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Pokemon Generation 9 Speculation and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter TheGamingNewsGuy
- Start date
The geography of the movies is barely coherent to begin with (pretty sure at least one of them was based on a real world location that was already being used as a different city in the region), basing a game on them is just asking for trouble.
The algorithm presented me a video a few days ago about future of the series, and after watching it, it put thesteady advancement of the series into perspective for me, and I actually feel optimistic about Gen 9, and instead more negative towards some of the doomposting and heavily measured expectations, rather than towards Gen 9 itself.
We're approaching the point of being closer to Gen 9's release than Gen 8's, so it's becoming easier to forget the bad of SwSh and focus on how we know Gen 9 will exist while not having any information to disprove my hopes and dreams for it.
Despite BDSP not being what the imagination could come up with for a 3D remake after the SwSH DLC gave us more of a taste of what Pokémon could be, Game Freak themselves haven't regressed or stopped moving forwards design wise (after Let's Go), even if slowly.
The video referenced this interview and quote:
And although at the time many felt it was ridiculous to be hesitant and worried about the reception to an extremely basic decades old design feature like that and to only half implement it into SwSh in one area only, I'll give Game Freak credit that after the positive reception to the advancement and the clamoring for it to be taken further and implemented more, they followed up by making DLC where the camera being controllable in the whole experience was advertised as a selling point, and their next game has it be the new norm. They also took the experiment they did with the Wild Area concept further with larger size, better world design, and even a (small) town seamlessly inside the camera controlled area.
There was also the quote where they noted overworld Pokémon being implemented due to a positive response:
Similarly, when SwSh came out, social media had a lot of content about the Pokémon chasing you in the Wild Area. When you go back to that interview quote then look at Legends, you see that they took something well received and both kept it and took it to a further and better level with the trainer damage which is already getting a great response in memes and fanarts. And riding on Pokémon and the increased traversal options with climbing and gliding will be beloved by players, I am sure. I think people are underestimating how much Legends is already showing us of the next generation.
When you look at Legends having battles within the world and not mismatched battle arenas or empty voids, and see Ponyta given a turning animation, you realize that despite some people's insistence on a "bubble" for criticism or handwaving with sales numbers, Game Freak themselves care about the concerns the players have with their product, see faults in them and want to do better game to game and I want to give them credit for that.
We've already had open seamless spaces that you can explore anywhere in with multiple active objectives/quests you can do in any order and start and stop as you want.
Sword and Shield already have badge based level scaling for wild Pokémon. A binary "8 badges or not" implementation, sure, but refining and expanding to a switch case of 8 different values for 8 individual badges and applying to the rest of the game is less of a jump than to suggest the feature itself for the first time when it had never had something like that previously.
We're so close and Game Freak is clearly being held back most by their inexperience, which they are overcoming in front of our eyes. The progression is happening, from Wild Area to larger DLC areas, to Legends areas of the DLC size or larger (segmented zones individually loaded), to areas of that size or more seamlessly connected in one game space.
I actually feel like it may all come together in the next generation, or at the least that my dream Pokémon game is an inevitability within my lifetime, and if it lives up close enough to the series' concept's potential, I'll be happy to put the last 10 years of technical limitations and finding their footing making 3D games forgotten in the past and focus on the bright future.
To return to the "doomposting" complaints, some people are actually being way too pessimistic, to where even SwSh defenders come across as having no faith in Game Freak, with a "faster horses" mentality where they are describing their expectations as a "Sword & Shield 2"/"Red & Green 9" game and coming across like people talking about a 3DS successor after the Switch had launched, perhaps because they don't want to admit that while they desire more of the same, the amount of people who want the series to evolve and modernize is less of a minority than they wish and that Game Freak hears that desire and is moving towards that game after game and you need only to play the SwSh DLC to see it. If you went back in time as shortly as the release of SuMo and described Legends Arceus, I bet many wouldn't believe you at all that a Pokémon game like that would exist, much less be developed by Game Freak. Some people are downplaying too much when they said "The Pokémon series enters a new era" by trying to take it too literally as a reference to the time period shift, and "opens new possibilities for the Pokémon series" from the second presentation, not acknowledging the possibility of Game Freak themselves wanting a paradigm shift and a fresh break from their formula that some of them may have been implementing for 25 years.
I'm hype for Gen 9 to not be the half and half experience of SwSh or the experiment of Legends but the combination of the two as the fully realized start of the new identity of Pokémon RPGs enabled by the 25 years of technology and design advancement around the franchise in the industry at large being caught up to. I feel like I could look at it and say that it lives up to my imagination when the Switch was first announced and I thought of what Pokémon could do with that large of a jump in power, and say that the time between then and when I get to play it wasn't that bad, because it is behind me now.
November 2023, 25 years after the US release of the first games in 1998 and 10 years after the switch to 3D models in XY in 2013, it will be poetic the timing when they overcome their growing pains and deliver a great generation that starts a golden age.
And Legends might even be good too, in the meantime, even if the lack of trainers and segmentation of areas takes a lot of the wind out of my sails.
We're approaching the point of being closer to Gen 9's release than Gen 8's, so it's becoming easier to forget the bad of SwSh and focus on how we know Gen 9 will exist while not having any information to disprove my hopes and dreams for it.
Despite BDSP not being what the imagination could come up with for a 3D remake after the SwSH DLC gave us more of a taste of what Pokémon could be, Game Freak themselves haven't regressed or stopped moving forwards design wise (after Let's Go), even if slowly.
The video referenced this interview and quote:
And although at the time many felt it was ridiculous to be hesitant and worried about the reception to an extremely basic decades old design feature like that and to only half implement it into SwSh in one area only, I'll give Game Freak credit that after the positive reception to the advancement and the clamoring for it to be taken further and implemented more, they followed up by making DLC where the camera being controllable in the whole experience was advertised as a selling point, and their next game has it be the new norm. They also took the experiment they did with the Wild Area concept further with larger size, better world design, and even a (small) town seamlessly inside the camera controlled area.
There was also the quote where they noted overworld Pokémon being implemented due to a positive response:
Similarly, when SwSh came out, social media had a lot of content about the Pokémon chasing you in the Wild Area. When you go back to that interview quote then look at Legends, you see that they took something well received and both kept it and took it to a further and better level with the trainer damage which is already getting a great response in memes and fanarts. And riding on Pokémon and the increased traversal options with climbing and gliding will be beloved by players, I am sure. I think people are underestimating how much Legends is already showing us of the next generation.
When you look at Legends having battles within the world and not mismatched battle arenas or empty voids, and see Ponyta given a turning animation, you realize that despite some people's insistence on a "bubble" for criticism or handwaving with sales numbers, Game Freak themselves care about the concerns the players have with their product, see faults in them and want to do better game to game and I want to give them credit for that.
We've already had open seamless spaces that you can explore anywhere in with multiple active objectives/quests you can do in any order and start and stop as you want.
Sword and Shield already have badge based level scaling for wild Pokémon. A binary "8 badges or not" implementation, sure, but refining and expanding to a switch case of 8 different values for 8 individual badges and applying to the rest of the game is less of a jump than to suggest the feature itself for the first time when it had never had something like that previously.
We're so close and Game Freak is clearly being held back most by their inexperience, which they are overcoming in front of our eyes. The progression is happening, from Wild Area to larger DLC areas, to Legends areas of the DLC size or larger (segmented zones individually loaded), to areas of that size or more seamlessly connected in one game space.
I actually feel like it may all come together in the next generation, or at the least that my dream Pokémon game is an inevitability within my lifetime, and if it lives up close enough to the series' concept's potential, I'll be happy to put the last 10 years of technical limitations and finding their footing making 3D games forgotten in the past and focus on the bright future.
To return to the "doomposting" complaints, some people are actually being way too pessimistic, to where even SwSh defenders come across as having no faith in Game Freak, with a "faster horses" mentality where they are describing their expectations as a "Sword & Shield 2"/"Red & Green 9" game and coming across like people talking about a 3DS successor after the Switch had launched, perhaps because they don't want to admit that while they desire more of the same, the amount of people who want the series to evolve and modernize is less of a minority than they wish and that Game Freak hears that desire and is moving towards that game after game and you need only to play the SwSh DLC to see it. If you went back in time as shortly as the release of SuMo and described Legends Arceus, I bet many wouldn't believe you at all that a Pokémon game like that would exist, much less be developed by Game Freak. Some people are downplaying too much when they said "The Pokémon series enters a new era" by trying to take it too literally as a reference to the time period shift, and "opens new possibilities for the Pokémon series" from the second presentation, not acknowledging the possibility of Game Freak themselves wanting a paradigm shift and a fresh break from their formula that some of them may have been implementing for 25 years.
I'm hype for Gen 9 to not be the half and half experience of SwSh or the experiment of Legends but the combination of the two as the fully realized start of the new identity of Pokémon RPGs enabled by the 25 years of technology and design advancement around the franchise in the industry at large being caught up to. I feel like I could look at it and say that it lives up to my imagination when the Switch was first announced and I thought of what Pokémon could do with that large of a jump in power, and say that the time between then and when I get to play it wasn't that bad, because it is behind me now.
November 2023, 25 years after the US release of the first games in 1998 and 10 years after the switch to 3D models in XY in 2013, it will be poetic the timing when they overcome their growing pains and deliver a great generation that starts a golden age.
And Legends might even be good too, in the meantime, even if the lack of trainers and segmentation of areas takes a lot of the wind out of my sails.
Excellent post, it's what I've been trying to say for a long time.
Don't really need to go that far. Just favor more unpredictability.
- Equal number of pokemon
- Loadouts (like dynamax mewtwo, but with rosters
- Item limitations
- Level equalizer
I don't mean actually having mewtwo. In the dynamax mewtwo event for SS, mewtwo had multiple move pools so you didn't exactly face off against it the same way in a row
I'd like to see more in the way of co-operative multiplayer, such as Max Raids and Dynmax Adventures. It wouldn't take too much work to put in place a situation where you have an almost MMO-like Tank, Healer and Damage Dealer set up.
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I hope we actually someday get events again. Mythicals have been such a waste for the past three gens, and nowadays dont even feel like they belong to the regions or world around the games.
Their implementation has been lazy with not much thought behind them, just free handouts.
Their implementation has been lazy with not much thought behind them, just free handouts.
Discovering the Power Plant in Red/Blue and the Fuego Ironworks in Diamond/Pearl blew my mind. I'd love more moments like those.
I didn't like GMax at first when I was playing through Sword/Shield, but I've really grown to like it. It kind of wish they could find some way to unify the Mega and GMax mechanics into one universal mechanic, rather than two separate gimmicks that seem pretty locked to the games they're in.
I played through Shield shortly after launch, and ended up getting bored and quitting before the final gym battle. Now that I've finally beat it and I'm playing through the DLC, I really love what they did with that added content. Hopefully, the next games pull a lot from Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra.
I played through Shield shortly after launch, and ended up getting bored and quitting before the final gym battle. Now that I've finally beat it and I'm playing through the DLC, I really love what they did with that added content. Hopefully, the next games pull a lot from Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra.
Nothing completely goes with Pokémon.
I don't know where this mindset comes from that they just drop battle mechanics, especially those with unique forms, when they didn't do that prior to Gen 8; Megas were in Gen 7 (despite people everywhere insisting they needed to be dropped).
Megas, Dynamax and Z-Moves are in spin-off games, and even in the current series of the anime; Ash has faced Mega Evolved Pokémon as well as using Dynamax and Z-Moves during his battles, and thus they will never go away. Megas were also originally planned to be in SWSH. They'll undoubtedly be back in future games, as will Dynamax and Z-Moves.
Megas were in Gen 7.In spinoffs, sure. In main games
I'm sure things will come back at a later point. Nothing is gone forever, and I don't get from where this notion has come
they could have brought back megas as Gigantamaxes. don't know why they didn't.
and no, I don't have hope of them bringing all these things back. competitive-twisting mechanics are the things that are least likely to come back. non-competitive stuff, we're still waiting on. seasons, horde battles, triples/rotation battles, etc. I just want consistency. existing for a gen or two isn't consistency
They should just adopt Pokemon Stadium rules. They've had the proper template for years!
Because Megas aren't Gigantamax. It's a completely different concept? That's why they didn't
the forms themselves are what's important, not so much the function behind them. that's what people miss
That's not how any of this works? The concept is key. They can't just use forms interchangeably for no reason other than to just use the form appearances
Like I said before, I hope they don't make any more big form change gimmicks like Megas and Gmax and just have both of those in all games going forward and regularly make new ones of both.
It's their series, they can literally do whatever they want. There wasn't anything stopping them from recycling Mega designs as Gmax forms.
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of course they can. like I said, the forms themselves are the moneymaker
They like consistency, it makes no sense for Megas to be activated on Dynamax.
They are Mega Evolution, not Gigantamax. There is a difference in lore.
I wouldn't exactly say Pokemon lore is consistent. Also they very easily could have come up with a reason, or even changed the lore for Dynamax a bit. It's not like Dynamax as a concept came from the void, GameFreak created it and they very easily could have made the recycling of Mega designs make sense.
Or they could keep things separate so it's not ridiculously confusing?
I don't get why them having separate things be separate things is suddenly maligned here
you can't say they want to keep things from being confusing when the same company came up with alternate timelines to explain why a remake suddenly has megas. they don't need an excuse, people will just accept the forms they like are back
having separate things isn't the problem. Megas and Maxing are separate, mechanics-wise and that's fine. but the forms don't have to be separate. especially when they have an excuse to bring them back as they do with G-Maxing
I think you underestimate how much they care about consistency/lore
who, Game Freak or the public? GF themselves is inconsistent, I think. the whole thing with ORAS rubbed me the wrong way, but that's because I find that kind of writing, regardless of medium, terrible. but at the same time, they didn't bother trying to weave together Giratina/Distortion World with Hoopa with the Ultra Beasts. better for it, really
If they wanted to reuse Megas as Gigantamax they could have done it, sure. The thing is, they didn't. I have to agree with Serebii that they tend to care about lore more than many give them credit for. And as much as I miss Megas, I glad they didn't mix and blunder those concepts. There's a strategic layer rooted in megaevolution related to the ability and type changes which would be entirely lost if they were simply retconned as Gigantamax.
I also believe that they intend to benefit from the grand returnal of Megas sooner than later (hopefully in BDSP or in a future SwSh patch) and that would be another powerful reason for keeping them separate.
I also believe that they intend to benefit from the grand returnal of Megas sooner than later (hopefully in BDSP or in a future SwSh patch) and that would be another powerful reason for keeping them separate.
Game Freak are actually very consistent. Until SWSH they were insistent that evolution methods/form changes were to be things that the Pokémon would not have been able to do. It's why Leafeon & Glaceon were through location until SWSH, but that of course started creating such bloat that they'd need an area with electricity surging, an area with a Moss Rock, an Icy Rock etc.
However, they have always been consistent with this. If a Pokémon existed in the same game as say a Fire Stone but couldn't evolve, then got a new evolution, it wouldn't use the Fire Stone.
They are very consistent with their internal lore and logic. I don't know where you're getting that they're not, just because they made Zinnia say about alternate universes. If anything that brings the consistency up but allows them to be creative.
I feel like all the speculation that is going around at this moment, as fun as that may be, it's still the same we see before every new generation and it always comes in full circle argument-wise: the usual Italy/Australia/Greece/Spain regions for obvious notable landmarks and historical reasons, the Mega debacle and so on.
Gen 9 aside, which I'd date for 2023 (and still a Switch game) if I had to take a guess, what I wonder is, with ILCA remakes being almost here, if we may get another "faithful remake" in between titles in the same vein.
Many people would think Unova (which I wouldn't like, especially with the problems of dealing with B/W2, give us Legends Kyurem please!) I think that we may actually see a SS/HG ILCA-style remake instead.
At this point It may seem more logical than a "Let's go Pichu" game considering that the engine for BDSP is already here with all the required quirks (including following Pokémon and so on), the original games are highly praised (and sought for in the used market, for insane prices) and with ILCA developing GF could still focus on other projects.
These are just the random thoughts of a musing fan though, we know that it can be very hard to predict how the Pokémon franchise moves sometimes but oh well, it would make so much sense.
Probably too much.
Gen 9 aside, which I'd date for 2023 (and still a Switch game) if I had to take a guess, what I wonder is, with ILCA remakes being almost here, if we may get another "faithful remake" in between titles in the same vein.
Many people would think Unova (which I wouldn't like, especially with the problems of dealing with B/W2, give us Legends Kyurem please!) I think that we may actually see a SS/HG ILCA-style remake instead.
At this point It may seem more logical than a "Let's go Pichu" game considering that the engine for BDSP is already here with all the required quirks (including following Pokémon and so on), the original games are highly praised (and sought for in the used market, for insane prices) and with ILCA developing GF could still focus on other projects.
These are just the random thoughts of a musing fan though, we know that it can be very hard to predict how the Pokémon franchise moves sometimes but oh well, it would make so much sense.
Probably too much.
Currently playing or replaying some older games so this is my wish for gen9 :
-Higher difficulty. I think the DS games were pretty on point in that regard : not too easy but not too hard. The games became a bit too easy with the 3DS.
-if it means they can focus more on the remaining/new monsters, I don't mind if they continue to cut older monsters. Actually I would be very happy with a gen5 approach.
-please, bring more regional forms, it is such a great idea !
-better starters this time. SwSh starters were pretty boring in the sense they were all "big round heads, small bodies". Gen 5, 6 and 7 were great in that regards, great diversity in the starters.
-keep the more free exploration introduced in gen 8 and Legend Arceus...but at the same time I don't want it to be at the expanse of some more "crafted" area. My ideal would be Gen 8 but with more wild areas.
-Higher difficulty. I think the DS games were pretty on point in that regard : not too easy but not too hard. The games became a bit too easy with the 3DS.
-if it means they can focus more on the remaining/new monsters, I don't mind if they continue to cut older monsters. Actually I would be very happy with a gen5 approach.
-please, bring more regional forms, it is such a great idea !
-better starters this time. SwSh starters were pretty boring in the sense they were all "big round heads, small bodies". Gen 5, 6 and 7 were great in that regards, great diversity in the starters.
-keep the more free exploration introduced in gen 8 and Legend Arceus...but at the same time I don't want it to be at the expanse of some more "crafted" area. My ideal would be Gen 8 but with more wild areas.
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yes. probably through Home transfer, but I see them getting in
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I hope they are apart of the base game without Home but i would be fine with just using Home
Give it more of an RPG feel with a main story like the Gyms and Pokemon League or Championship. But also give us sidestories we can do. A bit like Skyrim of BotW where there are several stories intertwined with a main story as well that scales on your level. Or perhaps parts of a side story is locked behind doing a gym etc. Still I think that gyms should start scale on level a bit more.
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Lockstin & Gnoggin's theory is that Zarude is potentially hinting a India Reigon with the Zarude being based on an animal existing in India plus the use of bangles on Zarude's design which are worn primarily by Indian Women.
And you know what - i actually agree with him. Pokemon India has kinda been hinted in S/S due to Cufant and Copperajah
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Cufant and Copperajah are more references to Gen 1, with Raichu's pokedex entry.
my issue with the theory is that, GF has been explicit in the past about hints, the one time they did it. the tiki figurine in ORAS was explicitly meant to tease Alola. now, one time isn't a trend an all that, but I don't think there's much of a point in teasing like this if you aren't gonna reveal it was a tease all along
my issue with the theory is that, GF has been explicit in the past about hints, the one time they did it. the tiki figurine in ORAS was explicitly meant to tease Alola. now, one time isn't a trend an all that, but I don't think there's much of a point in teasing like this if you aren't gonna reveal it was a tease all along
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Fair point, it is an intresting thought. I still think Copperjah is hinting at a India Pokemon Reigon though:
"They came over from another region long ago and worked together with humans. Their green skin is resistant to water."
Brazil or India would not suprise me and would definetly bring intresting ideas to Gen 9 especially India. I wanna see how they tackle legendaries considering there is so much potential with Hinduism mythology for potential Pokemon.