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Absent Breeze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
488
In the past, when I was upset about a feature or a change, I just swallowed it and thought "it's not all about me." But this time, for once, it's about everybody. So everyone's just letting it out.
Yup the flood gates really opened and it's become more the failures of GF over the past 10 years or so.

It is funny, because I said a couple weeks ago I didn't think there would be any one thing to unite the community against the GF because I've seen so many people come out of the wood work and make excuses for them in the past. So many people that I was really thinking I might be the one that was crazy, but it seems like all there were many others that felt the same way who were just shouted down because generally the games are "good enough" despite continual removal of features and content. Now though it seems like a lot more people are receptive now that we have a high profile issue of GF making a pretty baffling decision.

So stuff that the long time GF critics have been upset over for years (how they code the game, the long list of things that have been removed from the series, low fps and performance) are now being laid out for the general audience to see as well, and riling up the community even more.
 

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,925
I actually think the gameplay is in the higher tier of the genre and I appreciate the game design not becoming trash like FF. I also dig the world building and characters. It just needs the post-game challenges to let the player have fun single player wise with it, also difficulty options would be nice.

I just think it needs to build more on underutilized aspects to make it more fulfilling. Theres no need for the gimmick battle mechanics.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
I said it earlier but take away the metagame of transferring your Pokemon from generation to generation and you're left with a pretty mediocre JRPG with cute monsters.
That's a take, I guess.

My reading is that, if you've been a lifelong Pokémon fan, you've been routinely disappointed one way or another by the series. Maybe they removed a feature you really liked, or maybe the series went in a direction you didn't prefer, but chances are even the most faithful fans have been disappointed by decisions Game Freak has made.

But people overlook those disappointments because they love Pokémon. And maybe there are design decisions you don't like or features removed, but it's still Pokémon, and that was always enough to to look beyond the things you didn't like and focus on the things you did. After all, people play Pokémon in so many different ways. Maybe the things that meant a lot to you just weren't popular enough to justify. If you were going to stick with the series, you needed to make peace with the fact you wouldn't always get everything you wanted.

But this change is just so fundamental. It has enormous implications for almost every single kind of player. You can't look past it and say "well, at least it's still Pokémon" because this time the fundamental Pokémon experience, something you took for granted, the thing that always kept you grounded despite the other changes, has been compromised. So no matter what you were disappointed with previously, and however you made peace with that, now almost every type of Pokémon fan is unanimously disappointed at once.

In the past, when I was upset about a feature or a change, I just swallowed it and thought "it's not all about me." But this time, for once, it's about everybody. So everyone's just letting it out.
This seems to be it. It's the old "Every Pokémon is someone's favorite Pokémon", so there was no way this wasn't going to be a severely controversial decision.
 

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
Did I misread, or did the Famitsu interview with Masuda say they were re-modeling every Pokemon? If so, I'm not seeing it. Those are absolutely the X and Y models still. Do they really think we're so stupid that they can just lie to our faces like that?
 

Deleted member 2618

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.
The contrast between Gamefreak's ambition of Pokemon as a game series and TPCI's ambition of it as a franchise is astronomical. TPCI is going nuts with trying to make SLEEP INTO ENTERTAINMENT meanwhile GF is unable to keep basic features of JRPGs, let alone support the pokemon they have created up until now.

To take it even further (while not entirely fair bit still the comparison can be made) is you look at Nintendo's games. All of their flagship franchises, Zelda, Mario, and to an extent Smash, are all blowing past previous heights of their respective series. How has GF not adapted to the standards of the rest of their direct contemporaries?
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
This seems to be it. It's the old "Every Pokémon is someone's favorite Pokémon", so there was no way this wasn't going to be a severely controversial decision.

They're not communicating it that way at all. I would expect that they would say "we know it might be disappointing for some fans but here's 10 reasons why this makes sense". It's kinda "yeah we're no longer doing that". The subtext is "you'll buy the games anyway".
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Sorry, you can't transfer Rotom to Galar because it doesn't like the climate.

Rotom Dex:

crying.jpg
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
From a communications point of view this has been an absolute shitshow. I guess Masuda deserves props for actually letting us know ahead of releasing the games (can you imagine if they didn't...). But reading through their rationale, I can't help but think "how is this my problem?!". Seriously, people spend their hard-earned money on your games and merchandise. A lot of them buy an entire console they wouldn't have bought otherwise just to play pokemon. The argument that this cannot be done from a technical standpoint just doesn't hold up when you see The Witcher 3 releasing on the Switch. I mean come on.

Yeah, it shouldn't be the players' problem. The games now cost $20 more than they did on 3DS and it seems like a very large percentage of players feel like they are getting a lesser experience for that price increase. Unfortunately, I imagine the only way they will change their minds and scramble to fix their limitations or get help from another developer is if Sword and Shield underperform.
 

Ms.Galaxy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,653
Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.

Here's the thing though, they're going to hit more and more walls as time moves on. Better hardware happens, technology evolves, and consumer expectations for more content and graphics grows. There current solution isn't going to help, and so we're going to likely have issues where the Regional Dex becomes smaller and smaller. We'll likely have a Gen V situation one day except you can't get legacy Pokemon in post game and it's not compatible with it. They saw this coming for years, yet they didn't prepare for it. They need a vast expansion, better leadership, and more funding.

Seriously where the fuck is all this money going to? If it's the Pokemon Company itself, they need to give Game Freak a bigger cut of profits to actually expand and make better games. And Nintendo needs to start offering more assistance than fucking Wii Vitality tech.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I just think it needs to build more on underutilized aspects to make it more fulfilling. Theres no need for the gimmick battle mechanics.
I don't have problem with Megas and Z-moves because they feel like logical steps for the series. A "special evolution" and a "special move", they're natural concepts related to core aspects of Pokémon. I agree that focusing the design in the story around them is bad and makes things generally worse, they should be integrated in smart ways, not forced; also balance better who is buffed by unique Megas and Z-moves instead of giving them to already strong Pokémon.

Dynamax is completely non-sensical tho. No one asked for giant Pokémon that are just generic Pokémon but big. It's not natural and they're dropping the better mechanics they had for it. There's nothing cool visually about a big Pokémon in comparison to a new form, nor it's cooler to see them using generic moves over the animations Z-moves had. I have no idea why we got this.
 

Deleted member 1635

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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Did I misread, or did the Famitsu interview with Masuda say they were re-modeling every Pokemon? If so, I'm not seeing it. Those are absolutely the X and Y models still. Do they really think we're so stupid that they can just lie to our faces like that?

It's vague and the comment was from Ohmori, but it does read like "rework the models from the start/ground up." It's not specific enough to know exactly what he means, though.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,644
Costa Rica
My reading is that, if you've been a lifelong Pokémon fan, you've been routinely disappointed one way or another by the series. Maybe they removed a feature you really liked, or maybe the series went in a direction you didn't prefer, but chances are even the most faithful fans have been disappointed by decisions Game Freak has made.

But people overlook those disappointments because they love Pokémon. And maybe there are design decisions you don't like or features removed, but it's still Pokémon, and that was always enough to to look beyond the things you didn't like and focus on the things you did. After all, people play Pokémon in so many different ways. Maybe the things that meant a lot to you just weren't popular enough to justify. If you were going to stick with the series, you needed to make peace with the fact you wouldn't always get everything you wanted.

But this change is just so fundamental. It has enormous implications for almost every single kind of player. You can't look past it and say "well, at least it's still Pokémon" because this time the fundamental Pokémon experience, something you took for granted, the thing that always kept you grounded despite the other changes, has been compromised. So no matter what you were disappointed with previously, and however you made peace with that, now almost every type of Pokémon fan is unanimously disappointed at once.

In the past, when I was upset about a feature or a change, I just swallowed it and thought "it's not all about me." But this time, for once, it's about everybody. So everyone's just letting it out.

Yup this was the last straw.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
Did I misread, or did the Famitsu interview with Masuda say they were re-modeling every Pokemon? If so, I'm not seeing it. Those are absolutely the X and Y models still. Do they really think we're so stupid that they can just lie to our faces like that?
I don't know what goes into developing these games, but when dealing with translated interviews, it's important to consider everything paraphrasing, as something might be lost in translation. It's possible that they're not remodeling every Pokémon, also because that's Creatures Inc.'s job. But it might be a case of each Pokémon using specific shader settings to better represent their design and concept art. So it's no small task to go through each and every one of them, fine-tuning their graphics to what looks best for each. All of this might be getting simplified as "modeling".

They're not communicating it that way at all. I would expect that they would say "we know it might be disappointing for some fans but here's 10 reasons why this makes sense". It's kinda "yeah we're no longer doing that". The subtext is "you'll buy the games anyway".
I mean, they did explain that it wasn't sustainable to keep supporting all Pokémon every game and they knew eventually they wouldn't be able to do it anymore. It looks like it was a case of them prioritizing other features over bringing over all Pokémon. The only thing they're not doing here is showing something to make up for that.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
The contrast between Gamefreak's ambition of Pokemon as a game series and TPCI's ambition of it as a franchise is astronomical. TPCI is going nuts with trying to make SLEEP INTO ENTERTAINMENT meanwhile GF is unable to keep basic features of JRPGs, let alone support the pokemon they have created up until now.

To take it even further (while not entirely fair bit still the comparison can be made) is you look at Nintendo's games. All of their flagship franchises, Zelda, Mario, and to an extent Smash, are all blowing past previous heights of their respective series. How has GF not adapted to the standards of the rest of their direct contemporaries?

It's really hard to say. We all know they are relatively small compared to the success of the games. Maybe it's a situation where the people in charge of the technical side of things are mostly the same group as they were over a decade ago and they just can't keep up with the more powerful hardware.
 

pokéfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
The idea that Gamefreak is creating new animations for this camping mechanic at the expense of half the roster over just reusing the perfectly-serviceable Refresh mechanic is infuriating.
And who the fuck gives a shit about camping, hell even the Pokemon amie, it boosts your Pokemon up in battles and made them invincible, which was the annoying part.
 

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,925
Believe my favorite is Roserade, which happened with Gen 6. I even booted up a copy of Platinum just to get a Budew into Soul Silver last year to have her.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
The English Wilderness
Have they ever released figures for Pokémon Bank? Because if it turns out only a small percentage of players actually bother transferring Pokémon across the games, I could imagine them deciding to put their focus elsewhere.
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
And now I've just learned my youngest brother, a Pokemon super fan who has grown up with the series and has put hundreds upon hundreds of hours in every single Pokemon generation since like the third has said he's not planning on even getting Sword & Shield. Jesus this is depressing.
 

Graefellsom

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,625
My favorite is Noivern, Scizor and Alakazam just behind it. What is this thing people are filling out? Did a search but my eyes are tired so couldn't see.

Gamefreak must of known this backlash was going to come the moment they decided to cut pokemons.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,220
Rochester, New York
Have they ever released figures for Pokémon Bank? Because if it turns out only a small percentage of players actually bother transferring Pokémon across the games, I could imagine them deciding to put their focus elsewhere.
The thing is, even if not a lot of people used bank to move their Pokemon, the ones that did bred those Pokemon and traded them and let everyone experience them.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,499
The Digital World
This just making me want to replay Ultra Moon. At least I know I'll be able to raise what I want there.

(I actually really enjoyed Ultra, dont look too deeply into this)
 

Corrie1960

Banned
Mar 19, 2019
1,888
Why can't game freak hire more staff? Surly they knew these problems would happen eventually but I can understand why they cannot delay the games hey see if the anime, movies & trading cards and so on and so forth but still it sucks
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
15,368
My favorites are Heracross and Gardevoir, so I think they'll always be in. Feel bad for most of my other liked Pokémon like Lilligant, Mienshao, Liepard, etc.

This just making me want to replay Ultra Moon. At least I know I'll be able to raise what I want there.

(I actually really enjoyed Ultra, dont look too deeply into this)
I like SM and skipped the Ultra games because they ruined the story. But otherwise they look mostly fine, even if they keep some problems SM has, like the meh map/level design.
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
My favorites Granbull and Ampharos, so, I'm lucky a few gens, not so lucky in other.
My luck is looking terrible this gen.
 

Moltres006

Banned
Jan 5, 2019
1,818
My favorites are Heracross and Gardevoir, so I think they'll always be in. Feel bad for most of my other liked Pokémon like Lilligant, Mienshao, Liepard, etc.


I like SM and skipped the Ultra games because they ruined the story. But otherwise they look mostly fine, even if they keep some problems SM has, like the meh map/level design.
SM has Poni island which is my favorite Area in the franchise. The other islands are just OK.
 

Deleted member 2793

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Oct 25, 2017
15,368
SM has Poni island which is my favorite Area in the franchise. The other islands are just OK.
I like them all visually and how they make the world look lively. A few ones have nice design by themselves as well. What I don't like is how they're integrated in the world, they're basically different worlds not actually connected and that brings the whole thing down. It's cool to use surf and find the other islands, in SM you can't swim anywhere without rocks blocking you and you need to go through transition screens everytime you want to go to another island, it's lame.
 

Sterok

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,083
I hope in the anime, at the end of the League battle Ash narrowly loses once again, but it's all good because at least he did it with his buddies. And while he gives Lycanroc a hug for doing a good job it turns into dust, leaving no trace it ever existed. The plot of the next season is tracking down the source of this worldwide calamity, traced back to the Galar Region.
 

Jeff Vader

Member
Oct 25, 2017
896
I do feel a bit bad for the person running the Pokémon twitter. They finally were able to join into the goofiness that is corporate twitter and now they're gonna probably go right back to mute city.
 
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