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CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,173
Chicago, IL
It's the Pokémon cycle
Happened to gen 4 and 3 too
I only played Gens 1 -3 as they launched and took a break until lets go and sword.

I remember this awesome excitement when i first got ruby, i even got sapphire, and then when emerald was revealed it was crazy cause it was like new content too. Gen 3 was the best it ever was imo lol. i thought it was loved at its time!
 

Babu93

Member
Feb 9, 2021
2,367
I'd been playing since Pokemon Red, and Gen V totally lost me. Couldn't even finish White, I thought it was so bad. Just felt like such a massive step down from Gen IV. Didn't pick up another Pokemon game since Sword and Shield.

Went back and played it recently and I actually made it through, so it was better than I gave it credit for. But it's still weak as hell. Don't get me started on Castelia City.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
I remember disliking Gen3, liking Gen4/5/6, disliking 7, and liking 8... which feels like the opposite of everyone else?

But it's likely just nostalgia for most people. None of the Pokemon games are 'bad' so the only people who are going to care a lot about each generation are the people who liked it a lot.
 

WhiskeyRose

Member
Mar 8, 2020
250
I loved Black and White at the time, but I was definitely in the minority among my friends. It's still my favorite set of games in the series.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,463
Can't really speak to this particular situation, but it's possible to have dissatisfaction with the current state of [x] blind you to what's still great about it, while also not realizing just how far it can sink afterward -- thus, giving you retroactive appreciation for it.

As a comparison: I'm a WoW player, solely interested in the PvP side. During WotLK & MoP -- what I would call the two apexes of PvP design -- I had reservations; I thought A, B, or C aspects of them were frustrating and bad, hoping for improvement on the horizon.

Little did I know that subsequent expansions would be so much worse in my eyes, almost completely different games because of design ethos shifts. I didn't always appreciate the quality when I had it.

What does this have to do with Pokemon?

Well, I was sort of drifting away from Pokemon at the time of Gen 4/5, so like I said, I can't speak to them. But I think the line of demarcation separating the design ethos of Gen 5 and before, and Gen 6 and beyond, is abundantly clear.

People at the time may've been dissatisfied with this or that about 5 (say, the whole new roster, or whatever) without fully appreciating the aspects that made pre-6 special to them (say, the pixel art, or the dungeons), which saw change/simplification in subsequent entries.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,410
São Paulo, Brazil
I remember disliking Gen3, liking Gen4/5/6, disliking 7, and liking 8... which feels like the opposite of everyone else?

But it's likely just nostalgia for most people. None of the Pokemon games are 'bad' so the only people who are going to care a lot about each generation are the people who liked it a lot.
Gen 3 is the worst.

Cue the IGN review memes.
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
The initial backlash to gen 5 was mostly people complaining about there being no previous gen pokemon until the postgame. There wasn't nearly as much complaining about the games themselves (obviously that did exist, but not a noticeably higher degree than usual). Then BW2 launched and fixed that and were even better games and got a super positive reception.

re: that Reddit meme, I would expect a turnaround on gen 8 if the only major issue was the removal of the national dex, cause if the games were good enough eventually people would get over it. But unfortunately that was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to gen 8's problems.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,652
I really really hate that ppl use this as some type of gotcha moment when ppl don't like the newer gens tho. Like the ppl that liked it remain loud the ppl that didn't shut up about it and either started hating another gen more or moved on because they...didn't like it
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,320
The Stussining
If my internet experience with the game is still accurate. The vocal minority that hated the game moved onto hating the next mainline game. Eventually enough time passed that the most vocal of people that hated the games either forgot that they hated them. Or softened their stance as nostalgia for the game can start to kick in. I find myself in the latter camp. I didn't like Black and White when it released and it actually made me drop Pokémon entirely. I only came around to it because gamefreak does not make that style of Pokémon game anymore, so I can appreciate it in a vacuum.

It's happening right now with X and Y with lots of nostalgia for the online systems in the game. It's starting to happen with Sun and Moon as I've noticed that complaints like "forced story portions halting the flow of the game" are slowly but surely vanishing from topics that discuss the games. And eventually it'll happen to Sword and Shield as well.
 

mjw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
540
The most I've ever seen negatively about BW back then were some of the pokemon designs, a pokemon "not looking like a pokemon" was something I never failed to hear
 

dumbyugi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
273
I know there was plenty of complaining about some of the Pokemon designs and some loud complaints about the dex being restricted until post game before the games launched but once they actually came out I thought they were well received by even a lot of the pre-launch complainers .
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,785
I don't remember people hating it, if anything I remember people questioning the game because it came out so close the the 3DS release.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,261
It was my favorite Pokemon immediately and yeah I remember the hate. Especially on GAF. But that's just how it is with this series. It sells a lot and now everyone has their own idea of what Pokemon needs to be or it's the worst ever. I've been involved with Pokemon fandom online since basically the beginning and I've seen every game in the series get slagged.
 

EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
People didn't like that it had new stuff and those people were dumb. It's very clearly the best gen in the series by an enormous amount. The actual best stories overall, the best music, best designs, best region, the works.
 

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
I wasn't talking video games on the internet back then, but everyone I knew at school who played it, including me, absolutely loved it. I still see some hate for it, particularly the starters, but the haters are likely just a vocal minority.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,652
I wasn't talking video games on the internet back then, but everyone I knew at school who played it, including me, absolutely loved it. I still see some hate for it, particularly the starters, but the haters are likely just a vocal minority.
Imagine hating this king
300
 

mk_68

Banned
Feb 3, 2020
942
I had no clue Black/White was hated. I don't remember hating them personally.

Black2/White2 tho....I hated the games with a passion.
 
Last edited:
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I always loved the game but I do remember people hating it. Non-stop about the "back in my day we had cool Pokémon now they're just trash bags and ice cream." Might have been when "genwunners" really became a thing. I also think it's a big reason why Game Freak went all in on Gen 1 nostalgia for the following gens.

Seeing Gen 5 get praise now just feels like total vindication.
 
Jun 5, 2018
3,217
People don't tend to complain about games they don't like for 10 years, more often than not when the games are new and the current baseline grievances are aired, not to say they are bad games or anything mind you, and the main complains about only new Pokemon as I recall would inevitably lessen with exposure.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
12,993
Black and White's story is like a fucking masterpiece compared to every other Pokemon story. N hijacking the Pokemon league and the castle rising are like the shining moments of the franchise in terms of the campaigns
 

FusionNY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,704
I remember some minor griping about no old pokemon in the main campaign but I don't think they were ever hated. At least not to the level that X/Y or Sword and Shield are. I guess being the last mostly 2D Pokemon has given an extra boost in nostalgia but they have always been well liked games.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,081
If there's one thing I've noticed over the years of this franchise, some people are VERY devoted to their favourite mons, to the point they'll roll through multiple games using old favourites whenever possible.
Now while I think that's a pretty unexciting way to approach new generations, each to their own I guess.

But Black and White? its decision to make its main game entirely focused on the unova dex with old mon only in the post game, really rankled these kind of players.
This grumbling then extended to the new pokemon in the crosshairs, which are a batch I've always considered to be mostly great with some real stinkers bookending its front (early game pokemon) and back (legendaries).
Having to replace plenty of recurring series tropes for both fitting standard environments and teaching new players some of the old evolution methods etc led to a lot of "like Gen 1 but not" pokemon which could be seen as redundant.
There were similar sentiments I remember from lapsed players I knew who hadn't played since Gen 1/2.

There was also some stink about linearity because the world map doesn't mask the straight path through to the league at all with its pokeball shape, in actuality it's pretty much business as usual and has plenty of optional side routes and locations with worthwhile exploration rewards.
Oh but I'm getting ahead of myself here, as you may have guessed from my tone, I thought these games were great at the time and felt that the blowback was full of exaggerations and a fear of any sort of shake up to the status quo despite the games being more of the usual iteration.
These entries did so much right in my eyes, the variety and spread of pokemon types was spot on once you crawled out of the slow start, each route or cave tended to have something new to catch right up until the endgame, they even tried harder with the story and NPCs.

Anyway, history vindicated me, Gen 6 arrived and then the people realised, you don't know what ya got until it's gone.
No point @ing me because I'm going to bed, Gen 5 rulez nerds and the poopy early reaction to it led Game Freak into a pit of nostalgia it can no longer escape from.

A5S9.gif

but it's okay, trubbish still loves you, even if you shunned him
 

kiich

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jan 2, 2018
774
I clearly remember how the community seemed to dislike BW/BW2. I too would like to know what happened since this is the only Pokémon gen I never played.

On a funny note I was just thinking yesterday how Final Fantasy 7 used to be hated early 2010s as well.
 

Lord Arcadio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,171
People were already praising Gen 5 during the Gen 6 era which is not enough time for nostalgia to kick in. Definitely not enough time for kids to grow up lmao. The Pokemon cycle theory is way off. We aren't seeing people talking about Gen 6 the same way Gen 5 gets talked about which we would expect if that theory were right.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
It's the Pokémon cycle
Happened to gen 4 and 3 too

This is absolutely nonsense. Gen III at the time was well-received even when kids started to move towards other franchises (Yu-Gi-Oh stands out). Gen IV was even more positively received due to being on the DS, even with its flaws (and I say this as someone who was already out of the Pokemon games by this time).

Gen V is the only Pokemon series that got lambasted by the fanbase.
 

MattB

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,902
Most people liked the story and the game they just didn't like that they could only use new Pokemon. Which is stupid. But it was never hated.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,525
We peaked at gen 5, specifically bw2. The arguments really did come down to Pokémon's designs half the time
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,211
People finally realized the Black & White games were the best and most polished games in the series.
 

Inukage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
430
Down Under
BW/BW2 as games are amazing, but in saying that Gen 5 has personally some of the most ugliest pokemon, but also some of the best designs its always been a mixed bag for me in terms of the monsters.


the bad:
632Durant.png
615Cryogonal.png
348-3486363_pokemon-munna.png


the good:

250px-560Scrafty.png
1200px-571Zoroark.png
250px-607Litwick.png


the best:

latest
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,261
People were already praising Gen 5 during the Gen 6 era which is not enough time for nostalgia to kick in. Definitely not enough time for kids to grow up lmao. The Pokemon cycle theory is way off. We aren't seeing people talking about Gen 6 the same way Gen 5 gets talked about which we would expect if that theory were right.
There has been a recent wave of positivity towards Gen 6 with that Thanos meme on social media.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,789
I probably spent too much time on Serebii.net forums back then defending the Pokemon designs.
I was 12 back then, good times. Thought the smooth battles and fully animated Pokemon sprites were gorgeous.

Didn't even get a chance to play through these freaking games til like two years ago though ;_; ... they are lovely. I'd love romhacks that shift the Gen IV games to the Gen V engine.
 

Ovvv

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 11, 2019
10,030
Honestly think the games look disgusting. It goes beyond just the Pokemon designs, too. Horrific art direction all around.
 

Kent

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
There are some fair criticisms to be had of it - like how extremely narrow-linear and low on exploration the games are.

But they're far outweighed, by a rather significant margin, by the things about them that were positively-received. Anecdotally-speaking, among all of the people I know that play Pokemon, I can't think of a single one that holds Gen V in a negative light, and some even say it's their favorite.

For me personally, it's just below Gen II (and the Gen IV remakes of Gold/Silver).
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
I still don't really like it.

The story is whack, the region never stuck with me, triple battles were a silly addition, and it's got the worst overall Pokémon additions of any gen. Also, the moving sprites suck. Already at that point diminishing returns was starting to settle in for Pokémon graphically since they weren't gonna actually do proper pixel animation on every single one. It's the gen I remember the least of.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,211
BW/BW2 as games are amazing, but in saying that Gen 5 has personally some of the most ugliest pokemon, but also some of the best designs its always been a mixed bag for me in terms of the monsters.


the bad:
632Durant.png
615Cryogonal.png
348-3486363_pokemon-munna.png


the good:

250px-560Scrafty.png
1200px-571Zoroark.png
250px-607Litwick.png


the best:

latest
Nah, Durant is great. Love that hard working ant.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,419
Phoenix, AZ
Honestly everything post-Gen5 being so bad made everyone nostalgic for it, or at least that played a major role.
 

Moara

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,833
I think a lot of it is just because of how much worse they got afterwards. I really can't see Sword and Shield getting the same treatment, unless we somehow haven't hit the lowest point yet. It's not like you see the XY games getting a lot of nostalgia lately.