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DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,466
The last game had 807, there was 0 doubt that the new games would have them all before it was announced they wouldn't.

That was one of the main arguments whenever someone complained about how let's go lacked a lot of pokemon, even just evolutions of gen 1 pokemon could be added, but "you'll get your game next year"


I personally think they should do a clean break, then slowly roll out the old ones, atleast that way we might actually get something different, that's not what's happening here though.

I thought with Pokemon Lets go that they would try and run multiple series in tandem

One experimental and one Mainstay

The problem being... in which series do you cater to fans and which one do you try to innovate and change the game?

In both cases they were half steps where 50% of the game was new and old ideas on both titles and no one is happy
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
We can be frustrated, but we don't need to send death threats. With that being said, Game Freak needs to be more open instead of playing coy with their fans. IIRC, Japan never got an official announcement that they were cutting Pokémon.
That's another frustrating thing, none of this stuff is told to us before release.

How many returning Pokémon will there be?
"Wait for the release"
What Pokémon will be cut?
"Wait for the release"
What features will be cut?
"Wait for the release"

The fact that we've had to rely on leaks to learn this stuff before the game's launch is crazy.
This sums it up pretty well. Why is the marketing like this? It's either they reveal too much (Sun and Moon) or they reveal very little drip feeds.
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
We can be frustrated, but we don't need to send death threats. With that being said, Game Freak needs to be more open instead of playing coy with their fans. IIRC, Japan never got an official announcement that they were cutting Pokémon.
This is what I'm talking about when I say openness and honesty. They never lied to fans, but they never offered the full truth.
 

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Again, as I said I look at it from quite the distance. But canceling an event in fear of protests doesn't sound like it's all fine and dandy over there...

Well regardless of the quality of this game, they did nothing to deserve the protests, threats or to be put in actual danger. So the idea that they should be punished is victim blaming.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,879
I mean, there really isn't a "good" reason.

There's a totally understandable reason, which would be mismanagement, but there's nothing in this game specifically that should make anyone think cutting over half of the dex (and some of the most iconic Pokémon) out of the game is worth it.

Like, full, future proofed 3D models of every Pokémon up through gen 6 were made for X/Y ($35 3DS games). Yet, they can only put 400 in for these $60 home console releases? Are we getting like, expanded post game for this? (No). How about better roster balance? (No). How about redoing the models and animations for the 400 returning Pokémon. Stuff like new stances, significantly more battle animations, animations that help them move naturally in the world? (No).

Enjoy the game. I'm sure it'll be fine, and totally in line with the past few years of the franchise. But come on, there's really no defense for this.
What's even worse is that they're gonna be arbitrarily leaving Pokemon out of future games for no reason.

If Gen 4 remakes happen next year, they've pretty much already said that some of the 400 that made it into Sword and Shield will get left out, even though their models and animations are already done. Why? Just because. They really just want to normalize having a constantly rotating roster of Pokemon, even though they don't HAVE to withhold Pokemon from us if they don't want to at that point, which is absurd.
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,936
This is what I'm talking about when I say openness and honesty. They never lied to fans, but they never offered the full truth.
Thinking on it, this is how they've always operated. Back with ORAS, Masuda was asked if the Battle Frontier will return and while he never said it would, he didn't deny it either. He would just tell people to look forward to the game.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
So shouldn't future Pokémon games have more Pokémon in them now (from the start) with these first set of games jumped to HD out of the way?
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
Not if those customers are bullying Game Freak.
I mean, if you read what I said I'm talking about before the latest news. Last year when they announced it. Open up an honest line of communication and the impact would have been lessened, but they didn't, the obfuscated the truth and hoped for the best.
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,378
I thought with Pokemon Lets go that they would try and run multiple series in tandem

One experimental and one Mainstay

The problem being... in which series do you cater to fans and which one do you try to innovate and change the game?

In both cases they were half steps where 50% of the game was new and old ideas on both titles and no one is happy

I think my problem with Let's Go is that it really wasn't experimental, atleast not in any meaningful way.

The biggest thing it had was overworld roaming pokemon, and that was done in the most visually uninteresting way in a region that was completely unsuited for it where they stuck way too much to the original map.

If they had actually done a remake where they re-envisioned the entire map of Kanto to make it so actually exploring and searching for roaming pokemon was fun as well as included modern features and included all the new pokemon but disabled them from following you, I'd have been there day 1 for it.

Instead we got something that was heavily geared towards the Go audience, which we have no idea if it even resonated well with, I wouldn't be surprised if most people who bought it were just pokemon fans who wanted a console pokemon, not people who needed Go style catching to make them feel comfortable because their only experience was the mobile game.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,086
There any place I can read more about this without getting Pokémon spoiled?

Since the game is not out yet, some of the online functionality might be inactive or waiting for day one patch.
Basically the person leaking can't find the option for GTS anywhere in the game. It may be there and just require you to be online before giving you the option, which, obviously, they can't be. But that would be a change.

Basically, no one can say for sure, but given Let's Go not having the GTS and Home on the horizon, people are concerned.
 

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
I would imagine tensions are definitely high in Japan, so I can entirely understand Masuda and the other bigwigs not wanting to show up in public out of fear of something happening to them.

However, I also don't think Game Freak has been entirely open about this stuff, not that there's any excuse for death threats or whatever else. That's always inexcusable.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
Thinking on it, this is how they've always operated. Back with ORAS, Masuda was asked if the Battle Frontier will return and while he never said it would, he didn't deny it either. He would just tell people to look forward to the game.
Have I mentioned before that I don't much care for Masuda?
Because I really don't care for Masuda.
Even aside from the fact that I don't care for the direction he has taken the series in, the man is a walking PR disaster. He can't interview well to save his life.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
I feel for gamefreak. Working for 3+ years on their first hd game by the main team and than get treated like shit.

I mean did people really expect we would have a pokedex of 800+ pokemon in a single game?

Maybe they should have just do a clean break and only do new pokemon.
It's not that far fetched of an expectation. Mainline Pokemon games all had full rosters IIRC, minus the ones you get through trades.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
They also blame James Turner for the designs this gen that they don't like from the leaks and going as far as to tweet him crude photoshops. Shameful indeed.
I'm sure there are Japanese fans hating on James Turner (since the series is big enough there will be fans that do literally anything imaginable) but those photoshops were all in good fun. If it's the one I'm thinking of (Turnervolt), I don't even think the creator disliked the design they were playing off of.
 

Machine Law

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,106
I doubt it's about the National Dex thing. I'm convinced it's just a small group of people making a lot of noise.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,466
I think my problem with Let's Go is that it really wasn't experimental, atleast not in any meaningful way.

The biggest thing it had was overworld roaming pokemon, and that was done in the most visually uninteresting way in a region that was completely unsuited for it where they stuck way too much to the original map.

If they had actually done a remake where they re-envisioned the entire map of Kanto to make it so actually exploring and searching for roaming pokemon was fun as well as included modern features and included all the new pokemon but disabled them from following you, I'd have been there day 1 for it.

Instead we got something that was heavily geared towards the Go audience, which we have no idea if it even resonated well with, I wouldn't be surprised if most people who bought it were just pokemon fans who wanted a console pokemon, not people who needed Go style catching to make them feel comfortable because their only experience was the mobile game.

I like about 50% of the ideas GO used and 50% of what Sword and Shield are bringing but I also know that if those ideas were combined that it still wouldn't be the ideal experience

They are getting closer to something good but these half steps arent enough
 

dunkzilla

alt account
Banned
Dec 13, 2018
4,762
I haven't bought this game yet

Also buying a product does not require that a company open their inner workings to you. Literally no company does this.
I'm not talking about inner workings. Jesus. I'm talking about the product they're selling. But sure if you want developers to hide bad news and still try and sell you the game, all the power to you.
 

Naudyboy

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 6, 2019
179
Wow this sounds ludicrous, people are very anal about their Pokémon games I see.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
I haven't bought this game yet

Also buying a product does not require that a company open their inner workings to you. Literally no company does this.
They really needed to tell us which Pokémon would return and which ones would be cut. Even after finding out about the cut, most people were assuming GF would just trim the fat. But there are a ton (like really, a surprising amount) of iconic omissions.

And dropping major online functionality, but not telling anyone pre-release is something that wouldn't be tolerated coming from any other developer making games for a franchise as big as Pokémon.
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,378
I like about 50% of the ideas GO used and 50% of what Sword and Shield are bringing but I also know that if those ideas were combined that it still wouldn't be the ideal experience

They are getting closer to something good but these half steps arent enough

It's a mixture of poor management and a lack of development time.

On one hand you have the people at the top asking why people want certain features because people would rather play on their phones now and then on the other hand you have the marketing machine of the TCG, anime, movies, merchandise and all this other paraphernalia that's forcing things to be in constant motion and on schedule.

Until something gives, every pokemon game is going to be a 50% approach.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Basically the person leaking can't find the option for GTS anywhere in the game. It may be there and just require you to be online before giving you the option, which, obviously, they can't be. But that would be a change.

Basically, no one can say for sure, but given Let's Go not having the GTS and Home on the horizon, people are concerned.
Are there other online features that are functional?
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
I think everyone is very aware of what the product is.
We only know how many Pokemon were cut, which ones were cut, the lack of GTS, and the lack of post-game areas thanks to leakers.

Combine that with Game Freak barely sending out any review copies and only announcing that Pokemon would be cut at all in an off the cuff statement during the Treehouse livestream at E3, I'm not sure how you can say they're being transparent about this huge change to the series.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
Why? Other games aren't required to tell you everything that's in the game before release.


How is that at all similar?
They cut over half of the Pokémon, and cut some of the most iconic Pokémon in the entire franchise. It's definitely something that should have been handled better lol.

Same goes for cutting major chunks of online functionality. Especially when we're paying for online now.
 
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