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NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,377
The continuity of Pokemon likely played a big role in the very stable sales of the series starting from the GBA games. I could see that falling apart now even if it won't be all at once.

Not to mention future Pokemon Cinema projects.

Detective Pikachu didn't do that well for its budget, so future projects aren't really guaranteed yet.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,663
Costa Rica
The biggest part of Pokemon right now is Pokemon Go though.

Which will not be cutting any Pokemon I imagine.

Not to mention future Pokemon Cinema projects.

Just because a Pokemon isn't in Sword and Shield isn't going to kill the marketing potential.

I don't think it's that crazy to think Sword and Shield lacking certain Pokemon won't be a big of a deal as it would have in the past for casual fans as there's an alternative in Pokemon Go.

That just makes this game even more irrelevant next to Go in the eyes of casuals.

"My free phone game has more Pokémon"
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,126
It really is impressive how you always finds ways to defend game freak. Who cares that for the fans, Pokemon and catching as many as you can go hand in hand, right?
Explanation
is
not
Defending

Jesus christ how many times to I have to explain this (granted me explaining this is a defense of me, but don't poke holes :P )
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,297
this. why does it matter that he "is not happy about it".

You're not happy about what, about the fact you didn't prepare in advance (by expanding or whatever was necessary) to prevent this from happening?

Pretty much, and the fact this was planned for sun and moon makes it pretty clear they could've better prepared for the switch games, but they didn't. This is a complete deliberate decision, and was taken years ago.

So that sad Masuda crap is bullshit.
 
Feb 26, 2019
4,276
Tijuana
Looking at it from another perspective, I can see this being Game Freak's opportunity to jettison a lot of messy legacy.

Look at it this way. Aside from the Pokémon themselves, every mainline Pokémon game needs to provide:
  • Rain/fog to evolve Sliggo
  • Moss Rock to evolve Leafeon
  • Ice Rock to evolve Glaceon
  • Magnetic field to evolve Magnezone, Probopass and Vikavolt
  • Icy mountain to evolve Crabominable
  • Gyro check to evolve Malamar
  • Deep-Sea Scale to evolve Gorebyss
  • Deep-Sea Tooth to evolve Huntail
  • Dragon Scale to evolve Kingdra
  • Up-Grade to evolve Porygon2
  • Dubious Disc to evolve Porygon-Z
  • Electirizer to evolve Electivire
  • King's Rock to evolve Slowking/Politoed
  • Magmarizer to evolve Magmortar
  • Metal Coat to evolve Steelix/Scizor
  • Oval Stone to evolve Chansey (from Happiny)
  • Prism Scale to evolve Milotic
  • Protector to evolve Rhyperior
  • Razor Claw to evolve Weavile
  • Razor Fang to evolve Gliscor
  • Reaper Cloth to evolve Dusknoir
  • Sachet to evolve Aromatisse
  • Whipped Dream to evolve Slurpuff
  • 47 Mega Stones to use Mega Evolution
  • 18 type-specific Z-Crystals
  • 17 Pokémon-specific Z-Crystals
  • Gracidea to form change Shaymin
  • Red Orb to form change Groudon
  • Blue Orb to form change Kyogre
  • Griseous Orb to form change Giratina
  • 17 Plates to type-change Arceus
  • DNA Splicers to fuse Kyurem with Zekrom/Reshiram
  • Reveal Glass to form change Tornadus, Thundurus and Landorus
  • 4 Drives to type-change Genesect's Techno Blast
  • Prison Bottle to form change Hoopa
  • 4 Nectars to form change Oricorio
  • 17 Memories to type-change Silvally
  • N-Solarizer to fuse Necrozma and Solgaleo
  • N-Lunarizer to fuse Necrozma and Lunala
  • Pokémon Go connectivity to evolve Melmetal
I'm probably still missing some, but that's a full 151(!) items plus 6 in-game conditions.
All of these items/conditions have to be provided in-game, usually through NPCs. It's actually insane how much cruft they created for themselves by introducing all of these quirky evolution methods.
Somehow they miraculously managed to provide all of these in Sun/Moon, but it was very painfully obvious that a lot of NPCs literally only existed just to give you this one item. It came off as very forced.

...having said all that, I'm still not happy with the decision to remove my ability to take out my Pokémon and use them when I choose to. The worst part is that Pokémon Home is only forwards-compatible, so all of the Pokémon I send there are essentially in indefinite cold storage (which I have to pay for).

So, my unpopular opinion is that I support Game Freak's decision to shave off the cruft and make the games they want to make, but they still need to acknowledge the legacy they've created for themselves.

Here's an idea for free, Game Freak:
Make a Pokémon game (or even put this into Home's Switch version) that is purely functional for training, breeding, trading and battling all 800+ Pokémon. No need for a world, a story or even updated models (you can upres the Sun/Moon ones).
You could have a small simulator room to recreate evolution conditions and a vending machine to provide the evolution/form change items. It doesn't need to be more complex than that.

That way the competitive scene could still be active, GF can balance their games based on a limited scope for each one, and I wouldn't feel like my Pokémon were rotting away in storage.

Most of them are just items though. Put them in the routes. Give them at lottery. Make a store just for them to be purchased at a reasonable price (the ones that aren't key items). Seems like a lot but most of them are just the same mechanic with a different item. It's not like they're making 3D models for every item or a fancy animation for each of them.

Or don't make them available and force us to transfer them from Pokémon Home / GTS. HG/SS didn't have all the Sinnoh evolution methods, and no one had a problem bringing those evolved forms from DPPt
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Most of them are just items though. Put them in the routes. Give them at lottery. Make a store just for them to be purchased at a reasonable price (the ones that aren't key items). Seems like a lot but most of them are just the same mechanic with a different item. It's not like they're making 3D models for every item or a fancy animation for each of them.

Or don't make them available and force us to transfer them from Pokémon Home / GTS. HG/SS didn't have all the Sinnoh evolution methods, and no one had a problem bringing those evolved forms from DPPt

As a shortcut to get pokemon into Sword and Shield sure

But long term I would very much like to see this game overhauled man
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,297
Explanation
is
not
Defending

Jesus christ how many times to I have to explain this (granted me explaining this is a defense of me, but don't poke holes :P )

This is possibly the biggest shit the fandom has recieved ever, and you somehow keep finding ways to explain GF's points (lmao).

Come on man, you're not their spokesman. You're buying too much their stuff. They have people to do PR and make sense of their stuff, but you aren't.

You're part of the fandom and you know there's nothing positive about this in the end.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,663
Costa Rica
I can't believe we reached the "Japanese expert" argument to defend Gamefreak ignoring the slogan they're known for in every part of the planet not named japan
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
eqL4JKI.jpg
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
Explanation
is
not
Defending

Jesus christ how many times to I have to explain this (granted me explaining this is a defense of me, but don't poke holes :P )

You really love to say this, huh?
"I'm just stating facts (from a questionable perspective that happens to favor GF)."
"I'm just explaining things (that happen to put GF in a less bad light)."

You're defending them and as long as your arguments are good that would be perfectly fine anyway. Stop with these laughable semantics.
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
Almost 90 pages, I knew the fanbase would be vocal about this, but I'm shocked to see how many waves this thing made.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,483
I've said it a few times, and I'll say it again. Porting/developing new models (and we're pretty sure they're not new) should be one of the most parallelizable tasks possible. One of the most braindead, just throw more people at it type of problem. The tooling and processes should exist for this. After 20 years of doing these games. I personally don't care if a few hundred forgettable (to me) Pokemon are dropped, but I know that there are large portions of the fans that feel otherwise. The whole point of cultivating this illusion of friendship and ownership is lost the moment your favorite isn't on that list.

What puts it over the top for me is that the reasons being given really are quite insulting. The meta has never been balanced and never will be. You could bring the greatest designers in the world into one room and they wouldn't be able to balance 100 Pokemon, let alone 200, 400, or whatever amount is actually included. The animation excuse is really just assuming we're all blind. There's a way where maybe, maybe you could have let the fans down easy, but instead, you made it an off-the-cuff statement and you were too careless to even come up with a good lie.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
You know, Nintendo may only have 33% shares in TPC, but they also are the actual owners of the trademark, so even without full ownership, should they feel the need, they can throw a LOT of weight around if they wanted to influence development.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,248
Rochester, New York
I think they tackled this game all wrong from a conceptual state

They should have started with "we have a big workload bringing all these Pokemon over, what new features can we include with that in mind" vs "we have these new features in mind, what do we do about the workload to bring all these Pokemon over"
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I saw James Turner liked one of the tweets with 900 angry comments lol. I wonder if he actually clicked on it.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Oct 26, 2017
397
User Banned (1 Day): Personal attacks against another member
Ya'll are gonna chase Joe off this site and that'd be bad. I like having him here.
Maybe that way, people will be able to discuss Pokemon, without Joe having to come up with a way to adress anything anyone dares to say about gamefeak, here we have him kinda saying "technically in Japan Pokemon is not about trying to catch as many Pokemon as posible"
 
Regardless of the veracity of that reddit post, people have been suggesting for a while that Nintendo has one of it's other teams help transition Pokemon to HD. Zelda is a flagship franchise and even it needed Monolithsoft's help in pulling off BotW. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that Gamefreak's indie style approach to developing the games is becoming unsustainable.
 

Ravager777

Member
Jan 1, 2018
877
Seems weird if I can transfer old Pokémon to Pokémon Home and not being able to transfer them further from there. Would they be stuck in limbo for all eternity?
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Maybe that way, people will be able to discuss Pokemon, without Joe having to come up with a way to adress anything anyone dares to say about gamefeak, here we have him kinda saying "technically in Japan Pokemon is not about trying to catch as many Pokemon as posible"

Can we not turn this into a personal attack thread. I don't want it to get locked because it's very important news.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,690
some of ya'll are taking this way too personal lol, actually thinking about chasing off Joe? Really?
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
they have an entire sub series that was well received where they can experiment with things like this. why announce something as for the core fans when you basically destroy the competitive scene I don't get it
 

rustyphish

Member
May 13, 2019
611
Maybe that way, people will be able to discuss Pokemon, without Joe having to come up with a way to adress anything anyone dares to say about gamefeak, here we have him kinda saying "technically in Japan Pokemon is not about trying to catch as many Pokemon as posible"

Please don't attack anyone personally, let's not turn this into that
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
Joe literally only took issue with fixating on a western slogan. He didn't defend any of Game Freak's practices there.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,248
Rochester, New York
they have an entire sub series that was well received where they can experiment with things like this. why announce something as for the core fans when you basically destroy the competitive scene I don't get it
I actually think the comp scene is the least of it. Those guys are always used to dealing with smaller Pokemon lists, since official rulesets set limits all the time
 

meepfx

Member
Dec 20, 2017
154
Maybe that way, people will be able to discuss Pokemon, without Joe having to come up with a way to adress anything anyone dares to say about gamefeak, here we have him kinda saying "technically in Japan Pokemon is not about trying to catch as many Pokemon as posible"

Well I'm glad you're here to shit on him and save us. On a related note, can you stop doing that?
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,705
Maybe that way, people will be able to discuss Pokemon, without Joe having to come up with a way to adress anything anyone dares to say about gamefeak, here we have him kinda saying "technically in Japan Pokemon is not about trying to catch as many Pokemon as posible"

Thankfully, if you don't like someone you can put them on ignore without encouraging people to make someone uncomfortable.
 

Arynio

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,235
What it really kills are breeders. I am a breeder. I have spent thousands of hours picking Pokémon I like with unique movesets or shinies. I breed them, then train them to competitive standards, and sort them in to my huge collection. This is my favorite part of the series. Often I will browse for a new Pokémon to breed just based on how interesting its moveset is regardless of whether or not it's good.

Strength Sap Vilplume. Belly Drum Slurpuff. Infestation Weezing. Guts+Facade Ursaring. Quiver Dance Venomoth. Full-coverage Silvally. I love these Pokémon because they are fun to battle with and have really unique implementations. These are the Pokémon I connect most with, and spend the most time using, and always really look forward to using. These are my Pokémon and why I play the series.

I am all for gating the campaign and limiting the Pokémon you are intended to use during that experience. I actually strongly favor this. I often think there are too many Pokémon in the base game, and too many familiar faces, and having to work with what's available to you is rarely required. I'd say 250 Pokémon in any regional Dex is a sweetspot I'd prefer. If Pokémon is meant to be a proper RPG with a difficulty curve and a challenge there needs to be carefully curated availability and creatures only intended to appear or be available at specific points. So I am all for saying that you can't just use anything you want until you finish the story.

But afterward?

If I can't breed and play with the Pokémon that uniquely interest me at that point I have no reason to keep playing. It also hugely undervalues all the work I've done over the last decade. It's just awful for me.

I couldn't have expressed this better myself. It's exactly the same for me, and for many others. But really, this is shitty for everyone, be it traders, collectors, etc.
 
they have an entire sub series that was well received where they can experiment with things like this. why announce something as for the core fans when you basically destroy the competitive scene I don't get it
I think that is playing a huge role in the backlash here. All the core fans who were mad about LGPE's direction last year were told that Gen 8 would be a return to form in 2019. To see that exclusion of Pokemon from the coding is something that will persist caused a lot of people who were holding their tongue to feel crossed.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Joe literally only took issue with fixating on a western slogan. He didn't defend any of Game Freak's practices there.
he was doing that earlier tho. there was a long thing about how we'll all be ashamed of our words and deeds when we see the stunning Pokémon camp animations.

I think that is playing a huge role in the backlash here. All the core fans who were mad about LGPE's direction last year were told that Gen 8 would be a return to form in 2019. To see that exclusion of Pokemon from the coding is something that will persist caused a lot of people who were holding their tongue to feel crossed.
Megas too, they've been huge for a while. Some favorites are now guaranteed to not be viable if they even show.
 
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