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Oct 25, 2017
5,631
There's no "easy" way to find someone who's been aggrieved enough over the last two gens worth of Pokedrama but has also tried to look at the past games with a modern point of view. No, every recent entry killed the franchise.

It's true every Pokemon game is someone's first one. Hell, usually it's someones first game, full stop. I know I've introduced many people to that medium with these games.

But I also think every Pokemon game is also someone's last one too. I don't necessarily see that as a negative.

In this thread every single entry somehow gets criticised retroactively, but people who must feel passionate can also surely see that your complaints - about this modern issue here and now with the current gen games - are diminished considerably if we're also going to dredge up faults with Let's Go and er, Pokemon Stadium for the N64.

I mean I hear nothing but how Genwunners ruin everything, being a proud one of those I'm bemused at most of the drama that follows each new release.

I would prefer to stay out of Reddits and Discords but it's not exactly easy when you are trying to dive into the deep mechanics we love these games for.

I don't see a need to go near Sw/Sh either right now so no I haven't bought them. I'm actually finishing Sun/Moon and enjoying them as comfort food if nothing else.
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,623
Australia
Jeez. Just when I thought that this series couldn't get any worse, that Sword and Shield had to be the lowpoint, TPCI dumps this on us.

Let's go over this:
  • Remember when everyone said we were overreacting when we thought that Home would go for $10 a year? Turns out we were too optimistic. It's $16 a year. For 1 MB of storage. This is going to be more than the price of a full game every Pokemon generation. Think about it. You can get Celeste, the greatest platformer of all time, for $20. You can get Hollow Knight for $15.
  • After the DLC releases, there will be around ~250 Pokemon still not in Sword and Shield. The free version of Home can only carry 30 Pokemon. Hence, you can't transfer your living dex from Bank, then cancel your Premium subscription. You have to stay subscribed to Home until a game comes out that does have the Pokemon you want to transfer.
  • Let's say that out of the ~15 million who will end up purchasing Sword and Shield, 1 million of that population buys Pokemon Home. That's $16 million of revenue per year. Yes, there are server costs to pay, but given how 6000 Pokemon sums up to around 1.5 MB of data (1.5 TB for 1 million users. Storing this data literally costs around $750 per year with Azure), I highly doubt that the servers will cost hundreds of thousands, much less millions of dollars per year to maintain. So we're dealing with $16 million per year, at what is likely a 99+% profit margin. Keep in mind that this extra profit is most likely going to Ishihara's and the other TPCI executives' seven-figure bonuses, rather than being reinvested to make the next games good (Justice League, anyone?).
  • The GTS returns! Finally! And why is it so cumbersome to use? Why do we have to transfer our Pokemon to home, open up a mobile app, trade a Pokemon with the GTS (which thanks to how cumbersome the GTS is, will have far less people on it, which means that getting a trade will be much more difficult), open up the Switch app, and transfer your new Pokemon back to Sword and Shield when we could have just updated Sword and Shield to have a GTS? A method, which, by the way, worked in the past four generations.
  • Why is the Judge exclusive to the paid version, when we can simply check our Pokemon's IVs for free in Sword and Shield?
Honestly, if they're going to charge that much to transfer our Pokemon, then I might as well use PKHeX to hack my old Pokemon in the newer games.
The mainline games WILL have MTX by the end of the decade, I guarantee it
Add me to the "Pokémon will have MTX by the end of Gen 10" bet
Man, you guys are optimistic. On this trajectory, I wouldn't be surprised to see lootboxes in Pokemon by the end of Gen 10.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,408
I mean there are multiple potential reasons

1. Remove it from being locked behind NSO
2. Make it so it's used in a place that has all 890 Pokémon rather than 435 of them
This is such a strange way of defending this decision. There are multiple free to play games on Switch. No one forced GF to use NSO for GTS.

And no one forced GF to only include such a small amount of Pokémon

My brothers kids don't have a phone, they are locked out from using GTS
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
This is such a strange way of defending this decision. There are multiple free to play games on Switch. No one forced GF to use NSO for GTS.

My brothers kids don't have a phone, they are locked out from using GTS
On the PS4 all games use PS+ unless they are certain f2p games or an MMO like FFXIV and the same is probably true with NSO.
 
Last edited:

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,808
Let's say that out of the ~15 million who will end up purchasing Sword and Shield, 1 million of that population buys Pokemon Home. That's $16 million of revenue per year. Yes, there are server costs to pay, but given how 6000 Pokemon sums up to around 1.5 MB of data (1.5 TB for 1 million users. Storing this data literally costs around $750 per year with Azure), I highly doubt that the servers will cost hundreds of thousands, much less millions of dollars per year to maintain. So we're dealing with $16 million per year, at what is likely a 99+% profit margin. Keep in mind that this extra profit is most likely going to Ishihara's and the other TPCI executives' seven-figure bonuses, rather than being reinvested to make the next games good (Justice League, anyone?).
I wish people would stop making assumptions about the actual running costs of these applications. I work for a small tech company, we don't have even 1% of the amount of traffic and storage that Home will require, and we pay upwards of $300/month for an AWS instance. They're not investing $750/year on this, this is a joke.
 

Lunchbox

ƃuoɹʍ ʇᴉ ƃuᴉop ǝɹ,noʎ 'ʇɥƃᴉɹ sᴉɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟI
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,548
Rip City
I mean there are multiple potential reasons

1. Remove it from being locked behind NSO
2. Make it so it's used in a place that has all 890 Pokémon rather than 435 of them
But everything else in the game is locked behind NSO? So that doesn't make sense. Battling & trading.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,126
And no one forced GF to only include such a small amount of Pokémon
Developmental factors could have forced it. We don't know. People assume. People think they just did it because they could.

But everything else in the game is locked behind NSO? So that doesn't make sense. Battling & trading.
Yes, and that could be part of why it has been shifted out of the game?
I wish people would stop making assumptions about the actual running costs of these applications. I work for a small tech company, we don't have even 1% of the amount of traffic and storage that Home will require, and we pay upwards of $300/month for an AWS instance. They're not investing $750/year on this, this is a joke.
Serebii is a very basic site in the frontend but has a lot of visitors. It costs me a crapload to maintain the servers. That's just data transfer.

I am getting a bit irked by people claiming server costs are just storage, especially when HOME has a lot more than just storing it. Not to mention developing the system.

It's the epitome of people acting like they're knowledgable about a subject when they have no experience.
 

Oswen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
806
I wonder if the Switch version doesn't have trade capabilities because that would be an incentive for people to trade outside the respective games and bypass NSO.
A shame that no version of the app will have all the functionalities, makes everything more cumbersome.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I wonder if the Switch version doesn't have trada capabilities because that would incentive people to trade outside the respective games and bypass NSO.
A shame that no version of the app will have all the functionalities, makes everything more cumbersome.
It doesn't have it because it incentives people to use the app, where they can better push them to get the paid plan. If you can do everything on the system you can largely ignore the app for a number of uses cases. This way they have people in there, which gets them curious, and increases the likelihood of them getting a sub
 

Deleted member 24021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,772
Developmental factors could have forced it. We don't know. People assume. People think they just did it because they could.

Or they saw it as an opportunity to nickel and dime the fan base even more by making Pokémon Home look more enticing by adding the GTS.

"But it's free!"

The free version is worse compared to the "premium" version and it's pointless since the 30 free slots will be trade fodder anyway. It's stupid that it's only available on the mobile app of Pokémon Home.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
It doesn't have it because it incentives people to use the app, where they can better push them to get the paid plan. If you can do everything on the system you can largely ignore the app for a number of uses cases. This way they have people in there, which gets them curious, and increases the likelihood of them getting a sub
I don't really see how the mobile version would make people more likely to sub than the Switch version. Right now I would say the Switch version would be the one more likely to push subs because of the transferring and If they had the same features it would probably be equal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Free or premium, this new implementation of GTS fucking blows. There's no arguing around it, imo. It is without a doubt worse than the previous system. It's such a shame to have to jump through hoops just to use a basic function from 2007...
 

Scarlet Spider

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,753
Brooklyn, NY
Developmental factors could have forced it. We don't know. People assume. People think they just did it because they could.
They have stated that they wanted Pokemon to fit the theme of the region in one interview. Then they said they couldn't maintain such a large amount due to balance, wanting to focus on higher fidelity animations, etc with no plans of adding back Pokemon. But now under a different director, they're tossing in 400 Pokemon, most from what we see are Ubers, along with Pokemon that clearly don't fit the theme of the region of Galar. Seems like to me it's Masuda and Ohmori that didn't want a lot of Pokemon to transferable/catchable.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
Yes? When I could simply do it in the game for years? How is this hard to understand? You really don't have to defend every little thing GF does you know. This is inexcusable.

I'm just pointing how ridiculous it sounds

"but I have to reach my phone for...!"

Oh, come on, we reach our phone while playing for multiple things. This is just ridiculous.

I guess that since its free, something for complaining must be found.

Also you don't even know my exact position about Home in general, stop assuming without knowledge
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
So reaching your pocket, bag, table or whatever is too much work for you?

Let's say I'm trying to fill out the Sword dex with the Shield exclusives using the GTS. I have to open up Home mobile to check which Pokemon are being requested, go back to my Switch Sword game to send the requested Pokemon to Home Switch, open Home mobile to do the trade, go back to Home Switch to send my new Pokemon to Switch Sword and then finally boot up Switch Sword to have my new Pokemon in the game.

Yeah... that sounds like too much work for me.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
I'm just pointing how ridiculous it sounds

"but I have to reach my phone for...!"

Oh, come on, we reach our phone while playing for multiple things. This is just ridiculous.

I guess that since its free, something for complaining must be found.

No you're not. You're defending the removal of a basic feature that has been in the games since 2007. But I get it, it's "free" so people shouldn't complain, just consume.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,453
I'm just pointing how ridiculous it sounds

"but I have to reach my phone for...!"

Oh, come on, we reach our phone while playing for multiple things. This is just ridiculous.

I guess that since its free, something for complaining must be found.

Also you don't even know my exact position about Home in general, stop assuming without knowledge
Just Stop. This is the same lame excuse people used for the Nintendo Online App
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,613
Serebii is a very basic site in the frontend but has a lot of visitors. It costs me a crapload to maintain the servers. That's just data transfer.

I am getting a bit irked by people claiming server costs are just storage, especially when HOME has a lot more than just storing it. Not to mention developing the system.

It's the epitome of people acting like they're knowledgable about a subject when they have no experience.
I wish people would stop making assumptions about the actual running costs of these applications. I work for a small tech company, we don't have even 1% of the amount of traffic and storage that Home will require, and we pay upwards of $300/month for an AWS instance. They're not investing $750/year on this, this is a joke.
Dropbox is free for single users, with 2GB of storage each. Nothing announced in Home is specifically different from Dropbox's share/move files features. Dropbox has something like 500+ million active users.

The amount of money they are charging for this is insane.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,408
It's not an excuse, it's my mentality. I just don't care. Am I in the wrong? I don't think so, and I'll defend my opinion to death



Those kids would need/use their parents phone to begin with.

I have a niece and a nephew without phone. They use ours. Problem solved

I think with this kind of reasoning you can defend every decision the pokémon company makes.

My brother has his own switch, Pokémon games and it would be a hassle to share his account. His girlfriend is extremely strict and is not going to lend her phone
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I think the complaints are the natural result of the series aging.

I remember when I forced my parents to drive 5 hours to Toronto so I could get 10th anniversary gift Mythical Pokemon. That was stupid. But I was a kid and I was a lot more forgiving towards Game Freak's stupidity than I am now.

Pokémon's fanbase is so diverse in age, but they tend to make their decisions with children and teenagers in mind, who are a lot more forgiving than the series' 30 year old fans.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,297
User Banned (1 day): Drive-by trolling
Look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Games are allowed to have asynchronous online features not locked behind PS+.
I'm curious as to whether GTS would be considered an asynchronous feature assuming NSO allows that for free as well.

Dropbox is free for single users, with 2GB of storage each. Nothing announced in Home is specifically different from Dropbox's share/move files features. Dropbox has something like 500+ million active users.

The amount of money they are charging for this is insane.
Dropbox uses the same model as Home and I don't think they've done the best financially, so that's kinda a weird example lol.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,128
Peru
This is such a strange way of defending this decision. There are multiple free to play games on Switch. No one forced GF to use NSO for GTS.

And no one forced GF to only include such a small amount of Pokémon

My brothers kids don't have a phone, they are locked out from using GTS
Right?
I'm sure they could've gotten the GTS whitelisted so that it wouldn't require NSO in-game (Nintendo's online infrastructure can't be that terrible, right?). Also, the GTS could be implemented both in-game and in the app with some tweaks to handle the cut Pokémon in SwSh, of course.
It's like... I read all and absolutely all of these excuses and defenses and see people who, instead of asking for a better product that'd benefit everyone, would much rather stand behind a company's bad decisions and create a defensive narrative based purely on conjecture. You're paying actual money for these products, ask for something better for yourself at least.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,453
I'm curious as to whether GTS would be considered an asynchronous feature assuming NSO allows that for free as well.


Dropbox uses the same model as Home and I don't think they've done the best financially, so that's kinda a weird example lol.
GTS is asynchronous. Whether Gamefreak would set it up to not be behind NO is another question. They allow mystery gifts and wild news to be recieved without a sub. So it's an option.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,128
Peru
I'm just pointing how ridiculous it sounds

"but I have to reach my phone for...!"

Oh, come on, we reach our phone while playing for multiple things. This is just ridiculous.

I guess that since its free, something for complaining must be found.

Also you don't even know my exact position about Home in general, stop assuming without knowledge
Oh my god wow, this is exactly what I meant with my previous post. Instead of preferring a better solution that'd improve everyone's experiences, some just choose to stand behind every decision whether good or bad and there's no point arguing anymore when people reach that point.
GTS is asynchronous. Whether Gamefreak would set it up to not be behind NO is another question. They allow mystery gifts and wild news to be recieved without a sub. So it's an option.
And there it is, there's no excuse then but it was completely expected.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,126
Dropbox is free for single users, with 2GB of storage each. Nothing announced in Home is specifically different from Dropbox's share/move files features. Dropbox has something like 500+ million active users.

The amount of money they are charging for this is insane.
I mean there's different functionality than just storage that cost.

Also, nothing is for free. Typically free services like that have a clause allowing them to sell your data to advertisers.

Or they saw it as an opportunity to nickel and dime the fan base even more by making Pokémon Home look more enticing by adding the GTS.

"But it's free!"

The free version is worse compared to the "premium" version and it's pointless since the 30 free slots will be trade fodder anyway. It's stupid that it's only available on the mobile app of Pokémon Home.
Well I see you're twisting the facts to suit a narrative.

"Yeah they're giving us this free thing to charge us more money". It's the same ridiculous narrative from those people claiming they're paywalling the older Pokémon through the DLC when they're available in a free content update
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,808
Dropbox is free for single users, with 2GB of storage each. Nothing announced in Home is specifically different from Dropbox's share/move files features. Dropbox has something like 500+ million active users.

The amount of money they are charging for this is insane.
It's really easy to just claim stuff based on vague similarities, isn't it? What is your argument to make such claim? That both store and transfer data? There is always a lot more to a web service than just what we perceive.
Also, Dropbox's service isn't truly free. You're paying with your data.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
And how slowly(and poorly) they're adapting.

I don't think they're slowly or poorly adapting. I don't think they're adapting at all. Which is working well for them, but managing a community of three generations is tough, and they're going to have a rocky road as millennials become middle aged and grumpy as fuck. See the Star Wars fanbase for Pokémon's future.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
If the servers cost $750 a year(or much less based on the argument) whoever is selling that needs to rethink the deal lol.

I don't think they're slowly or poorly adapting. I don't think they're adapting at all. Which is working well for them, but managing a community of three generations is tough, and they're going to have a rocky road as millennials become middle aged and grumpy as fuck. See the Star Wars fanbase for Pokémon's future.
I think it's more that things some people see as things that need to change aren't issues to them in addition to some other business stuff we don't have actual info on.

The original fans getting older is definitely a thing though where there are people out there complaining about the series still being for kids and people getting mad at the anime for stuff like not aging up Ash so they can better relate to him.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,613
Dropbox uses the same model as Home and I don't think they've done the best financially, so that's kinda a weird example lol.
Their stock is actually struggling because, like Steve Jobs famously said of Dropbox, data storage and sharing is a feature that you include in your base product, not a product you sell separately.

I mean there's different functionality than just storage that cost.

Also, nothing is for free. Typically free services like that have a clause allowing them to sell your data to advertisers.
Sure, and Dropbox still manages to provide all those same functionalities free of charge for most of their users. And they don't even have the financial backing of the World's Biggest Media Franchise to subsidize the endeavor

It's really easy to just claim stuff based on vague similarities, isn't it? What is your argument to make such claim? That both store and transfer data? There is always a lot more to a web service than just what we perceive.
Also, Dropbox's service isn't truly free. You're paying with your data.
It's not "vague similarities." It's the same literal functionality as Dropbox--upload "files" (Pokemon) to a cloud server, store them, "share" (trade) with others. Except, not as good, because Dropbox syncs with the cloud version automatically and doesn't require you to manually upload a file from your PC to the cloud then go to the app on your phone to share the file with someone else, then go back to your PC to manually download the file to use.

Anyway, anything more complicated than storing data (the GTS or other trading features) were free in the last four generations of Pokemon games, that all cost $20 less than this generation of Pokemon.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,808
It's not "vague similarities." It's the same literal functionality as Dropbox--upload "files" (Pokemon) to a cloud server, store them, "share" (trade) with others. Except, not as good, because Dropbox syncs with the cloud version automatically and doesn't require you to manually upload a file from your PC to the cloud then go to the app on your phone to share the file with someone else, then go back to your PC to manually download the file to use.
Nothing is as simple as you think it is. Just because the outcome of "sharing" on Dropbox kind of sounds like a trade in a Pokémon game or app (it really doesn't, but whatever) it doesn't mean that the back-end work being done is similar at all. What you see on the screen is a very small part of what's actually happening on the server.
Anyway, anything more complicated that storing data (the GTS or other trading features) were free in the last four generations of Pokemon games, that all cost $20 less than this generation of Pokemon.
They're still free.

Sure, and Dropbox still manages to provide all those same functionalities free of charge for most of their users. And they don't even have the financial backing of the World's Biggest Media Franchise to subsidize the endeavor
They chose not to directly charge you because in their TOS you agree that they can sell your data. They're still making money, you're just paying for it in a different way.