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Feb 26, 2019
4,273
Tijuana
For some reason, I can't help but wonder if a Gen 4 remake was real, they would restrict it to Sinnoh dex only.
You know they would. They wouldn't even include the Gen1-3 Pokemon that weren't in that dex.
And it will be the DP dex too, not Platinum.
No new additions either.

And forget about Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus because they actually don't appear in the regional Sinnoh Pokédex, not even in Platinum
hiEE.gif
 

KimiNewt

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
It's just bizarre because it's such a major feature of the series and it doesn't appear to require THAT much effort (with the models and movesets for everyone being mostly ready).

That said, I would be fine if they gradually added more Pokemon over the course of, say, six months (for free). It would also create some community engagement.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,679
Some people justify them by saying how could we even dream about them doing more than 800 in one single game, and the inevitable increase with every generation, and yeah, it must be unprecedented in the videogames industry; I actually ignore if there is any other videogame that handles so many characters at once. But it doesn't matter if it hasn't been done before. Pokémon, being the highest-grossing media franchise ever, should be more than capable of achieving this feat and becoming the first one to do so, if not the only one, because they might be lacking in time, but they sure as hell aren't lacking in money.

I seriously doubt this is a matter of the Switch capabilities. They seem to have deliberately taken this decision as the new approach for the franchise and it's a shame they didn't dare to take the challenge.
could they have delayed it a year or 2 sure, but when was the last year there wasnt a pokemon wasnt released? also, I would rather this, than wait another year for switch's first core pokemon game.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,000
The reality is that virtually all the upset people here (myself included) will buy the games regardless, and will probably also buy a separate game, service or DLC to let us use all of the Pokémon. They have zero reason not to do it. It can cover the cost of reanimating Pokemon if necessary, tweak up the move pools and give them additional development time.
I'm sorry but no if things don't change I won't be buying the game at all.
 

SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
If this was apart of a larger plan to try and stop hacking I would understand. Hell I would understand if they wanted a limited rooster for competitive as long as they let us still bring the other pokemon across for non comp gameplay. But at present with the information we have, this seems like a terrible decision that rips out a core feature of the games. I do wonder if a new studio is needed as GameFreak can't seem to upscale for the post game boy / DS age. I kinda wish Nintendo would buy out their share in the franchise.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Would be crazy if they release some as paid dlc. To be fair, they do have a ton of models to render. I serious wonder if they will release Pokemon games every year like the pure handheld games. It's a whole different ball game on a 3d HD console with more Pokemon and a larger world.
Pokemon doesn't do paid DLC.

You should probably read what you post. The comments outright mention a year timeframe and other guys say they didn't lose their Pokemon after long breaks.
 

DonMigs85

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,770
Would be crazy if they release some as paid dlc. To be fair, they do have a ton of models to render. I serious wonder if they will release Pokemon games every year like the pure handheld games. It's a whole different ball game on a 3d HD console with more Pokemon and a larger world.
The 3DS models actually look very good for the most part, just throw some new textures or shaders on them
 

DongBeetle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,017
yeah I ain't gonna hold my breath on that one

I'm fully ready to here there's like 70 new Pokémon still.

Also, it's really weird to think 400 Pokémon is acceptable when we passed that mark 4 generations ago. "All of a sudden we can't do more than that" feels like a stretch when we literally just did double that. It would be one thing it's like 750 with 150 new species and 600 classics and they basically said "this was our limit".
It's clear why they're doing this and anyone who denies it is fooling themselves
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
Sounds like reaching, especially since they said this is the new direction for the series.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. I can't imagine this decision being made with absolute glee at Game Freak or even that much indifference.

You can't deny that fully remaking 3D models, each one with their own expressions and movements, for a franchise with over 800 Pokemon now, is a lot of work. And it's not just the 3D Models either. It's the movesets, the abilities, the various different mechanics some Pokemon have over others, that all needs to be taken into account as well. Many of those need to be changed to include the new moves and abilities introduced in this Gen. That's also not including running animations for Pokemon that can be found in the Wild Area for some of them.

I don't think this is a result of Game Freak, TPC, or even Nintendo being dumb and not understanding what the fans want. Even they wouldn't be that stupid to think that this wouldn't get an overwhelmingly negative reaction. This is most likely a result of making sure the game reaches its September release date. I don't think any mainline game in the series has ever gotten a big delay, possibly due to just how big of a brand Pokemon is. So this is what was sacrificed in order to meet that deadline.

As pissed as I am about this, I would not say that this is Game Freak being lazy. The lazy approach would be just to import all the Sun/Moon models into the game and call it a day. Instead Game Freak is reworking each one included in the games to make better use of the game's engine.

I do believe we will see the rest of the Pokemon included in the Galar Region eventually. If not, they'll show up with the others in the next Gen 9 games for sure. Scummy? Perhaps. But also basically no different from what Game Freak's been doing with Pokemon since the beginning. Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon etc. They always "replaced" the original two and became the definitive versions.

All in all, I'm still going to buy this game and I'm probably still going to enjoy it. This is a serious strike against it, but not a deal-breaker.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,000
I wouldn't agree with that at all. I can't imagine this decision being made with absolute glee at Game Freak or even that much indifference.

You can't deny that fully remaking 3D models, each one with their own expressions and movements, for a franchise with over 800 Pokemon now, is a lot of work. And it's not just the 3D Models either. It's the movesets, the abilities, the various different mechanics some Pokemon have over others, that all needs to be taken into account as well. Many of those need to be changed to include the new moves and abilities introduced in this Gen. That's also not including running animations for Pokemon that can be found in the Wild Area for some of them.

I don't think this is a result of Game Freak, TPC, or even Nintendo being dumb and not understanding what the fans want. Even they wouldn't be that stupid to think that this wouldn't get an overwhelmingly negative reaction. This is most likely a result of making sure the game reaches its September release date. I don't think any mainline game in the series has ever gotten a big delay, possibly due to just how big of a brand Pokemon is. So this is what was sacrificed in order to meet that deadline.

As pissed as I am about this, I would not say that this is Game Freak being lazy. The lazy approach would be just to import all the Sun/Moon models into the game and call it a day. Instead Game Freak is reworking each one included in the games to make better use of the game's engine.

I do believe we will see the rest of the Pokemon included in the Galar Region eventually. If not, they'll show up with the others in the next Gen 9 games for sure. Scummy? Perhaps. But also basically no different from what Game Freak's been doing with Pokemon since the beginning. Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon etc. They always "replaced" the original two and became the definitive versions.

All in all, I'm still going to buy this game and I'm probably still going to enjoy it. This is a serious strike against it, but not a deal-breaker.
Sure but its on GF to communicate about something like this to their audience otherwise you get what you see here.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
I wouldn't agree with that at all. I can't imagine this decision being made with absolute glee at Game Freak or even that much indifference.

You can't deny that fully remaking 3D models, each one with their own expressions and movements, for a franchise with over 800 Pokemon now, is a lot of work. And it's not just the 3D Models either. It's the movesets, the abilities, the various different mechanics some Pokemon have over others, that all needs to be taken into account as well. Many of those need to be changed to include the new moves and abilities introduced in this Gen. That's also not including running animations for Pokemon that can be found in the Wild Area for some of them.

I don't think this is a result of Game Freak, TPC, or even Nintendo being dumb and not understanding what the fans want. Even they wouldn't be that stupid to think that this wouldn't get an overwhelmingly negative reaction. This is most likely a result of making sure the game reaches its September release date. I don't think any mainline game in the series has ever gotten a big delay, possibly due to just how big of a brand Pokemon is. So this is what was sacrificed in order to meet that deadline.

As pissed as I am about this, I would not say that this is Game Freak being lazy. The lazy approach would be just to import all the Sun/Moon models into the game and call it a day. Instead Game Freak is reworking each one included in the games to make better use of the game's engine.

I do believe we will see the rest of the Pokemon included in the Galar Region eventually. If not, they'll show up with the others in the next Gen 9 games for sure. Scummy? Perhaps. But also basically no different from what Game Freak's been doing with Pokemon since the beginning. Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon etc. They always "replaced" the original two and became the definitive versions.

All in all, I'm still going to buy this game and I'm probably still going to enjoy it. This is a serious strike against it, but not a deal-breaker.
The models, the animations, all of that is already done and has been done for years. It's also not uncommon for old Pokemon to not get updated movesets or abilities in a new gen, and picking what Pokemon get new attacks shouldn't be much of an ordeal anyways.
Not every Pokemon needs to be in the wild area, certainly not Pokemon that aren't in the regional dex, but not only that those run animations are old, they are unused animations from Sun and Moon and they did them for every Gen 1-7 Pokemon.
They have no excuse, they simply don't care.
And even if the issue was workload that is entirely Game Freak's fault for refusing to grow. If they want to do 5+ HD games at once they can not continue to be a 150~200 person studio.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
As pissed as I am about this, I would not say that this is Game Freak being lazy. The lazy approach would be just to import all the Sun/Moon models into the game and call it a day. Instead Game Freak is reworking each one included in the games to make better use of the game's engine.

You know that that's already what's being done, right? Game Freak is using XY's models for this game. (And LGPE too) They aren't really remaking anything. The XY models were made to be future-proof. There may be some light tweaks to some models but the vast majority is the same ol' same ol'. All 800+ of them even got a walking animation. (LGPE uses this)

 
Last edited:

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,968
Night City
User Warned: Lazy dev rhetoric; do not make assumptions like this, it derails the thread and is disrespectful to the developers working on these games
People are acting like animating Pokemon is even that much work, attack animations are lucky to be the Pokemon in their idle animation just hoping up and down on the z-axis. The animations have been lazy for years and that isn't changing anytime soon.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
The models, the animations, all of that is already done and has been done for years. It's also not uncommon for old Pokemon to not get updated movesets or abilities in a new gen, and picking what Pokemon get new attacks shouldn't be much of an ordeal anyways.
Not every Pokemon needs to be in the wild area, certainly not Pokemon that aren't in the regional dex, but not only that those run animations are old, they are unused animations from Sun and Moon and they did them for every Gen 1-7 Pokemon.
They have no excuse, they simply don't care.

And you can't just plop them in the game like that, as I said. This isn't just some slight tweaks to old models, this is them being remade to look the best they can on the Switch hardware.

If they actually didn't care, they WOULD use those models and animations and it would look jarring as fuck.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
And you can't just plop them in the game like that, as I said. This isn't just some slight tweaks to old models, this is them being remade to look the best they can on the Switch hardware.

If they actually didn't care, they WOULD use those models and animations and it would look jarring as fuck.
They aren't being remade, they are the exact same models. The only differences are slightly higher res textures, which already existed in Pokedex 3D Pro, shaders and modified colors. The shaders are pretty universal on all of the Pokemon and tweaking the colors of Pokemon isn't some herculean task. And that still doesn't address the fact that this would be their fault anyways for refusing to grow.
Doesn't matter anyways, Masuda says this is the new direction for the franchise, they no longer intend to have all Pokemon in any given game.
 
Oct 29, 2017
923
Australia
User Banned (1 Day): Trolling and Antagonizing Other Users
Damn, ya'll are really outraged that you can't transfer your Hoothoot over to be put in a box and never touched again.

Personally, I appreciate that Gamefreak is working on a tight release schedule and that game development isn't about snapping your fingers and making everything happen with magic. Didn't believe Pokemon was for kids until I read some of the responses in this thread. Woo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,631
Damn, ya'll are really outraged that you can't transfer your Hoothoot over to be put in a box and never touched again.

Personally, I appreciate that Gamefreak is working on a tight release schedule and that game development isn't about snapping your fingers and making everything happen with magic. Didn't believe Pokemon was for kids until I read some of the responses in this thread. Woo.
"this isnt an issue for ME, so im just gonna shitpost in a thread i have no reason to be in"
 

Sgs2008

Member
Mar 25, 2019
530
Really getting fatigued with all the gen 1 pokemon. Would rather we get more later gen mons with a limited dex. Which is unlikely I know.
 

Voltt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,499
Hold on, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves are also gone? Ugh, it's even worse than I thought.

That should definitely be added to the thread title. I only found out from reading a random post in another thread mentioning it.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
They aren't being remade, they are the exact same models. The only differences are slightly higher res textures, which already existed in Pokedex 3D Pro, shaders and modified colors. The shaders are pretty universal on all of the Pokemon and tweaking the colors of Pokemon isn't some herculean task. And that still doesn't address the fact that this would be their fault anyways for refusing to grow.
Doesn't matter anyways, Masuda says this is the new direction for the franchise, they no longer intend to have all Pokemon in any given game.

New direction doesn't directly translate into "You'll never see all the Pokemon in any given gave ever again".

If the rest aren't going to be patched in, they'll most likely be added in the Sinnoh Remakes or Galar sequel/expansion games.

Hold on, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves are also gone? Ugh, it's even worse than I thought.

That should definitely be added to the thread title. I only found out from reading a random post in another thread mentioning it.

Maybe actually look for that info from an official source and confirm it before actually posting about it?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
New direction doesn't directly translate into "You'll never see all the Pokemon in any given gave ever again".

If the rest aren't going to be patched in, they'll most likely be added in the Sinnoh Remakes or Galar sequel/expansion games.
He said they don't intend to put every Pokemon in every game now, they will just pick the ones they want for each game.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,000
and the $60 pokeball is a controller for ONE game... and a glorified pokewalker for the new one.
I honestly forgot those existed.
Damn, ya'll are really outraged that you can't transfer your Hoothoot over to be put in a box and never touched again.
Personally, I appreciate that Gamefreak is working on a tight release schedule and that game development isn't about snapping your fingers and making everything happen with magic. Didn't believe Pokemon was for kids until I read some of the responses in this thread. Woo.
You realize Hoothoot is someone's favorite Pokémon right?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060

Keyouta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,195
Canada
I saw some people excusing this because there's extra animation work being done in these games. But, I'm still seeing people rotate on the spot, same animations as USUM, and stuff like Scorbunny not having an animation for double kick.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
That's what all the translations I've seen say, they say that he said there are so many Pokemon now that the new direction is that they will pick which Pokemon will be in each game.
Oops, nevermind. Didn't read his tweet right, Joe didn't say that was false, he was talking about another thing.

But if Masuda truly justifies this as the series direction, lol. Then I'm not gonna buy Pokémon anymore.

Really? I could've sworn I heard that too. I'll rewatch the end To make sure so I won't make a fool of myself in future conversations.
Nope, it was my mistake.
 
Feb 26, 2019
4,273
Tijuana
I wouldn't agree with that at all. I can't imagine this decision being made with absolute glee at Game Freak or even that much indifference.

You can't deny that fully remaking 3D models, each one with their own expressions and movements, for a franchise with over 800 Pokemon now, is a lot of work. And it's not just the 3D Models either. It's the movesets, the abilities, the various different mechanics some Pokemon have over others, that all needs to be taken into account as well. Many of those need to be changed to include the new moves and abilities introduced in this Gen. That's also not including running animations for Pokemon that can be found in the Wild Area for some of them.

I don't think this is a result of Game Freak, TPC, or even Nintendo being dumb and not understanding what the fans want. Even they wouldn't be that stupid to think that this wouldn't get an overwhelmingly negative reaction. This is most likely a result of making sure the game reaches its September release date. I don't think any mainline game in the series has ever gotten a big delay, possibly due to just how big of a brand Pokemon is. So this is what was sacrificed in order to meet that deadline.

As pissed as I am about this, I would not say that this is Game Freak being lazy. The lazy approach would be just to import all the Sun/Moon models into the game and call it a day. Instead Game Freak is reworking each one included in the games to make better use of the game's engine.

I do believe we will see the rest of the Pokemon included in the Galar Region eventually. If not, they'll show up with the others in the next Gen 9 games for sure. Scummy? Perhaps. But also basically no different from what Game Freak's been doing with Pokemon since the beginning. Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon etc. They always "replaced" the original two and became the definitive versions.

All in all, I'm still going to buy this game and I'm probably still going to enjoy it. This is a serious strike against it, but not a deal-breaker.

The thing is, who set that deadline in the first place?
idontknowney.gif


Sacrificing your own product to deliver it in time, sounds pretty bad to me. Push the deadline instead. Actually, they wouldn't even have had to push anything if since the beginning they planned it correctly. And of course they planned it correctly because, most likely, since the beginning they took that decision.

And I understand there's more than just the games, but the whole franchise. Well, they could've taken that time to give us a decent anime season after the S&M series, or at least finally give us a movie with the Alolan characters that could perhaps make up for the shift in the series.

They could've perfectly waited another year. If they accomplished the feat of including all the new Pokémon in SwSh that would've worked as a foundation for all the following games within the generation: let's say SwSh sequel or third version, Sinnoh Remakes, and whatever other game they could've pulled, Crystal remake or something. The effort made once would've worked for several games, and even for the future generation which most likely will come for the Switch too.

Plus it's not like they started working on the games yesterday. As we've said in other threads, they've said in the past they start working on the following generation as soon as the latest is released.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
That's what all the translations I've seen say, they say that he said there are so many Pokemon now that the new direction is that they will pick which Pokemon will be in each game.

Which translations would you be looking at? If that was the case I'd be hearing about that a lot more than I would be hearing about this.

He didn't mention anything about future games. He only spoke about this one.

Could you stop with the "He said this and that" and actually provide a source?
 
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