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Pokémon problems
- Thread starter EddyZacianLand
- Start date
The biggest problem Pokemon has is the tendency to just scrap good ideas for content between titles for what seems like no rhyme or reason.
Not talking about the Pokemon cuts here, just other gameplay features. I wouldn't be surprised if gen 9 loses some/all of the stuff gen 8 and its DLC added to make raising competitive Pokemon easier, for example.
There's a weird narrative on here that Pokemon games are bad now, and I just don't understand it. Could they be better? Absolutely, but they're not bad games. A lot of people just have these unrealistic expectations of a game that Game Freak won't and can't provide, and they blame it on Game Freak being bad, and not impossible demands, especially considering the hardware.
Not talking about the Pokemon cuts here, just other gameplay features. I wouldn't be surprised if gen 9 loses some/all of the stuff gen 8 and its DLC added to make raising competitive Pokemon easier, for example.
There's a weird narrative on here that Pokemon games are bad now, and I just don't understand it. Could they be better? Absolutely, but they're not bad games. A lot of people just have these unrealistic expectations of a game that Game Freak won't and can't provide, and they blame it on Game Freak being bad, and not impossible demands, especially considering the hardware.
This. If Game freak needs helps is with the level design and script not the graphics.
I don't see why it matters that Gamefreak 'owns' the IP? People license out IPs and outsource development all the time. Nintendo owns Mario, but that doesn't mean Nintendo doesn't tap studios like Camelot and Alphadream to develop some Mario games, why can't GF do the same?
other developers have made vast spin-offs of pokemon games already. at this point there are probably more non-GF titles than GF titles. But Nintendo has never handed off a "'mainline" 3D Mario (or 2D), and I don't see anything happening with GF/Pokemon any time soon
If you're gonna quit Pokémon Go, then go
She said to me on RotomPhone
So tired of hearin' all your Poké problems
If you're gonna pay then pay
TPC's not gonna change anyway
So tired of hearin' all your Poké problems
And I know Serebii is right
And I should not be offended
Yeah, I know what it looks like from the outside
I know Serebii's right
And I should not be offended
Yeah, I know what it looks like from the outside, but I'm on Era so I'm seldom outside
Poké problems, who's got 'em?
I've got 'em too (Ratta-Ratta-Rattata)
Poké trouble, quality trouble
Don't know what to do (Ratta-Ratta-Rattata)
I think I broke up with Pokémon today and I care too much
I've got literally zero worse problems (Than "I broke up with Pokémon")
I think I broke up with Pokémon today and I care so much I'm making threads on Era
She said to me on RotomPhone
So tired of hearin' all your Poké problems
If you're gonna pay then pay
TPC's not gonna change anyway
So tired of hearin' all your Poké problems
And I know Serebii is right
And I should not be offended
Yeah, I know what it looks like from the outside
I know Serebii's right
And I should not be offended
Yeah, I know what it looks like from the outside, but I'm on Era so I'm seldom outside
Poké problems, who's got 'em?
I've got 'em too (Ratta-Ratta-Rattata)
Poké trouble, quality trouble
Don't know what to do (Ratta-Ratta-Rattata)
I think I broke up with Pokémon today and I care too much
I've got literally zero worse problems (Than "I broke up with Pokémon")
I think I broke up with Pokémon today and I care so much I'm making threads on Era
I know Sword and Shield were underwhelming in many aspects, but this forum is fucking wild LMAO (and the toxic fanbase....ugh).
Is that supposed to be a gotcha lol?
All that, and the 21 million sales of the last game, shows is that a lot more people don't have a problem with Pokemon than those who do.
Graphics aren't a must, they are just emblematic about how assembly line the games have become.
Frankly the biggest problem with pokemon is the legion of toxic fans who leap down your throat if you offer even mild criticism.
Like if you ask me what my ideal pokemon games is I would say:
- Take the basic pokemon formula. Now add a difficulty system so more advanced players can enjoy the campaign.
- full pokedex. None of this vaulting a pokemon until a new dlc comes out BS.
- Go through the existing list of pokemon and try to make as many older pokemon viable as you can. Add megas or exclusive Z moves to some that need them, evolutions to others and stat/moveset adjustments to those that don't qualify for the above.
- give pokemon that aren't supposed to be viable some reason for the player to invest in them. maybe baby pokemon all learn a really powerful move that their more adult forms can't so you need to keep them unevolved until they learn that move and can then pass it on to eggs.
-rebalance the typing chart: water and steel are OP, poison and ice are all but useless.
- don't lock move tutors behind a paywall
-add new (or tweak existing) moves and abilities to add variety of play. Maybe eviolite variants that boost attack stats or speed.Maybe give pokemon the ability to use 2 turn attacks in a single turn at the cost of recoil. Maybe a ground type healing move or more special rock type moves based around shooting sand at things.
-allow balance patches instead of requiring us to purchase a whole new game to fix issues that come up.
Regional variants are nice but not at all necessary. Hell just a palette swap so we can get a green gyarados or a white pikachu would be fine even if the stats don't change.
New pokemon are also not necessary. If you are hard set on having new characters to sell, focus on evolutions of old pokemon to make them more viable, or animals that have not been represented. How do we not have a dolphin or fire ant pokemon yet?
As you can see, my ideal pokemon game is something you could patch into existing pokemon games if you wanted to. There are romhacks of old snes games that are more ambitious. And most are just features that have been standard in games for decades. And yet you have legions of fans ready to attack me as 'entitled' for wanting something incredibly modest. THAT is the issue.
Gamefreak isn't the problem, they are the symptom of a fanbase that refuses to ask them to do better.
All I want is a good, difficult single-player campaign, and a good, easy to train for multiplayer experience. I don't understand why that's so difficult.
I think it's catastrophic that so many people play something like Pokémon Showdown. Nintendo has a potential League of Legends on their hands and they just do nothing about it.
Sword and Shield were mediocre single-player wise, but actually there were some good steps on the multiplayer front, except they had to ruin the battle system with Dynamax. If Dynamax hadn't been a thing I would've actually been decently pleased with the game, but it just destroys the battle system.
As for the graphics, sure, they should be better, but that's not what's going to make or break the game for me. It's all about the game design. I want difficult 6v6 trainer battles, and I want to explore wilderness with intimidating legendary Pokémon at the end of a dungeon. I'm tired of stomping bug catcher Joey who has one Caterpie and one Weedle. The battle system is great, make us actually use it.
I think it's catastrophic that so many people play something like Pokémon Showdown. Nintendo has a potential League of Legends on their hands and they just do nothing about it.
Sword and Shield were mediocre single-player wise, but actually there were some good steps on the multiplayer front, except they had to ruin the battle system with Dynamax. If Dynamax hadn't been a thing I would've actually been decently pleased with the game, but it just destroys the battle system.
As for the graphics, sure, they should be better, but that's not what's going to make or break the game for me. It's all about the game design. I want difficult 6v6 trainer battles, and I want to explore wilderness with intimidating legendary Pokémon at the end of a dungeon. I'm tired of stomping bug catcher Joey who has one Caterpie and one Weedle. The battle system is great, make us actually use it.
This is fucking amazing.
On topic: the OP is exceptionally insubstantial but people often speculate about what different developers would be able to do with an IP. It's not a uniquely pokemon thing, and is understandable when people aren't happy with the scale and/or scope of the game.
And graphics are tbh the least of the problems with modern pokemon (though they are more noticeable when the rest of the package is not particularly exceptional).
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My ideal Pokemon wouldn't have a full dex, because I don't think we need it. So what now,?
I think you just illustrated my point. I'm asking for something, and you are asking for me not to get that something just because YOU don't personally want to use it. THAT is entitlement.
I'm not trying to force you to use pokemon you don't want to but you want to force me to use pokemon I don't want to and prevent me from using the ones I do. My way allows everyoen to use what they want. Your way forces everyone to play by your personal rules.
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So because I want them to spend that time that they use on every Pokémon in one game, on other stuff to make it better I am entitled??
It's clear at this point that having every Pokémon in 1 game would require the game sacrifice something else.
Those are games mainly aimed at little kids, its fun see old ass people make so much drama over its quality, remember temtem the pokemon killer?, they listen a lot of the clamors people had yet you rarely hear a mention of it anymore, no wait, is temtem still a thing? why doe we not hear as much ? never mind I m out of the loop porbably.
Why is that "clear"? What illustrates your point that it would require a sacrifice? It's never been done, how could you declare that it requires a sacrifice?
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Legends Arceus won't have every Pokémon in it, and the pokemon in have animations that are more higher quality than in SwSh, and as we go on we will see more and benefits of it.
Am I entitled to want to see those benefits?
You don't know if those benefits are a product of not having a full dex.
Fucking hell, I've never seen this much hypocrisy crammed into such a small space before.
You moaning that the newer games should have your favourite Pokémon is entitlement fwiw. Games do not and should not have identical content as the series progresses, with more added on. This just a silly bloated way to make games.
Try other Pokémon out! Maybe you'll like them! Or better yet, go back to playing the game that has them in it.
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Yes I do, because it's less Pokemon to be animated which means that each Pokemon's animations can be higher quality.
Legends Arceus is a Monster Hunter-style game. What that game is presenting, aside from new Pokemon models that would carry forward, is not going to be representative of the core generational titles.
Logical point. So why settle for less? Why doesn't Gamefreak outsource, or hire more devs?
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OK then, wait until gen 9 to see the benefits then, because that game won't have every Pokémon in it and will greatly benefit from it.
Why is Game Freak the only company on this site whose fans are toxic for not using a lazy dev rhetoric lol?
Keep in mind that for every post offering mild criticism, there are about 100 going "Game Freak sucks, I could make a better game, they're useless" etc.
A lot of your issues seem to come from balance, but surely you must be able to comprehend how difficult it would be to balance everything to as close a grouping of viability as you'd like? Sure, there are some truly crappy Pokemon that you could easily make better, but what about something like Vileplume, a favourite of mine which has kinda sucked forever, even after receiving a SpAtk boost a few gens back? On paper it's a great Pokemon, just held back by some of its stats: 50 speed is awfully slow, so you bump this to say 70-75, and maybe it could use a slight buff to HP, from 75 to 80 or so. Congrats, Vileplume is fixed now, and is better than it normally is. Except now you're using it on a sun team and it's outspeeding a hell of a lot of much better Pokemon, and it's even more bulky and hitting just as hard as usual, and then all of a sudden this single Pokemon is causing a lot of trouble for a whole heap of other Pokemon, who will in turn possibly need tweaking solely because of new Vileplume.
I just think a lot more resources should be allocated into the "main" games. In terms of graphics, performance, production values - the games are a step below most other Nintendo games. Gameplay is debatable since some people do enjoy the recent games but I think the general consensus is that there should be an improvement in the technical fidelity of Pokemon games, at least to reflect them being AAA games that generate a LOT of money and utilize one of the most popular IPs in the entire world.
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The Pokemon models aren't done by GF they are done by creatures inc, so they already do that and have a fuck ton of people working on them.
Including all forms, there's over 1000 different Pokemon.
We don't need them in every game, especially not at launch.
But I see your mind is set, that anyone that prefers a cut dex is an entitled shit.
It's always "wow, Pokémon fans are so toxic when we have criticisms. Also these lazy fucking devs should put every Pokémon in" and it's wild.
Yeah; just shows Twitter. And people in Korea really hating Rare despite and most likely not knowing about Rare.
ie. Just shows NA has more troll accounts tagging Game Freak to whine rather than actual dislike. Their data was based on the use words rather than facts.
I'm literally asking them to take the assets they already have and keep putting them in the games. Which they are doing, only peacemeal and behind a series of 20-60 dollar pay walls.
Why pokemon is the only game whose fanbase seems to welcome being gouged is beyond me.
Let's not get too heated, I was never the one bandying about the term "entitled". I just think Gamefreak (and I guess by extension Creatures Inc) could stand to take more time on development. The games are bad for reasons beyond just a full dex, which I don't even really care for, it's just one example in a sea of issues.
They do that anyways. This fanbase is nothing if not impatient and caustic
Tbf your post response didn't imply 'I think prioritization should be given to other facets of gameplay over a massive dex and here's why'. It reads as A: "I would like if game had X additional content" B:"Ideally I think game should not have X". It's hard to read more into that beyond just telling someone they shouldn't ask for things, which while not entitlement would probably engender more ire than you intend, at least as a proxy for shutting down criticism. It looks worse because that is the only part of the poster's fairly substantial response to your extremely content-light OP that you bothered to address, so it doesn't read like a discussion.
Edit: like I don't want to be needlessly harsh or anything but when you don't set an appropriate context with your initial post and then don't holistically respond to others it's not a super great look.
It's not just pokemon. It's any massively popular and/or expensive brand. Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Activision Blizzard etc. will all have staunch defenders of the prioritization of profit and consumerism above product calibre. I get it makes sense for the company, but I always find it baffling how many end users will adopt the 'this is fine' mentality with these sorts of things, especially when a lot of these companies could still be extremely profitable even if they invested more in the end user experience (and when so many of the issues are things solved by one or more other companies/brands/games).
At the end of the day it's just people identifying with brands etc. and this is one of the ways this sort of stuff manifests.
Fwiw I don't loathe the new games or anything. It's not that worth getting worked up about brands or products in general. I do find them far more inconsistent and a mixed bag compared to the DS games, and arguably the earlier titles too. Probably the most disappointing aspect for me is that it feels as though the pokemon generations aren't particularly iterative. Far too many elements are introduced all at once, and then very few of them are retained or polished. Makes it hard to get invested in any one mechanic. Aside from that, the handholding nature of modern games is a turnoff, and I hope BDSP at least shine a spotlight on the values of that sort of approach.
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Is this an argument? I'm confused by your post. Why wouldn't it fix the graphics?
The problem is simple, it's greed. It's amazing all the people here that defend the Gamefreak CEO's buying new cars and mansions after every game, while they run skeleton crews to develop their indie like games. They could easily expand and outsource to 1000+ developer teams, but that would mean cutting out a hot tub in their 8 acre backyards. Gamefreak is simply everything that's wrong with Capitalism
McDonalds is the most popular food in the world. Does that mean it's good food?
Popularity =/= quality.
Pokemon does sell well. But the games are always the bare minimum they can get away with and continue to sell.
People would like a fine dining pokmemon game. It has the potential to be an amazing experience. But we're stuck with junk food pokemon. That does indeed sell.
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You may think that Pokemon is such low quality but obviously a lot of people disagree that.
People wouldn't drop the money for a game that they wouldn't enjoy and as long as there's people enjoying Pokemon it will sell and Gamefreak has to be doing something right or the sales would drop.
If people thought that a Pokemon was low quality and didn't look fun to play, they wouldn't buy it.
My only problem with Pokémon right now is the notion of no main Pokémon game will ever contain all the existing Pokémon (or so everything hints at it), yet a mobile app, Pokémon Go, will.
And more horrifying the increasing number of people that don't have or see a problem with it, because apparently they can't deal with the idea of everyone being able to have any Pokémon they want when they just care for the six Pokémon that make their competitive teams.
I've said this many times, but consoles will only get better and more capable with time, and it's sad and unfair that games in general, not just Pokémon, won't take advantage of their full capabilities. They need to take their time to develop new games, but they need to be more ambitious. It won't matter if they change to another studio, if they'll want to keep releasing games every two years or so for the rest of the eternity.
I think they need to bring new series into the franchise, like Mystery Dungeon, or Ranger, or something, not necessarily those, but something new, and give them the mainline treatment. Like, if the next mainline game is gonna take 5 years to be developed, then in the meantime we'll get these spin-off's developed by other studios, but they won't be these cheap mobile apps, but like actual full games and will really have all their attention, with events, maybe tournaments if they're suitable, etc.
Just like how Mario has the Super Mario Bros. games, or similars, but also Mario Party, and Mario Kart, and the sports games, etc.
And more horrifying the increasing number of people that don't have or see a problem with it, because apparently they can't deal with the idea of everyone being able to have any Pokémon they want when they just care for the six Pokémon that make their competitive teams.
I've said this many times, but consoles will only get better and more capable with time, and it's sad and unfair that games in general, not just Pokémon, won't take advantage of their full capabilities. They need to take their time to develop new games, but they need to be more ambitious. It won't matter if they change to another studio, if they'll want to keep releasing games every two years or so for the rest of the eternity.
I think they need to bring new series into the franchise, like Mystery Dungeon, or Ranger, or something, not necessarily those, but something new, and give them the mainline treatment. Like, if the next mainline game is gonna take 5 years to be developed, then in the meantime we'll get these spin-off's developed by other studios, but they won't be these cheap mobile apps, but like actual full games and will really have all their attention, with events, maybe tournaments if they're suitable, etc.
Just like how Mario has the Super Mario Bros. games, or similars, but also Mario Party, and Mario Kart, and the sports games, etc.
At this point I'm not sure if it's an issue with Game Freak or with The Pokémon Company, to be honest. I think GF is a perfectly competent studio that's just struggling with bigger games right now, and I'm not sure if it's because of the deadlines/budget TPC gives them or they just aren't ready to tackle big games yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that TPC just doesn't give them a bigger budget for game development and they have to do the best they can with what they have. I definitely don't think it's "lazy devs", as a lot of people claim, but it may be an issue with the higher-ups at GF, too.
It's hard to tell from the outside, really.
And, just to be clear, I still think Pokémon games are great despite their shortcomings. I still have a lot of fun with them. I know they could be more, but I don't think they're as awful as a lot of people say they are.
I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that TPC just doesn't give them a bigger budget for game development and they have to do the best they can with what they have. I definitely don't think it's "lazy devs", as a lot of people claim, but it may be an issue with the higher-ups at GF, too.
It's hard to tell from the outside, really.
And, just to be clear, I still think Pokémon games are great despite their shortcomings. I still have a lot of fun with them. I know they could be more, but I don't think they're as awful as a lot of people say they are.
Pokemon Go doesn't have all pokemons and it took them years to get to the number that they have now. They add new ones every month or so. Mainline games don't have the lux of adding new pokemons slowly over time.
Keep in mind they have never cut out competitive focused features. Bottle Caps, for example, debuted in Sun and Moon and are still here today. Or Synchronise making easier to get the desired Nature since Emerald (it even got better at Sword and Shield as it now works 100% of the time). Pretty sure they'll keep Exp Candies or make something similar going forward, no doubts.
EV Training, on the other hand.........
I mean, it would most likely fix the problem if we are talking about graphics. Biggest IP in the world and look at Arceus compared to monster hunter rise. It is really sad. Have practically endless financial backing and that is what they produce
people make excuses for the more routine releases saying they are held back by havin to stick to a structure but anytime Gamefreak tries to go out of that structure, such as open areas in sword and shield, or a different IP, it is an absolute failure given the scope of the IP itself. Arceus has likely had both ample dev time and ample financing as well as far less restriction design wise and it still looks how it looks
Like I said you could make the same argument about McDonalds.
Just because Pokémon games sell well doesn't mean they can't be better or that they are fulfilling their potential.
Why would you, as a consumer, care that the games make Nintendo and Gamefreak a lot of money? That doesn't benefit you. What benefits you is them making the best damn game they can. And I'm sorry but Sword and Shield, and what Acreus looks to be, are not the best games Pokémon can be.
This "you should be thankful for what you get, and be happy Gamefreak make loads of money" attitude is really bizarre.
Capcom made a better Pokémon game with monster hunter stories 2 than gamefreak ever have. Let that sink in.
There is absolutely no reason that Gamefreak cant do what CoD, AC, and other companies have done at this point. Biggest IP in the world, they can expand their studio and do rotating launches to give them more time if that was the only problem. Plenty of money to do so. I'm not calling them lazy but at some point I have no choice but to see it as just a competence issue
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You may think Pokemon is currently a low quality franchise and don't enjoy it at the moment, which is fine.
But Pokemon is still selling well and I loads who think SwSh is their favourite Pokemon game.
Are people intentionally buying games they know they won't enjoy?