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Pokemon Sword and Shield are even worse in hindsight
- Thread starter DongBeetle
- Start date
You can't seriously call S&S gorgeous. You just can't. There are plenty of JRPG ps3 games that look so much better. Even some PS2 RPGs looks much betterYep, as I said before, outside the Wild Area, SWSH is gorgeous. It may have some issues here and there, but the graphical style they're going for stands out and each area feels new and pretty. I almost don't want a massive open game so we can have more focused areas like these
Battle animations outside the handful people jump to in order to criticise look great too
Game Freak didn't give themselves an extra year? XY 2013 - SM 2016. Where did you see that they gave themselves an extra year?
Also $60 from $40 is a very American bit. In Japan the price increase was only 1000 yen (~$10 around 20% increase) and Europe was smaller, an increase of 33% and that's including tax. Unfortunately Americans got screwed. HOWEVER, the pricing is literally just standard Switch game pricing.
Yep, as I said before, outside the Wild Area, SWSH is gorgeous. It may have some issues here and there, but the graphical style they're going for stands out and each area feels new and pretty. I almost don't want a massive open game so we can have more focused areas like these
Battle animations outside the handful people jump to in order to criticise look great too
Game Freak didn't give themselves an extra year? XY 2013 - SM 2016. Where did you see that they gave themselves an extra year?
Also $60 from $40 is a very American bit. In Japan the price increase was only 1000 yen (~$10 around 20% increase) and Europe was smaller, an increase of 33% and that's including tax. Unfortunately Americans got screwed. HOWEVER, the pricing is literally just standard Switch game pricing.
No, it is not gorgeous.
At least not on these images quoted.
There were 117 new moves added in SWSH, and many other moves featured brand new and improved animations, so let's not do that
As for the rest of the point, you're again, as I have explained multiple times, failing to comprehend the scope of issues, testing animations etc. for the vast number of things required. You'#re completely dismissing it, and then just being all "didn't prepare for HD development" when that's not how things work.
LMAO, I hear it all to often still
just a small billion dollar indie studio with one of the top global IPs for over two decades
The story was trash, sure, but I don't go to Pokémon for the story. It's never been really good, so I never expect them to be. And it's obvious they had to cut some corners here and there because of deadlines. But the game itself was a lot of fun and I very much enjoyed my time playing it, and that's really all that matters to me.
I can't say it was a bad game, is what I'm trying to say. It's not the best in the series at all, not even close, but I still wouldn't say it was bad.
I can't say it was a bad game, is what I'm trying to say. It's not the best in the series at all, not even close, but I still wouldn't say it was bad.
I didnt even finish it. Load of rubbish. Linear, painfully bad story even by Pokemon standards, tiny little routes and towns...just felt very barebones and not really acceptable for a modern game.
And the wild area was embarrassing. Terrible frame rate and players popping in and out all over the place. And the graphics are on par with a high end PS2 game (I frequently use shots of games like Jak and Daxter, FF12 and Tales of the Abyss to evidence this point and it really does check out).
A very disappointing move for the series IMO.
And the wild area was embarrassing. Terrible frame rate and players popping in and out all over the place. And the graphics are on par with a high end PS2 game (I frequently use shots of games like Jak and Daxter, FF12 and Tales of the Abyss to evidence this point and it really does check out).
A very disappointing move for the series IMO.
117 moves added, is that including the moves they removed? Because they took out Z moves and Mega Pokémon animations. Nearly every other Nintendo exclusive dev adapted to the HD development cycles during the Wii U era, but Gamefreak didn't need to, they kept developing for the 3DS until PLG. Before that, they had already dabbled in HD game development but clearly didn't invest in enough people to pull it off. The game could have used another year in the over and if it had released with the full roster a year later, I think people would have been much more positive. The game is clearly rushed, and money is not preventing them from building a team that could implement these animations. Me saying that doesn't dismiss anything, unless you have specific examples of the contrary?
Game Freak thinks that kids have the attention span of a stray cat.
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Sometimes, you need a new guard to carry on the franchise as proven by both Mario and Zelda.
That's exactly how I feel. So done with mainline Pokémon if this is how it will be for good (which it will be because it still sells insanely well)
I mean I liked them well enough. Maybe like a 7.5-8/10?
It definitely has its flaws, but I disagree wholly about the length. I hate the idea that every $60 game has to be 20 hours plus. There's plenty of content if you try to catch every monster. Much longer and the game would really be a slog.
It definitely has its flaws, but I disagree wholly about the length. I hate the idea that every $60 game has to be 20 hours plus. There's plenty of content if you try to catch every monster. Much longer and the game would really be a slog.
They are the games that made me drop the series, which is sad since it was my favourite until this gen.
Pokemon games started to drop in quality with the jump to 3D. They became a lot more linear and the handholding was extreme. The loss of the battle frontier hurt, but I accepted it because I could still play online with my favorite team and catch them all. Also I loved megaevolutions.
Then Switch came out and while the rest of the Nintendo franchises, like Mario and Zelda, kept evolving, we got... this.
The saddest thing is that I would have accepted the bad graphics, animations and story, the linearity and the non-existent difficulty and the loss of the battle frontier and mega evolutions if that had been all.
But that was not all.
Finally, they did what I feared the most.
They also cut Pokemon.
That was my limit.
I'm not going to pay 60 € for games with less content than the 3DS ones + pay to be able to play online + pay to bring back my old Pokemon from 3DS + buy the DLC to get the rest of the dex (because the data was already in the game, but they were being held hostage behind a paywall).
Pokemon has become a cashgrab, but it doesn't matter because it is Pokemon and it will sell millions no matter what they do, so this is the direction that the series will take.
What saddens me is that the Diamond and Pearl remakes, my favorite games, are going to come out in the worst Pokemon generation. I'm not ready to see what a mess they will make of them.
(Without megaevolutions, we won't get Primal Dialga)
Pokemon games started to drop in quality with the jump to 3D. They became a lot more linear and the handholding was extreme. The loss of the battle frontier hurt, but I accepted it because I could still play online with my favorite team and catch them all. Also I loved megaevolutions.
Then Switch came out and while the rest of the Nintendo franchises, like Mario and Zelda, kept evolving, we got... this.
The saddest thing is that I would have accepted the bad graphics, animations and story, the linearity and the non-existent difficulty and the loss of the battle frontier and mega evolutions if that had been all.
But that was not all.
Finally, they did what I feared the most.
They also cut Pokemon.
That was my limit.
I'm not going to pay 60 € for games with less content than the 3DS ones + pay to be able to play online + pay to bring back my old Pokemon from 3DS + buy the DLC to get the rest of the dex (because the data was already in the game, but they were being held hostage behind a paywall).
Pokemon has become a cashgrab, but it doesn't matter because it is Pokemon and it will sell millions no matter what they do, so this is the direction that the series will take.
What saddens me is that the Diamond and Pearl remakes, my favorite games, are going to come out in the worst Pokemon generation. I'm not ready to see what a mess they will make of them.
(Without megaevolutions, we won't get Primal Dialga)
Absolutely, the worst mainline pokemon games by a long way for many reasons I stated before. That's for my tastes, as someone who usually plays through the "story" once and dabbles a bit in endgame stuff before moving on to other games.
I will say OP, your complaint about the story isn't anything particularly new. Pokemon games have pretty much always had bad stories. Its true that this one is probably worse than average, but they're all bad anyway. The particular problem with this one is the structure, lack of unique stuff like a team HQ, and how big events constantly happen off-screen.
Biggest disappointments for me that I'll highlight are the terrible route designs and lack of any kind of dungeons, those are my favourite parts of Pokemon games so there just being nothing in this regard felt awful. The Wild area did not make up for this in the slightest, it felt extremely out of date and boring to be in.
This is one of those games where I really regret giving them £45 and +1 sale, it doesn't deserve it at all.
I will say OP, your complaint about the story isn't anything particularly new. Pokemon games have pretty much always had bad stories. Its true that this one is probably worse than average, but they're all bad anyway. The particular problem with this one is the structure, lack of unique stuff like a team HQ, and how big events constantly happen off-screen.
Biggest disappointments for me that I'll highlight are the terrible route designs and lack of any kind of dungeons, those are my favourite parts of Pokemon games so there just being nothing in this regard felt awful. The Wild area did not make up for this in the slightest, it felt extremely out of date and boring to be in.
This is one of those games where I really regret giving them £45 and +1 sale, it doesn't deserve it at all.
That's not a valid counterargument, where's your reason to prove that it isn't nonsense?
Pokemon is the most profitable franchise in the world, The Pokemon Company has the capital to hire more staff for the mainline Pokemon games to accommodate the shift to HD but they decided not to.
I think Sword and Shield got the most gametime out of me for a pokemon game in a LONG time. Last time was probably HGSS/DPP. I own white/black2/X/Moon, and either didn't finish or didn't touch postgame.
Wild area is great, the raids are incredibly fun, the direction was clear, and the DLC content instead of Ultra Sword, was great.
Wild area is great, the raids are incredibly fun, the direction was clear, and the DLC content instead of Ultra Sword, was great.
Then increase the budget, Pokemon can still make the money back and future-proof even better assets for upcoming entries.
They're serviceable as Pokemon games, and I had some fun with them, but that's more of a testament to the strength of Pokemon's core gameplay loop than to anything unique to Sword and Shield. From a story, world design, and difficulty perspective, they're easily the worst in the series in my book.
I also gotta say, I legitimately do not understand people thinking X/Y were worse. X/Y were fairly mediocre, but even they had actual dungeons, optional areas, routes with branching paths, actual player engagement with the story, and options that allowed for a bit more difficulty with the ability to toggle Exp. Share off.
I also gotta say, I legitimately do not understand people thinking X/Y were worse. X/Y were fairly mediocre, but even they had actual dungeons, optional areas, routes with branching paths, actual player engagement with the story, and options that allowed for a bit more difficulty with the ability to toggle Exp. Share off.
"This other game looks better so that means you can't think Sword and Shield are gorgeous."
????
I hate how everything that sells well tends to have cheerleaders and people will ignore all its flaws while saying shit like talent won. SWSH aren't bad games by definition. They are functional and half decent for the target demographic but it's a major step down for a series that has been becoming more streamlined since XY.
What I liked about SM a lot was how different it was. It wasn't perfect or even great in many areas, not to mention super linear. But the fact that it was a brand new approach to the long standing series was enough of a new experience that it revitalized the series for me. SWSH decided to go back to the tried and true and downgrade every aspect at the same time. There's no sense of adventure, discovery or actual depth in a role playing game this time around.
People are insane online with their hatred towards Game Freak but SWSH aren't good games, they are sub standard and fit the target demographic for big sales numbers. It has a poor story, a lack of real discovery in a Pokemon game, further simplified gameplay and incredibly linear. It's the fast food equivalent of what Pokemon used to be.
What I liked about SM a lot was how different it was. It wasn't perfect or even great in many areas, not to mention super linear. But the fact that it was a brand new approach to the long standing series was enough of a new experience that it revitalized the series for me. SWSH decided to go back to the tried and true and downgrade every aspect at the same time. There's no sense of adventure, discovery or actual depth in a role playing game this time around.
People are insane online with their hatred towards Game Freak but SWSH aren't good games, they are sub standard and fit the target demographic for big sales numbers. It has a poor story, a lack of real discovery in a Pokemon game, further simplified gameplay and incredibly linear. It's the fast food equivalent of what Pokemon used to be.
My point it that S&S definitely aren't games that look good. Especially for a high budget switch HD game. If low budget ps3 games look better there is something wrong.
Not that a game has to look good, I love plenty of mediocre looking games
I think SWSH are better games than X/Y or (U)S/M handily. Just because you don't like what they have done, doesn't mean it's a major step down.
This franchise is kind of in need of a reboot or a fresh take, I'm not talking about red and blue for the 10th time either. There doesn't need to be more new pokemon, they should have a new region or perhaps even world where various pokemon from the past regions are jumbled together and don't follow the same numerical order as the national pokedex.
Haven't played an entry since Sun and Moon. I enjoy replaying games from gen 3,4 and 5 than playing new entries. I already know what I'm going to get with GameFreak. I usually try to avoid pokemon threads because it feels like I'm always saying the same crap and yelling at the clouds. Going forward I'll try to avoid them, because I think I might annoy the people that still enjoy Pokemon.
Anyways I think GameFreak needs more time, but selling 10m+ copies each year suggests otherwise. Their games have gotten stale, it's like their creatively bankrupt. A new Pokemon game is akin to a new entry in a sports franchise, at least to me.
Haven't played an entry since Sun and Moon. I enjoy replaying games from gen 3,4 and 5 than playing new entries. I already know what I'm going to get with GameFreak. I usually try to avoid pokemon threads because it feels like I'm always saying the same crap and yelling at the clouds. Going forward I'll try to avoid them, because I think I might annoy the people that still enjoy Pokemon.
Anyways I think GameFreak needs more time, but selling 10m+ copies each year suggests otherwise. Their games have gotten stale, it's like their creatively bankrupt. A new Pokemon game is akin to a new entry in a sports franchise, at least to me.
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User Warned: Lazy Dev Rhetoric
I dont know if they're underfunded or just lazy hacks but the output from gamefreak sucks from a technical perspective .
While I do agree that the main story is lacking in some aspects and they made some poor choices regarding textures and some aspects of the art style I still think it's a great game. The characters are great and the whole gym fight spectacle was done so well. Also the post-game was cool. Raids were fantastic addictive fun. Breeding/optaining competitive Pokémon was so much fun.
Also the DLCs were fantastic. Not without reason I put more than 500 hrs into this game.
Also the DLCs were fantastic. Not without reason I put more than 500 hrs into this game.
We got to talk about how we talk about these games.
Some observations:
Many older threads about these games contain many members who are now banned.
Other threads about these games (ie the recent sales milestone thread) are cast in 'good faith' and then there are those threads that are anything but.
You can absolutely deride or bemoan games in good faith here, but that never happens with these games.
I remember discussing these games here with people and the topic of the pre-release leaks, but this was like mid last year.
Something like 'yeah the leaks were deserved'.
How far are we from 'Era hopes Game Freak gets hacked' territory ala CD Projekt Red this week?
My point is always the same, this isn't because you think a video game isn't fun, it's something else. Let's talk about that instead.
Some observations:
Many older threads about these games contain many members who are now banned.
Other threads about these games (ie the recent sales milestone thread) are cast in 'good faith' and then there are those threads that are anything but.
You can absolutely deride or bemoan games in good faith here, but that never happens with these games.
I remember discussing these games here with people and the topic of the pre-release leaks, but this was like mid last year.
Something like 'yeah the leaks were deserved'.
How far are we from 'Era hopes Game Freak gets hacked' territory ala CD Projekt Red this week?
My point is always the same, this isn't because you think a video game isn't fun, it's something else. Let's talk about that instead.
Honestly, I felt like everything in this game was just wrong.
Terrible story, dumb characters, canned and repetitive animations everywhere, small-ass towns, poor performance, gimmicky battle mechanics (yes, in looking at you Dynamax)...
Maybe Pokemon games are just not for me anymore.
Terrible story, dumb characters, canned and repetitive animations everywhere, small-ass towns, poor performance, gimmicky battle mechanics (yes, in looking at you Dynamax)...
Maybe Pokemon games are just not for me anymore.
Seems like quite a subjective thing to take such a definitive stance on.
For example:
I agree! Gen 4's art is my favorite! There are still DS games that look better though. That doesn't mean I think it doesn't look good.
Sword and Shield look great though? there's a cohesive style through the whole thing, as well as being immediately recognizable as a pokemon title.
Just because it doesn't look realistic, or some other style you're holding it to, doesn't mean it looks bad, or worse than a budget PS3 game.
Story-wise SwSh sucks
the wild area and raids however are so much fun , catching all the Pokémon was fun, renting teams for battle tower was fun, how easy it is to build good Pokémon was fun and even the balance of Pokémon was excellent.
I just wish gamefreak did more with this aspect. For the longest time gamefreak has neglected challenging PvE content and tied the commendable aspects into competitive pvp which is great but I just wish I had more than a battle tower.
The dlc does well at again fleshing out raids and gives you a more open world lite story the base game should have had but it just seems so odd not to go all in on the wild area/raid gimmick and really flesh out a decent post game challenge
the wild area and raids however are so much fun , catching all the Pokémon was fun, renting teams for battle tower was fun, how easy it is to build good Pokémon was fun and even the balance of Pokémon was excellent.
I just wish gamefreak did more with this aspect. For the longest time gamefreak has neglected challenging PvE content and tied the commendable aspects into competitive pvp which is great but I just wish I had more than a battle tower.
The dlc does well at again fleshing out raids and gives you a more open world lite story the base game should have had but it just seems so odd not to go all in on the wild area/raid gimmick and really flesh out a decent post game challenge
I'd prefer games with limited story lean into this aspect with limited dialogue and cutscenes. Modern Pokémon has not evolved in story-telling but for some reason now feels the need to insert numerous cutscenes throughout routes and towns. This makes a terrible story that much worse
It'd be like if a new 2D Mario stopped you for 2-3 cutscenes at random sections of each level but still had the same basic story of "Bowser stole Peach!" and the cutscenes consist of Toads going "Can you believe Bowser stole Peach? Also, did you know you can jump by pressing A?"
Disclaimer: I don't buy many games full price in a given year but Pokémon Sword is the most I've regretted doing so in the past 8 years.
I haven't touched the series since Emerald and Leaf Green and was excited to re-discover the series with SwSh. What I got was a sterile, empty and completely empty game devoid of any exploration or feeling of discovery. Ruby and Sapphire had SO MANY secret areas and gated zones that made it almost feel like a Metroidvania at times. By the time I beat Sword, I'd seen every "optional" path and hidden area. It's a pathetically linear game that acts as if it's fearful of the player's low intelligence at times.
And don't give me that "you were a kid back then! These are kids games, not hardcore metroidvania RPG's". Fuck that, my girlfriend is a middle school teacher and told me at release how her students absolutely HATED how easy the game was and how it never let them run free like they wanted to. Also, they joked about Hop and how condescendingly terrible he is.
I literally cannot think of a single other game series that fans make more excuses for. This game had a low bar to clear for me and it still failed to look/feel cheap. The designs of the Pokémon themselves are fantastic and the music is awesome but literally everything else feels like budget tier JRPG crap. Half the notable plot points happen off screen, one cutscene is a literal slideshow of still images and the resolution to that tower elevator section is embarrassing as fuck.
I haven't touched the series since Emerald and Leaf Green and was excited to re-discover the series with SwSh. What I got was a sterile, empty and completely empty game devoid of any exploration or feeling of discovery. Ruby and Sapphire had SO MANY secret areas and gated zones that made it almost feel like a Metroidvania at times. By the time I beat Sword, I'd seen every "optional" path and hidden area. It's a pathetically linear game that acts as if it's fearful of the player's low intelligence at times.
And don't give me that "you were a kid back then! These are kids games, not hardcore metroidvania RPG's". Fuck that, my girlfriend is a middle school teacher and told me at release how her students absolutely HATED how easy the game was and how it never let them run free like they wanted to. Also, they joked about Hop and how condescendingly terrible he is.
I literally cannot think of a single other game series that fans make more excuses for. This game had a low bar to clear for me and it still failed to look/feel cheap. The designs of the Pokémon themselves are fantastic and the music is awesome but literally everything else feels like budget tier JRPG crap. Half the notable plot points happen off screen, one cutscene is a literal slideshow of still images and the resolution to that tower elevator section is embarrassing as fuck.
No they won't. Game Freak could address every single problem the "community" (read: vocal minority) has and you would STILL find something to complain about.
I recently modded a GBA, so I've been playing older Pokemon games and it's been surprising to me how well they are holding up whereas I started a new game in Pokemon Sword and it's definitely a bit of a slog.
My real hot take though is that I think Let's Go got a bad wrap and it's actually a fun, good looking, light and breezy Pokemon game once you adjust to a different kind of gameplay loop
My real hot take though is that I think Let's Go got a bad wrap and it's actually a fun, good looking, light and breezy Pokemon game once you adjust to a different kind of gameplay loop
Yep, as I said before, outside the Wild Area, SWSH is gorgeous. It may have some issues here and there, but the graphical style they're going for stands out and each area feels new and pretty. I almost don't want a massive open game so we can have more focused areas like these
Battle animations outside the handful people jump to in order to criticise look great too
This is a screenshot of an enhanced remaster of a Wii game that was released in 2010 which puts your examples to shame.
This is a gorgeous shot, what you've shown as examples may be gorgeous by Game Freaks standards but it's definitely not "gorgeous".
"But the DLC actually seemed to improves things a little bit"...sure I'll spend a grand total of $90 to play a perhaps slightly higher than mediocre Pokemon game rather than just a mediocre one.
One thing I've noticed is that certain folks will inevitably fall back to this line of thinking once they finish up defending these games to the death.
One thing I've noticed is that certain folks will inevitably fall back to this line of thinking once they finish up defending these games to the death.
It was a bit shit, yeah. It was the first pokemon game I've played since HGSS, and I can't say I didn't still enjoy the basic formula to some extent, but everything else surrounding the game was shallow and half baked.
I generally liked the music and the pokemon designs themselves were pretty decent, but that alone don't make for a good game.
I generally liked the music and the pokemon designs themselves were pretty decent, but that alone don't make for a good game.
I mean, still cheaper than buying a whole other game, that's mostly the same game, just to get all of the content.
As a fan of the main saga, Sword and Shield took all my interest and buried it in the ground with concrete.
The back-and-forth of "it looks bad" "no, it looks great" is frustrating because it's missing the forest from the trees (heh).
It's true that Pokémon has never been a looker when compared to other games in their respective systems. The game's IQ isn't even an issue by itself, but it sure is an easier aspect to defend than the removal of content, the simplified design of the routes, or the monetization scheme the series has adopted.
It's true that Pokémon has never been a looker when compared to other games in their respective systems. The game's IQ isn't even an issue by itself, but it sure is an easier aspect to defend than the removal of content, the simplified design of the routes, or the monetization scheme the series has adopted.
I didn't mind the story in SwSh that much personally. Its more laid back appeal and the entire stadium structure (this game is the first time this series has ever made the Pokémon League feel like it doesn't just take place in a vacuum) gave me nostalgic flashbacks to watching the first seasons of the Pokémon anime, where multiple rivals would come and go, friendly rivalries were a bit more common (Hop is still a bit underrated imo), Gym leaders were a bit more interesting overall, the personal goals of taking home gold was treated with far more pomp, and the overall big stakes were kind of outside the purview of the audience POV until the point that they'd eventually have to contend with it. I've never thought these games had very memorable stories, though in SwSh's case I give it credit for at least making the world feel a little more lived-in when it comes to the entire competitive concept.
Funnily enough, despite that the DLC supposedly improved a few aspects of the core game, it was still way worse critically received than the main entries which immediately makes you wonder why the hell people were giving the entries anything above a 7 in the first place (and later the exact same places started discussing how they could "fix" the series).
Exactly! I mentioned earlier in the thread, SwSh were GREAT visually in terms of pokemon.
It's IMMEDIATELY recognizable as a pokemon title, and the fidelity for everything is nice