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IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
They're animated in Let's Go!

The "make sense for region" stuff is obviously a pretext.
The new animations supoosed are for Pokémon Camp, so yeah, Let's Go not animated for that.
It's really unrealistic imagine a whole dex from a region in Galar, they never do that.
They can pull a Kalos and have 450 Pokémon, but there's no way they'll just dump a whole dex in there, they'll mix it up.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
Probably Meloetta currently. I actually submitted mine a bit earlier.
My favorite tends to change somewhat often, and I like a LOT of Pokemon.
giphy.gif


Or maybe it's Sylveon.
Or just basic ass Eevee, I do love Eevee.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
I wonder why they just couldn't make Pokemon have a aura around them instead of getting bigger. That would solve the model problem, no?
Bigger pokemon are clearly accomplished by scaling up the already existing model
They probably ditched Megas and Z-moves for this because of the null cost asset-wise in the first place lol
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
300 replies in 20 minutes. The momentum isn't stopping.



Sadly, I don't see this twitter campaign having much of an effect. GameFreak can brush it off as a bunch of angry Americans trying to bully an Eastern developer into catering to their whims.

Nothing will change unless the people of Japan have an outrage, with their own twitter hashtag, and their own boycotts of the games.
 

EdgeWilder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
873
Since Pokemon Home suppose to be some kinda hub for all pokemon. Wouldnt it be possible to add battling and other online stuff to dow ith your pokemon in Home? That way you can still battle with your mons if u really wanted to. Wouldn't need to add the animations for camp or w.e overworld stuff that cuase the cut.

Like call me crazy but i still think pokemon home is still a cool idea for retiring mons and having all your pokemons in one location. Especailly if u can interact with them in someday or at the very list have pokedex entries for them.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,664
Costa Rica
Sadly, I don't see this twitter campaign having much of an effect. GameFreak can brush it off as a bunch of angry Americans trying to bully an Eastern developer into catering to their whims.

Nothing will change unless the people of Japan have an outrage, with their own twitter hashtag, and their own boycotts of the games.

Japan is just as pissed off
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Since Pokemon Home suppose to be some kinda hub for all pokemon. Wouldnt it be possible to add battling and other online stuff to dow ith your pokemon in Home? That way you can still battle with your mons if u really wanted to. Wouldn't need to add the animations for camp or w.e overworld stuff that cuase the cut.

Like call me crazy but i still think pokemon home is still a cool idea for retiring mons and having all your pokemons in one location. Especailly if u can interact with them in someday or at the very list have pokedex entries for them.

Yup lots of us are scratching our heads that a mobile battler and bank hasnt been considered yet

We know Home is supposed to be more interactive and allow trading but why not everything else?
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,099
I'm lucky that my favourite Milotic has been confirmed already.

bbb4d073feb2720408df67abbdcbe5da.gif


As an apology to everyone who loses their favourite, here's a Milotic killing Ash Ketchum.

BigheartedWeightyAmphiuma-max-1mb.gif
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Adding battles and breeding to Home would actually be kind of fun. But they won't add those features to Home because they want to sell mainline games. Funny how that goes.
 

EdgeWilder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
873
god i hated stealth rock.. kinda dislike any meta were i'm basically forced to use the strategy and stealth rock was def a most in any team
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,385
Man, it sure was fun having all those people tell me that my complaints during Let's go were unfounded and that next years game would be the one for me, only to have this shit dropped on us.

So fuck it, this is going to be the first new pokemon gen I don't buy unless they go back on this decision, I don't want to support this rubbish.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
The new animations supoosed are for Pokémon Camp, so yeah, Let's Go not animated for that.
It's really unrealistic imagine a whole dex from a region in Galar, they never do that.
They can pull a Kalos and have 450 Pokémon, but there's no way they'll just dump a whole dex in there, they'll mix it up.
"___ doesn't like camping"

Problem solved.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
I mean in the sense that adding 150+ new Pokemon ballooned the amount of new Pokemon making it harder to bring them all back
It's not hard though.
It's becoming increasingly clear that if they are running out of 'space' it's because their programming so goddamn awful it's an 8th Wonder Nintendo at no point took a good look at the abilities of the programming and coding team and did some serious clean up.
They had Lillie and all her animations copy/pasted 20 separate times taking up 500MB. They did that for ALL of the recurring NPCs. Imagine how much space that would clear up- they would of had the space to actually put the following Pokemon feature people have been asking for in the game.
Creatures Inc. Literally did the work for them. Up until now (and yes I mean now, like in USUM) they have the running, walking, emoting, and battle animations of every single Pokemon; including legendaries, forms, and mega evolutions. They've had them for 7+years now.

The problem isn't the Pokemon count. They really don't take up all that much space. Especially in the hands of even a standard programmer. Gamefreak itself is too small, to godawful or both to handle this franchise. I can only imagine how much of a hot mess their branching off games like Town will be if they can't even handle the least demanding 'HD' game where the bar is on the fucking ground and they STILL manage to make a clown show of it.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,664
Costa Rica
Man, it sure was fun having all those people tell me that my complaints during Let's go were unfounded and that next years game would be the one for me, only to have this shit dropped on us.

So fuck it, this is going to be the first new pokemon gen I don't buy unless they go back on this decision, I don't want to support this rubbish.

I was right there with you.
tenor.gif


"___ doesn't like camping"

Problem solved.

THIS. FUCKING THIS.

"______ Would Rather Stay in it's PokeBall!"
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
It's not hard though.
It's becoming increasingly clear that if they are running out of 'space' it's because their programming so goddamn awful it's an 8th Wonder Nintendo at no point took a good look at the abilities of the programming and coding team and did some serious clean up.
They had Lillie and all her animations copy/pasted 20 separate times taking up 500MB. They did that for ALL of the recurring NPCs. Imagine how much space that would clear up- they would of had the space to actually put the following Pokemon feature people have been asking for in the game.
Creatures Inc. Literally did the work for them. Up until now (and yes I mean now, like in USUM) they have the running, walking, emoting, and battle animations of every single Pokemon; including legendaries, forms, and mega evolutions. They've had them for 7+years now.

The problem isn't the Pokemon count. They really don't take up all that much space. Especially in the hands of even a standard programmer. Gamefreak itself is too small, to godawful or both to handle this franchise. I can only imagine how much of a hot mess their branching off games like Town will be if they can't even handle the least demanding 'HD' game where the bar is on the fucking ground and they STILL manage to make a clown show of it.

The Witcher 3 has five open worlds on Switch. Storage is definitely not the issue here.

By the time they hit 2000 Pokémon, games will be over 1TB and storage will be a moot point.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
Sadly, I don't see this twitter campaign having much of an effect. GameFreak can brush it off as a bunch of angry Americans trying to bully an Eastern developer into catering to their whims.

Nothing will change unless the people of Japan have an outrage, with their own twitter hashtag, and their own boycotts of the games.
Japan has its own campaign going about this that is at least as loud as this.
Game Freak has noticed. They know people are unhappy.
Nintendo has noticed. They know people are unhappy.
TPCi has noticed. They know people are unhappy.
 

Nali

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,660
Persona 3 and 4 do something similar to this.
It's not hugely uncommon for memory limited systems to have games doing this because it's less ram intensive to be able to load/unload a specific model with the limited number of animations required for that scene than it is to have one model that can be brought in to every scene.
Storage space is an easier restriction to bypass than physical memory limitations.
I know Mega Man 11 was the same way, and by extension wouldn't be surprised if every MT Framework game copies assets across archives for performance reasons.
 

Cryxok

Member
Oct 27, 2017
433
México
I'm actually kind of glad I hadn't preordered the game before this news broke in.
I'll probably end up buying it anyway since I'm a sucker for Pokémon games. But at least now I can wait and see how this whole situation develops and maybe buy an used copy instead when time comes
 

cyrix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
112
So i don't know if anyone else has posted something similar, but my initial thoughts after hearing about the limited dex was that they are trying to kinda do what a lot of TCG's do and build the mainline games around a limited set of "cards", pokemon in this case. This would make balancing a lot easier along with allowing them to experiment with new mechanics/ideas without having to take literally everything they have ever done into account. I bet they are going to go forward with the mainline games operating as a kind of "Standard" play set for their lifespans, and they will add proper battling to GO or maybe HOME and let that be the "unlimited" format for people that want that.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
The problem isn't the Pokemon count. They really don't take up all that much space. Especially in the hands of even a standard programmer. Gamefreak itself is too small, to godawful or both to handle this franchise. I can only imagine how much of a hot mess their branching off games like Town will be if they can't even handle the least demanding 'HD' game where the bar is on the fucking ground and they STILL manage to make a clown show of it.
I don't know. Their non-Pokémon games are generally pretty good and well made, even though made in smaller scale.

I feel like Pokémon's main problem is the fast schedule and the fact that they decided making several games at the same time (they really had a huge chunk of the staff making Let's Go over SwSh). That and the production side of things, Gamefreak does make a lot of good things and are great in many aspects (like in monster and character creation, the battle system), but it feels like Masuda influences the design way too much with his mobile gaming obssession.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,099
Man, it sure was fun having all those people tell me that my complaints during Let's go were unfounded and that next years game would be the one for me, only to have this shit dropped on us.

So fuck it, this is going to be the first new pokemon gen I don't buy unless they go back on this decision, I don't want to support this rubbish.

The only thing positive thing I got out of Let's Go was the £40 I saved not buying that mess got put into Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth. And boy, that was certainly the right call. Cyber Sleuth is great.

giphy.gif
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
As someone who's last Pokemon game was Gold and Silver, can someone explain this thread to me as if I were a five-year-old? What's Pokemon Home and the Galar Pokedex?

Essentially, what does this mean? I see the reactions but I'm not quite understanding it.

Galar is the new region, each region has its own number of pokemons that appear in the region

pokemon home its a service where you can put all your pokemon that you have catched since forever (as long as you had transfer them from gen to gen during the last 20 years)

in pokemon sword and shield, you cant transfer a pokemon that doesnt appear on Galar at all, even if you have it on the pokemon home.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
So i don't know if anyone else has posted something similar, but my initial thoughts after hearing about the limited dex was that they are trying to kinda do what a lot of TCG's do and build the mainline games around a limited set of "cards", pokemon in this case. This would make balancing a lot easier along with allowing them to experiment with new mechanics/ideas without having to take literally everything they have ever done into account. I bet they are going to go forward with the mainline games operating as a kind of "Standard" play set for their lifespans, and they will add proper battling to GO or maybe HOME and let that be the "unlimited" format for people that want that.
Past games accomplished this by just restricting the usable pokemons in certain online and live formats, there is no need to erase anything
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,836
The idea that Gamefreak is creating new animations for this camping mechanic at the expense of half the roster over just reusing the perfectly-serviceable Refresh mechanic is infuriating.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,255
Rochester, New York
The idea that Gamefreak is creating new animations for this camping mechanic at the expense of half the roster over just reusing the perfectly-serviceable Refresh mechanic is infuriating.
They always prioritize weird gimmicks that are never used again over more important stuff

All the flying Pokemon still have weird constantly flying animations due to half a dozen gimmick battles 2 generations ago that people only remember due to ruining flying Pokemon animations forever
 
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WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
I'm thinking Game Freak are gonna be a little more aware of who hasn't been available now that the Regional Dex matters more.

Once again that's my optimism at play, but I don't really mind not having access to certain Pokemon for a few years.

Before you say "DID YOUR FAVORITE MAKE IT IN!?", no the first Pokemon I ever fully trained, Medicham, has not.
If they were that aware, they wouldnt have brought back Goldeen and Seaking for the 8th gen in a row.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
The Pokémon subreddit is a bloodbath right now. I don't think this anger came out of nowhere. It existed for a while.

My reading is that, if you've been a lifelong Pokémon fan, you've been routinely disappointed one way or another by the series. Maybe they removed a feature you really liked, or maybe the series went in a direction you didn't prefer, but chances are even the most faithful fans have been disappointed by decisions Game Freak has made.

But people overlook those disappointments because they love Pokémon. And maybe there are design decisions you don't like or features removed, but it's still Pokémon, and that was always enough to look beyond the things you didn't like and focus on the things you did. After all, people play Pokémon in so many different ways. Maybe the things that meant a lot to you just weren't popular enough to justify. If you were going to stick with the series, you needed to make peace with the fact you wouldn't always get everything you wanted.

But this change is just so fundamental. It has enormous implications for almost every single kind of player. You can't look past it and say "well, at least it's still Pokémon" because this time the fundamental Pokémon experience, something you took for granted, the thing that always kept you grounded despite the other changes, has been compromised. So no matter what you were disappointed with previously, and however you made peace with that, now almost every type of Pokémon fan is unanimously disappointed at once.

In the past, when I was upset about a feature or a change, I just swallowed it and thought "it's not all about me." But this time, for once, it's about everybody. So everyone's just letting it out.
 
Last edited:
Nov 14, 2017
2,836
My reading is that, if you've been a lifelong Pokémon fan, you've been routinely disappointed one way or another by the series. Maybe they removed a feature you really liked, or maybe the series went in a direction you didn't prefer, but chances are even the most faithful fans have been disappointed by decisions Game Freak has made.

But people overlook those disappointments because they love Pokémon. And maybe there are design decisions you don't like or features removed, but it's still Pokémon, and that was always enough to to look beyond the things you didn't like and focus on the things you did. After all, people play Pokémon in so many different ways. Maybe the things that meant a lot to you just weren't popular enough to justify. If you were going to stick with the series, you needed to make peace with the fact you wouldn't always get everything you wanted.

But this change is just so fundamental. It has enormous implications for almost every single kind of player. You can't look past it and say "well, at least it's still Pokémon" because this time the fundamental Pokémon experience, something you took for granted, the thing that always kept you grounded despite the other changes, has been compromised. So no matter what you were disappointed with previously, and however you made peace with that, now almost every type of Pokémon fan is unanimously disappointed at once.

In the past, when I was upset about a feature or a change, I just swallowed it and thought "it's not all about me." But this time, for once, it's about everybody. So everyone's just letting it out.
This basically.

Gamefreak has a bad history of removing features each game. Even if you ignore the game specific ones like the PokeNav or following Pokemon, you still have stuff like move tutors that are always left out of the first game in a generation, presumably for half-assed attempts at balancing and resetting the meta. It's just that this time it's on a massive scale. We've backtracked all the way back to Gen 3, except this time the technical excuse they're using is full of shit.
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
So i don't know if anyone else has posted something similar, but my initial thoughts after hearing about the limited dex was that they are trying to kinda do what a lot of TCG's do and build the mainline games around a limited set of "cards", pokemon in this case. This would make balancing a lot easier along with allowing them to experiment with new mechanics/ideas without having to take literally everything they have ever done into account. I bet they are going to go forward with the mainline games operating as a kind of "Standard" play set for their lifespans, and they will add proper battling to GO or maybe HOME and let that be the "unlimited" format for people that want that.

Leaving aside the fact that they can easily exclude certain pokemon from competitive play (there's already a system for that), there's another reason why I don't think this is the case.

If this was about balance, then why not just actually take the time to explain that? They kinda mentioned it off-hand while mostly focusing on how hard it is to make games for the Switch. They could have presented this as part of a greater rebalancing that includes cross-gen evos, redistributed base stats, replacing Megas/Z-moves with Dynamax and so forth. The reception would have been far less negative.

Instead they put it in terms of the benefit only for themselves, not their customers. "We always knew it would get too hard to support all the pokemon". It's really stupid.
 

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,932
Camping, because Sinnoh is next.

I cant get over a region being cold being a reason you can't bring something over. It feels like foreshadowing.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Leaving aside the fact that they can easily exclude certain pokemon from competitive play (there's already a system for that), there's another reason why I don't think this is the case.

If this was about balance, then why not just actually take the time to explain that? They kinda mentioned it off-hand while mostly focusing on how hard it is to make games for the Switch. They could have presented this as part of a greater rebalancing that includes cross-gen evos, redistributed base stats, replacing Megas/Z-moves with Dynamax and so forth. The reception would have been far less negative.

Instead they put it in terms of the benefit only for themselves, not their customers. "We always knew it would get too hard to support all the pokemon". It's really stupid.

Yeah the language and PR is really bad so far diminishing any good faith that they somehow have something interesting being built to justify the changes
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Instead they put it in terms of the benefit only for themselves, not their customers. "We always knew it would get too hard to support all the pokemon". It's really stupid.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.
 

Shedinja

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,815
People defending this on twitter really expect camping to look like this huh?

3016577-9794235378-tumbl.gif
Meanwhile, I'm expecting:

*walk toward an identifiable marking on the ground"

"This open field looks perfect for some rest! Would you like to set up camp here?"

*Menu Options*
"Poké___" (some sort of food)
"Play" (some sort of mini game)
"Switch"

"Feed Sobble a Blue Poké_____?"

"Sobble looks happy!"
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,320
I said it earlier but take away the metagame of transferring your Pokemon from generation to generation and you're left with a pretty mediocre JRPG with cute monsters.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.

I appreciate the honesty. I really do. But it's disheartening all the same. No one wants to hear "we've hit a wall" from a developer at the start of a new generation. It's a buzzkill, especially during E3.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.

Maybe they really are in a bad place right now

When is the company gonna step in and properly fund and staff the team then?
 

Cromat

Member
Mar 17, 2019
677
Yeah the language and PR is really bad so far diminishing any good faith that they somehow have something interesting being built to justify the changes
Unfortunately, that seems to be the main reason if you go by that Famitsu interview. They are saying it's just not sustainable to include them all anymore. Basically, they are admitting their limitations as a developer. Not saying that people have to accept that from the Pokémon franchise, but that's what they seem to be saying.

From a communications point of view this has been an absolute shitshow. I guess Masuda deserves props for actually letting us know ahead of releasing the games (can you imagine if they didn't...). But reading through their rationale, I can't help but think "how is this my problem?!". Seriously, people spend their hard-earned money on your games and merchandise. A lot of them buy an entire console they wouldn't have bought otherwise just to play pokemon. The argument that this cannot be done from a technical standpoint just doesn't hold up when you see The Witcher 3 releasing on the Switch. I mean come on.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
I said it earlier but take away the metagame of transferring your Pokemon from generation to generation and you're left with a pretty mediocre JRPG with cute monsters.
I actually think the gameplay is in the higher tier of the genre and I appreciate the game design not becoming trash like FF. I also dig the world building and characters. It just needs the post-game challenges to let the player have fun single player wise with it, also difficulty options would be nice.
 
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