pokemon back because we want to focus on other aspects of the game"...while from my perspective everything was looking pretty damn rough, and ended up being even worse in reality.
It's a GOOD thing people are more vocal now about what needs to improve.
I enjoyed the games. It's just, most of that enjoyment came from the fact that I didn't look at the leaks. Because of that, I was able to go into the games not having seen many of the new Pokemon yet and being often surprised when seeing new ones. Route 1 alone had like five Pokemon I had never seen before, which made it pretty fun. I know many like to look this stuff up beforehand to plan their teams, but I had an opportunity to not do so and I took it.
But ultimately, that exact same thing could've happened with a higher quality game. My grievances with the games aren't as big as many other people, but there are many improvements that need to be done.
But ultimately, that exact same thing could've happened with a higher quality game. My grievances with the games aren't as big as many other people, but there are many improvements that need to be done.
I don't agree that it's the worst for a few reasons.
- As disappointed as I was with it overall, the Wild Area was still a desperately needed twist to the basic formula.
- The 3D models for the creatures looked great, in my opinion. Obviously the animations were lacking, but it was nice to play a new adventure with those high-resolution models.
- The gym challenges and battles were the best in the series from an aesthetics perspective.
Yeah, as a person who didn't pay attention to the series for a while and jumped back in with Sword/Shield, I gotta say I had no idea how averse some of the Pokemon fan base is to the notion that these games could be significantly better. To be honest, I can't think of a single aspect of the game, from its visuals to its battle mechanics to its sense of progression to its story to anything else, that is handled as well as I could reasonably expect. Every single aspect of these games could be significantly better than they are and I have no idea why anyone would go out of their way to argue against pushing GF to improve. They, too, would ultimately get better gaming experiences out of this.
BotW is my all-time favorite game but I still recognize there are legitimate flaws, and if someone points them out or considers them to be a bigger deal than I do then... ok. That's fine. It's very odd to watch Pokemon fans "well actually..." detractors with explanations of the development process if you don't like certain aspects of the game. Like, maybe change the development process then? Understanding how the sausage is made doesn't make it more fun to eat, so that's not much of a rebuttal. If a game is lacking I'm not going to think to myself "it would've been so hard to make it better though" and then magically enjoy the game more. It needs to be better, and it doesn't really matter how difficult that would or wouldn't be to pull off.
Not even close. X and Y were the first titles in full 3D, every single Pokemon was fully modeled and present in the game (those exact same models that you're saying look great in Sw/Sh), it was the first to add full trainer customisation, 3D movement, had the most robust and enjoyable online functionality in the entire series (thanks to the PSS), added the Fairy type and rebalanced a load of old Pokemon around it, introduced the super training, O-Powers, mega evolutions, Pokemon Amie, friend safari, hordes and made competitive battling and shiny hunting easier.
They were unfinished and had some pacing problems, but they added a hell of a lot that everyone takes for granted.
I don't really know what you're talking about here, in my experience Pokemon discussion has been broadly negative since at least around the time of OR/AS, when the "modern Pokemon" trends started to become readily apparent--stuff like the infamous Battle Frontier interview had a pretty substantial negative outcry. There's no doubt that Sword/Shield intensified it, though; the discourse has definitely calmed down a bit since its peak after we found out about the dex cut and when the games launched, but it's still pretty vitriolic.
PSS system introduced in XY was the best online Pokemon's ever had.