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Arynio

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,235
Nope it won't. They have moved that functionality to the HOME app so that it transcends the restricted dex between the games and doesn't segment things too much.

Yeah, I agree. That on its own has both advantages and disadvantages relative to the original implementation. Thanks for answering.
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Tate and Liza was the main odd ones out for that, I know their Emerald team they are regarded as some of the harder gym leaders in the game, but their Ruby/Sapphire teams were jokes and it was disappointing to see them go with that in ORAS.

At minimum I expect Flints team to be different.

D0QQD03XQAA3Onh.jpg


Please explain why Lopunny fits on the Fire Type Elite 4 team without making it sound weird.

It may not be exactly the Platinum trainer set for him, but it would probably be close. I'd expect Magmortar to be his ace in BDSP.
This is just asking to be replaced with Cinderace tbh
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,118
Yeah, I agree. That on its own has both advantages and disadvantages relative to the original implementation. Thanks for answering.
Yeah. I personally think it's the best solution. GTS will carry on in HOME and doesn't matter if say you don't get Legends, you'll be able to get a Wyrdeer easily, or get a Turtwig from BDSP even if you don't have it.

You also don't need the online subscription for it, which you would do if it was in SWSH/BDSP.

But I get it's an extra level of "faff"
 

RXM027

Member
Dec 18, 2020
1,017
Yeah. I personally think it's the best solution. GTS will carry on in HOME and doesn't matter if say you don't get Legends, you'll be able to get a Wyrdeer easily, or get a Turtwig from BDSP even if you don't have it.

You also don't need the online subscription for it, which you would do if it was in SWSH/BDSP.

But I get it's an extra level of "faff"
Do you know why there is such a weird feature disparity between the Switch and mobile apps? I don't think this would be as much as an issue if you could access the GTS on the Switch app, even if having to quit the game would still be a bit of a hassle. I also don't think that it would be subject to the NSO paywall, as free games such as Fortnite and Rocket League can played online without a subscription, so I don't see why they would charge for using the GTS in Home on Switch.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
Tate and Liza was the main odd ones out for that, I know their Emerald team they are regarded as some of the harder gym leaders in the game, but their Ruby/Sapphire teams were jokes and it was disappointing to see them go with that in ORAS.

At minimum I expect Flints team to be different.

D0QQD03XQAA3Onh.jpg


Please explain why Lopunny fits on the Fire Type Elite 4 team without making it sound weird.

It may not be exactly the Platinum trainer set for him, but it would probably be close. I'd expect Magmortar to be his ace in BDSP.

That was so random. I don't understand why they didn't have Magmortar there. Or... Maybe don't make a fire type E4 if you don't have enough fire types in the game to fill a team.
 

Charlie0108

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,020
I wonder if they'll replicate having to 'see' all the Pokemon in order to complete the Pokédex, as it was in the original. If so then they'd have to change the trainer line-ups if they've changed the Dex.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
I wonder if they'll replicate having to 'see' all the Pokemon in order to complete the Pokédex, as it was in the original. If so then they'd have to change the trainer line-ups if they've changed the Dex.

I think that's how it's been ever since? The Pokedex evaluation considers the Pokémon you've seen, not the ones you've caught.
 
Jun 5, 2018
3,217
It's different from an "improved" game though. Enhanced versions are seen as separate games, with separate development teams and directors. That's how the games are seen. They do still implement some, as we saw with HGSS and even ORAS having a few Emerald features, albeit not everything, but it shouldn't be an expectation when you're dealing with a remake. It wouldn't be "cutting features" by not including it. That phrase is disingenuous

We may yet see some Platinum content anyway. It's too soon to write stuff off
I imagine something will happen with giratina, you'd have to go out of your way to mitigate it as much as it was in diamond and Pearl, but while the company may see platinum as completely different than diamond and pearl, the general audience wouldn't, the other point of course being that we don't get remakes of third versions directly, with let's go being the exception, so those who do want platinum content have only one hope, and that's these.
 

RXM027

Member
Dec 18, 2020
1,017
I think that's how it's been ever since? The Pokedex evaluation considers the Pokémon you've seen, not the ones you've caught.
The main thing is that in the Sinnoh games, this was actually required to access most of the post-game content; you actually had to see every Pokemon in order to get the National Dex and unlock the rest of the post-game. You couldn't access most of the island outside of the Fight Area or migrate mons from GBA games without doing so. This makes missing certain trainers much more annoying, as they could have Pokemon that otherwise would be a hassle to obtain. I remember in the original D/P I was stuck camping on Honey Trees so I could find Burmy, as I had missed the trainer that had one, and the only way to see Burmy was the damn tree mechanic.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
I think that's how it's been ever since? The Pokedex evaluation considers the Pokémon you've seen, not the ones you've caught.
in DPP you need to see everything in the Sinnoh Dex to unlock the Nat Dex, which is done by giving most of the Pokémon in the Sinnoh Dex to enemy Trainers

if they do a Sinnoh Dex with the Platinum mons but don't change the enemy rosters to include them, that's a problem if they don't change how you get the National Dex (you can catch stuff in the Underground but you'd still need to trade to see certain evolutions)
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,118
Do you know why there is such a weird feature disparity between the Switch and mobile apps? I don't think this would be as much as an issue if you could access the GTS on the Switch app, even if having to quit the game would still be a bit of a hassle. I also don't think that it would be subject to the NSO paywall, as free games such as Fortnite and Rocket League can played online without a subscription, so I don't see why they would charge for using the GTS in Home on Switch.

For model viewers, yes. It's the same reason all Pokémon aren't in SWSH. We can only hope that gets added later. If people ever question why we just have static images on HOME Switch and not mobile, that's why

As for the other features, I'm unsure. I did think it was due to the NSO thing but like you say, F2P games are exempt. I do think they need to add the GTS portals etc. to the Switch. I'm sure there is a reason as contrary to belief, things aren't just done arbitrarily, but unfortunately I'm not privy to this one
 

RXM027

Member
Dec 18, 2020
1,017
For model viewers, yes. It's the same reason all Pokémon aren't in SWSH. We can only hope that gets added later. If people ever question why we just have static images on HOME Switch and not mobile, that's why

As for the other features, I'm unsure. I did think it was due to the NSO thing but like you say, F2P games are exempt. I do think they need to add the GTS portals etc. to the Switch. I'm sure there is a reason as contrary to belief, things aren't just done arbitrarily, but unfortunately I'm not privy to this one
Thanks for answering! I totally forgot that the ability to view models was only on the phone app, although that's a really minor thing. TBH, I was mainly bothered by stuff like the trading features, the ability to create tags for Pokemon, and accepting Mystery Gifts only being mobile features for some reason, as well as the mobile app being locked to a single device at a time. I agree that there had to be a reason for doing so (even if it's silly), but I have no idea why that is. Could be a simple as Nintendo wanting to drive mobile engagement or something. Hopefully we'll see improvements to Home going forward, like how Bank got a major update with the release of Gen 7.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,554
The main thing is that in the Sinnoh games, this was actually required to access most of the post-game content; you actually had to see every Pokemon in order to get the National Dex and unlock the rest of the post-game. You couldn't access most of the island outside of the Fight Area or migrate mons from GBA games without doing so. This makes missing certain trainers much more annoying, as they could have Pokemon that otherwise would be a hassle to obtain. I remember in the original D/P I was stuck camping on Honey Trees so I could find Burmy, as I had missed the trainer that had one, and the only way to see Burmy was the damn tree mechanic.

in DPP you need to see everything in the Sinnoh Dex to unlock the Nat Dex, which is done by giving most of the Pokémon in the Sinnoh Dex to enemy Trainers

if they do a Sinnoh Dex with the Platinum mons but don't change the enemy rosters to include them, that's a problem if they don't change how you get the National Dex (you can catch stuff in the Underground but you'd still need to trade to see certain evolutions)

Oh, I didn't remember that!

...Guess I'm in trouble then, cause I'm playing Platinum right now and I'm not fighting every trainer.
 

RXM027

Member
Dec 18, 2020
1,017
Oh, I didn't remember that!

...Guess I'm in trouble then, cause I'm playing Platinum right now and I'm not fighting every trainer.
The only ones that are a serious problem to miss are gym trainers and Galactic grunts, as you obviously can't rematch them, and they become unfightable once you beat the leader/admin. Every trainer in the world can always be fought, so missing one isn't a massive problem as long as you can find them. The one that always got me during Platinum was Unown, as I always Repel-ed my way through Solaceon Ruins with encountering a single one, and then being really confused by my dex at the end being 209/210.
 

Alooful

One Winged Slayer
Member
Mar 27, 2020
441
Anyone acting surprised with outrage at the lack of Battle Frontier has not been paying attention the last 8 or so years. They've made it clear they're not doing that again, time to move on.

If anyone needs a positive spin for themselves, even without Platinum's other bonus stuff, this will still be the most content-packed Pokemon game since ORAS most likely. At least by my own measure, maybe others will disagree and argue for USUM.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,256
Midgar, With Love
I know I've said it before but I've just seriously wanted a Switch-based title with routes that feel like routes again and I'm willing to gobble up a reheated rendition. The lack of Battle Frontier (was this confirmed someplace, btw? I'm not caught up on BDSP news) is a shame but yeah.
 
I know I've said it before but I've just seriously wanted a Switch-based title with routes that feel like routes again and I'm willing to gobble up a reheated rendition. The lack of Battle Frontier (was this confirmed someplace, btw? I'm not caught up on BDSP news) is a shame but yeah.
The released the full map of BDSP's Sinnoh and the Battle Zone looks exactly as it did in DP.
 

mnk

Member
Nov 11, 2017
6,307
Anyone acting surprised with outrage at the lack of Battle Frontier has not been paying attention the last 8 or so years. They've made it clear they're not doing that again, time to move on.

If anyone needs a positive spin for themselves, even without Platinum's other bonus stuff, this will still be the most content-packed Pokemon game since ORAS most likely. At least by my own measure, maybe others will disagree and argue for USUM.
I will say the changes to contests make me a lot more likely to engage with them over the original version.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,295
I know I've said it before but I've just seriously wanted a Switch-based title with routes that feel like routes again and I'm willing to gobble up a reheated rendition. The lack of Battle Frontier (was this confirmed someplace, btw? I'm not caught up on BDSP news) is a shame but yeah.
Let's Go has traditional routes
 
Jun 5, 2018
3,217
So one thing that hadn't been talked about is the use of clouds from platinum, it's minor but it could possibly hint towards more platinum content.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,072
Wait, besides the dress-up removal, what else has changed?

It appears to just be the Dance Competition now, with the Acting Competition being removed and replaced with using a move one time during the Dance Competition to get a greater score.

I don't think it's a better change myself personally.
 

CJXVI

Member
Nov 3, 2020
96
So one thing that hadn't been talked about is the use of clouds from platinum, it's minor but it could possibly hint towards more platinum content.


Still not trying to get my hopes up. But i wIll say those comparison shots made me realize how much of an improvement the models have gone through since that Feb. trailer
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
I would agree if we were say getting a GTA IV remake. I would expect the extra content here

However, we're not talking about downloadable or extra content, we're talking about people calling the content of a different game being "cut" from a remake of another game. It's semantics, sure, but it's not them "cutting" content from a remake, it's them not adding content from another game. There is a difference.
Platinum isn't really a "different game", though. It's an enhanced version of Diamond and Pearl. In an era before DLC was possible, releasing a separate game was the only way to update a game with substantial new content. It'd be no different than a remake of Sword and Shield excluding the expansion pass content.
Not sure if I should make a separate thread or not, but any reason why these games won't be used for the official VBC season at all? Seems lame to ignore gen 4 remakes when it would be their time in the sun. Also I feel like it would really spice things up.
It appears to be a shift in strategy for the mainline Pokémon games going forward. Instead of having things like VGC track new games as they release, the generation has one main game that continues to be updated, while other games released merely feed said game with new/returning Pokémon. This frees the remakes from the pressure of having to be effectively a full new mainline game, while also giving Game Freak time to work on side projects like Legends.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,236
I really wish they'd add GTS to these games, I know that convo is a bit old but I don't subscribe to Home as I don't bring my Pokemon forward (amusingly, it was Diamond and Pearl and the terrible way in which you brought Pokemon forward that kind of cemented that for me) and I just generally enjoy trading in the games I'm playing at the time.

Who knows maybe I'll sub to Home, but I doubt it.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,263
I really wish they'd add GTS to these games, I know that convo is a bit old but I don't subscribe to Home as I don't bring my Pokemon forward (amusingly, it was Diamond and Pearl and the terrible way in which you brought Pokemon forward that kind of cemented that for me) and I just generally enjoy trading in the games I'm playing at the time.

Who knows maybe I'll sub to Home, but I doubt it.
You don't have to sub to Home to use the GTS, you'll just be limited to trading 1 Pokemon at a time and 30 in the PC box.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
The way I always thought about Diamond & Pearl, and I was disappointed that they didn't go this way beyond this, is that they went with Pokémon that had moves of a specific type rather than Pokémon of an actual specific type
D/P rosters were based on move types instead of Pokémon. It's weird but kind of interesting from a design stand point. You get more varied teams that way.

They made Flint's ace in Pokemas Infernape, though of course it could change with this game.
Let's be honest: If this was the case, it wouldn't just be Flint, Candice, and Volkner with weird teams.

It wasn't Gamefreak trying to make more nuanced gym leader and elite 4 teams. It was Gamefreak struggling to slap something together under the incredibly poor Sinnohdex. That is obvious when you look at every other type specialist and see them adhering to their type pretty well. Lucian has only Psychic types, Gardenia has only Grass types, Fantina has only Ghost types, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why the Electric type,with only 3 fully evolved Pokemon and the Fire type with only 2 got the short end of fate stick.

Not to mention that Flint's team doesn't even cover Fire's weaknesses well. Steelix is weak to Water and Ground, Drifblim is weak to Rock and neutral to Water, and Lopunny resists none of the weaknesses. So his diverse team isn't actually any more threatening than a mono-type one.
 
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Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,994
I wonder what the thought process was behind some of the teams in D/P. Also, if the Sinnoh dex was finalized first, why go ahead and keep a fire type specialist E4? Replace that shit. But then again, Gamefreak's E4 selection has often made no damn sense.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
I wonder what the thought process was behind some of the teams in D/P. Also, if the Sinnoh dex was finalized first, why go ahead and keep a fire type specialist E4? Replace that shit. But then again, Gamefreak's E4 selection has often made no damn sense.
Hell if I know. The Diamond and Pearl Pokedex is disastrous for the games in general. Rotom and most of the cross-gen evolutions aren't in it, while instead we have stuff like Girafarig, Seaking, and Noctowl.

Flint is almost like a joke about how little sense everything makes.

That was so random. I don't understand why they didn't have Magmortar there. Or... Maybe don't make a fire type E4 if you don't have enough fire types in the game to fill a team.
Or even better yet, fill the game with more Fire Pokemon, including that new Magmar evolution you're putting in the advertising!
 
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King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Tate and Liza was the main odd ones out for that, I know their Emerald team they are regarded as some of the harder gym leaders in the game, but their Ruby/Sapphire teams were jokes and it was disappointing to see them go with that in ORAS.

At minimum I expect Flints team to be different.

D0QQD03XQAA3Onh.jpg


Please explain why Lopunny fits on the Fire Type Elite 4 team without making it sound weird.

It may not be exactly the Platinum trainer set for him, but it would probably be close. I'd expect Magmortar to be his ace in BDSP.

The Platinum Pokédex has been confirmed for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl so expect Candice, Volkner and the Elite Four to have their Platinum team.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,118
Let's be honest: If this was the case, it wouldn't just be Flint, Candice, and Volkner with weird teams.

It wasn't Gamefreak trying to make more nuanced gym leader and elite 4 teams. It was Gamefreak struggling to slap something together under the incredibly poor Sinnohdex. That is obvious when you look at every other type specialist and see them adhering to their type pretty well. Lucian has only Psychic types, Gardenia has only Grass types, Fantina has only Ghost types, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why the Electric type,with only 3 fully evolved Pokemon and the Fire type with only 2 got the short end of fate stick.

Not to mention that Flint's team doesn't even cover Fire's weaknesses well. Steelix is weak to Water and Ground, Drifblim is weak to Rock and neutral to Water, and Lopunny resists none of the weaknesses. So his diverse team isn't actually any more threatening than a mono-type one.
No it was Game Freak doing what they can with what they had and thus those trainers became more move-type based
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
The Platinum Pokédex has been confirmed for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl so expect Candice, Volkner and the Elite Four to have their Platinum team.
Don't think it's been confirmed. There's Platinum Pokémon in the Underground but they're likely in the same vein as Dream World/QR code mons, since there's also other Pokémon down there and we haven't seen anything to suggest that those Pokémon show up in rosters
Let's be honest: If this was the case, it wouldn't just be Flint, Candice, and Volkner with weird teams.

It wasn't Gamefreak trying to make more nuanced gym leader and elite 4 teams. It was Gamefreak struggling to slap something together under the incredibly poor Sinnohdex. That is obvious when you look at every other type specialist and see them adhering to their type pretty well. Lucian has only Psychic types, Gardenia has only Grass types, Fantina has only Ghost types, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why the Electric type,with only 3 fully evolved Pokemon and the Fire type with only 2 got the short end of fate stick.

Not to mention that Flint's team doesn't even cover Fire's weaknesses well. Steelix is weak to Water and Ground, Drifblim is weak to Rock and neutral to Water, and Lopunny resists none of the weaknesses. So his diverse team isn't actually any more threatening than a mono-type one.
Yeah, it's kinda blatant how much of a function of the limited Dex it is. If they wanted to sell it as a thing the other Elite Four should've gotten some "curveball" Pokémon... Although honestly, given how many are used by the other boss fights, they'd kind of have slim pickings there. I guess Seaking with Megahorn would be about as threatening as a Beautifly?
 
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King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Don't think it's been confirmed. There's Platinum Pokémon in the Underground but they're likely in the same vein as Dream World/QR code mons, since there's also other Pokémon down there and we haven't seen anything to suggest that those Pokémon show up in rosters

Magneton, Togepi, Altaria, Houndoom, Tangrowth, Dusknoir etc. were showcased in the trailer none of which were native to the Diamond and Pearl Pokédex.
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,297
It appears to be a shift in strategy for the mainline Pokémon games going forward. Instead of having things like VGC track new games as they release, the generation has one main game that continues to be updated, while other games released merely feed said game with new/returning Pokémon. This frees the remakes from the pressure of having to be effectively a full new mainline game, while also giving Game Freak time to work on side projects like Legends.
As much as I would love this, we have no indication from Game Freak or TPC that they'll be feeding content from any of these games into Sword & Shield. Until confirmed otherwise it's best to assume this will be like USUM being the VGC titles while Let's Go were the latest games. It's definitely possible, but let's not pretend it's confirmed.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
As much as I would love this, we have no indication from Game Freak or TPC that they'll be feeding content from any of these games into Sword & Shield. Until confirmed otherwise it's best to assume this will be like USUM being the VGC titles while Let's Go were the latest games. It's definitely possible, but let's not pretend it's confirmed.
That was a much different situation. A two year gap between new VGC relevant releases is a fairly typical occurrence that happens at least once per generation, but this would almost certainly be a 3 year gap, which decidedly isn't. USUM was also pre-patching in Pokémon post-release era and the only new Pokémon in Let's Go (really Go, but that's kind of besides the point) were Mythicals, which effectively banned them from the vast majority of VGC competitions anyway. It would be deeply weird if Sword and Shield aren't updated with the new and returning Pokémon around the same time as Home support rolls out.
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,297
That was a much different situation. A two year gap between new VGC relevant releases is a fairly typical occurrence that happens at least once per generation, but this would almost certainly be a 3 year gap, which decidedly isn't. USUM was also pre-patching in Pokémon post-release era and the only new Pokémon in Let's Go (really Go, but that's kind of besides the point) were Mythicals, which effectively banned them from the vast majority of VGC competitions anyway. It would be deeply weird if Sword and Shield aren't updated with the new and returning Pokémon around the same time as Home support rolls out.
Again though, no indication from either company that they'll be updating Sword and Shield for this. There are plenty of Pokémon with updated models and animations for Let's Go that weren't ported to Sword & Shield in any updates either.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Again though, no indication from either company that they'll be updating Sword and Shield for this. There are plenty of Pokémon with updated models and animations for Let's Go that weren't ported to Sword & Shield in any updates either.
Let's Go is a pretty deeply exceptional case that it's dangerous to try and generalize with. They were also notably made before Sword and Shield were finished and have very different lighting.

While I agree that it would be a lot better if they were actually up front about what their plans are, unfortunately, that's just not a luxury we've had this entire generation. Pretty much all the communication around vaguely Dexit released things has been quite bad, and has been a significant exacerbating factor in the backlash against it. At the beginning of the year, it looked likely that the other half of the missing Pokémon in Sword and Shield would be dealt with this year. While the initial announcement of BDSP cast some doubt on that, keeping Sword and Shield as the VGC game changes things a bit. The most logical assumption in light of that is that Sword and Shield's post release support, which is already pretty deeply unprecedented in franchise history, is not over, and with continuing to add more Pokémon and moves being the most obvious way to do it. It's possible they won't, but Id have some serious concerns about their long term plans if that happens.
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,896
Not gonna lie now that Hounddour/doom is confirmed to be in BDSP it makes me want to go back and play Sword and Shield since those pokemon will be in a switch game even if SW/SH may not have a patch to add them.
 

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
Can't find it now but it seems a French advertisement implied the game would only allow Pokemon from up to Gen IV

(Though like with Let's Go that doesn't rule out regional variants or possible Megas)

A little lame cuz it's fun to see what old game Trainers might use of newer rosters but that's solid if all 493 are available)
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
Can't find it now but it seems a French advertisement implied the game would only allow Pokemon from up to Gen IV

(Though like with Let's Go that doesn't rule out regional variants or possible Megas)

A little lame cuz it's fun to see what old game Trainers might use of newer rosters but that's solid if all 493 are available)
The chances of it actually only being the first 493 are close to zero because specifically disallowing Sylveon would be incredibly dumb.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,263
They could just chuck Sylveon in there on top of the old ones like they did with Mystery Dungeon DX